| JzG, Simon Wessely, and claims of 'harassment' |
Mon 10th March 2008, 10:51am
Joined: Sun 30th Sep 2007, 8:05am
Member No.: 3,293
WP user page -
With regard to JzG:
I advocate for my daughter, first diagnosed with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, later Lyme disease, who is severely disabled by her illness. I also undertake academic criticism, of the claims made by some psychiatrists about these illnesses being ’psychosomatic’ and advocate for the ME/CFS community itself. Therefore, I do have a real world reputation that might be brought into disrepute by libellous, defamatory comments.
JZG made a number of defamatory (and libellous) claims about me (and implied others) on the admin notice board in September 2007 and elsewhere in time and place on Wikipedia, the circumstances of which are outlined here:http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/APK-PAPERS/message/19
Large sections of the Simon Wessely talk page had already been removed by Jim Wales himself in 2006, after I and my erstwhile colleague formally wrote to him demanding he remove comments, made by JzG and another admin, JFW, which were highly inflammatory towards us. He removed some of them (though I kept copies of what was said), but the two admins continued making similar comments over the course of about a year and a half on the talk page.http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=165865721
As is probably evident from these links, my problems with the conduct of JzG, and indeed Jimbo Wales, are these:
1. JzG's misrepresentation of me and my work in the open discussions to other admins, in particular defamatory and libellous claims he has made about me: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...of_userspace.3Fhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...scalate_this.3Fhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...0#Simon_Wessely
Of particular worry are the claims that I ‘have a visceral hatred for Simon Wessely’, the misrepresentation of the work I am doing in the real world, the claim that “You need to draw a distinction between what Angela Kennedy says, and what might be regarded as truth by anybody with both feet on the ground”, and, most libellous of all, his claim that ‘these individuals’ [meaning me and unnamed others] have harassed Wessely in real life: all of which have potentially highly damaging effects on my real world reputation.
2. JzG's (uninformed) conclusions on his website, and on the talk pages, that CFS is psychosomatic, Wessely’s work is correct, and that objections to Wessely’s claims are extreme, ideological etc. therefore making him a biased party in a dispute which he escalated (see the end paragraph of this link for his position):http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/Wesselygate
3. The placement of a "banned user" tag on my user page, which contravenes decency and privacy . The arbitrary wikipedia ‘justice’ is being used to tar people at the top of a google search. I was permanently banned by Wales himself.
4. Possible off-wiki engagement between JzG and the subject of the page, Simon Wessely, in such a way as to suggest a possible collusion, particularly around false claims that I have ‘personally harassed’ Simon Wessely (as per his comments here):http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...0#Simon_Wessely
(But also see here):http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/w/index.ph...changes&days=14
I have written to Simon Wessely’s line managers about this issue. So far they have been most uncooperative. The correspondence can be seen here:http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/APK-PAPERS/message/17
But the whole issue needs further investigation.
5. Off-wiki engagement with Jim Wales with prejudicial effects on me: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...scalate_this.3Fhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...of_userspace.3F
I appreciate this is a complex issue. I am willing to provide further evidence and answer questions on this issue where possible and appropriate.
Wed 16th April 2008, 2:42am
Known alias of J. Random Troll
Joined: Thu 28th Feb 2008, 1:03am
Member No.: 5,156
WP user page -
QUOTE(Kato @ Thu 13th March 2008, 4:19pm)
I don't understand how it is acceptable on the encyclopedia "anyone can edit" that someone can be blocked without breaking any "rules", for merely having a point of view that though mainstream and well documented, differed from JzG's.
And for the editor to then be mischaracterized as a "crank" and have their real name smeared by the sins of other people, after back room dealings between JzG, Jimbo Wales and a controversial government appointed figure.
And Wikipedia doesn't have a problem with that?
More than that-- as you see, Jimbo banned Angela Kennedy and One Click and people belonging to One Click, forever-and-ever from posting anything at all to Wikipedia. Refusing to give a reason, except that he had the power to do it, and had decided to do it. And forget the topic of CFIDS or whatever it is, that started this POV war. That's sort of irrelevant. What's relevant is the problem of epistemology which Kennedy had the temerity to lecture Jimbo on, and (even worse) to be right about. There's some really good stuff at:http://www.theoneclickgroup.co.uk/document...n%20Wessely.doc
Here's a quote from this link, in a letter Kennedy wrote to Jimbo 17 Nov 2005, before she was given the boot. See if you notice any themes here, which keep cropping up at WR in other contexts:
Dear Mr Wales,
Your email of 16th November 2005, in response to our valid concerns about your and others' conduct in recent days, exhibits breathtaking arrogance. The examples below, or your quotes within this latest email, betray the frankly woeful lack of knowledge you have about issues of neutrality and objectivity. You clearly use these terms as buzz words and appear to have no idea about how pure `neutrality' and `objectivity' are nearly almost impossible to achieve. With this in mind, most people dealing with this issue, for example, social science researchers, attempt to mitigate the problem by understanding that all knowledge is `situated' knowledge, and that all judgements come from a particular standpoint. This means that it is understood that no one can claim to be 100% "neutral" or "objective", and that there are always power struggles involved when someone claims to be `objective` (especially whilst engaging in partisan behaviour).
While One Click contributors DO understand the issue of situated knowledge and the problems around claims to objectivity and neutrality, and freely acknowledge an inevitable and legitimate `partisanship' on the political issues the group tackles, you have found yourself in a quandary, precisely because you appear to still be attempting to cling on to an untenable claim of objectivity, despite intervening on Simon Wessely's behalf, at his behest, approving of Wessely's `incensed' stance, and doing your best to attack the motives, integrity and knowledge of contributors to One Click. This is clearly partisan behaviour and cannot be defended as otherwise. You really cannot claim `neutrality' when you attack one side in a debate, as you clearly have.
However, you do not seem to let these things bother you. You have the audacity to accuse One Click contributors of having "behavioural problems" and of "libel" and of `lying`, neither of which you are correct about (and which themselves are defamatory comments, as have other comments you have made about One Click contributors in the past few days). You also are clearly, from your own comments in recent days and in your latest email, endeavouring to denigrate One Click and our part in ME/CFS politics and knowledge production.
Whatever your protest, you do appear to be exercising censorship in this issue, and it does appear invidious and insidious.
The letter goes on to give specifics about Jimbo's lack of NPOV. Which are precious. Because Jimbo genuinely seems to think that whatever POV he has at the moment, is an NPOV.
We've all been laughing about that for a long time at WR. This post has been edited by Milton Roe: Wed 16th April 2008, 2:44am
Posts in this topic
Angela Kennedy JzG, Simon Wessely, and claims of 'harassment' Mon 10th March 2008, 10:51am Kato Welcome to WR, Angela.
I touched upon this in a p... Mon 10th March 2008, 11:38am Jonny Cache Angela,
Thank you for a very interesting and deta... Mon 10th March 2008, 11:42am Kato It is the very public arbitrary JzG justice that f... Mon 10th March 2008, 11:49am WhispersOfWisdom Welcome Angela, and God bless. :) Mon 10th March 2008, 12:02pm Moulton Hi Angela,
Fifteen years ago, I met another Angel... Mon 10th March 2008, 12:33pm WhispersOfWisdom
Fifteen years ago, I met another Ange... Mon 10th March 2008, 1:01pm Kato Here's the statement from JzG that led to Ange... Mon 10th March 2008, 4:41pm badlydrawnjeff I know it's trendy to pile on JzG here - god k... Mon 10th March 2008, 6:39pm Kato
Woman gets banned for putting up a bunch of crap ... Mon 10th March 2008, 7:50pm wikiwhistle I assumed Neil was saying I was correct about the ... Mon 10th March 2008, 7:57pm Neil As I recall, this was one of the cases where Guy p... Mon 10th March 2008, 7:03pm Kato
As I recall, this was one of the cases where Guy ... Tue 11th March 2008, 12:04am wikiwhistle We will have to agree to disagree about M.E.
JzG ... Mon 10th March 2008, 7:23pm gomi The best words I was ever given as regards health ... Mon 10th March 2008, 8:07pm Neil Wikiwhistle - you're absolutely correct. I he... Mon 10th March 2008, 7:26pm wikiwhistle It's JzG's brain that needs an enema :) Mon 10th March 2008, 8:14pm Neil
I assumed Neil was saying I was correct about the... Mon 10th March 2008, 8:36pm Neil
[quote name='Neil' post='84883' date='Mon 10th Ma... Tue 11th March 2008, 1:43am Kato This pretty much sums up the attitude of the links... Tue 11th March 2008, 1:58am Angela Kennedy I enclose below the emails from Jim Wales to me ab... Tue 11th March 2008, 4:42pm wikiwhistle His and many people's position on ME, rightly ... Tue 11th March 2008, 2:12am Kato Again, I haven't a clue what you're talkin... Tue 11th March 2008, 2:37am Neil
The links Neil has put up, for example, are out o... Tue 11th March 2008, 5:36pm Angela Kennedy
How is the legal challenge against the NICE guid... Thu 13th March 2008, 3:36pm Angela Kennedy What's relevant is the problem of epistemolog... Wed 16th April 2008, 9:34am Moulton I have found Wikipedia a fertile ground for sociol... Wed 16th April 2008, 11:43am thekohser
This is my last email to him <Jimbo Wales> ... Wed 16th April 2008, 2:18pm Angela Kennedy Hi kohs, and everyone
Word of advice (not that... Sun 20th April 2008, 10:58am thekohser
Hi kohs, and everyone
But what I can't se... Mon 21st April 2008, 1:54am Angela Kennedy
I think in late July 2005, Wales was quoted by t... Mon 21st April 2008, 6:14am Angela Kennedy An Update:
From JzG’s response to his RfC:
htt... Mon 14th April 2008, 9:00pm thekohser
...I do wonder whether when he <JzG> uses t... Tue 15th April 2008, 7:02pm Angela Kennedy Hi thekohser,
Yes- actually that's a good p... Tue 15th April 2008, 8:25pm Kato I don't think there is any denying that JzG to... Tue 15th April 2008, 8:35pm Angela Kennedy Hi Kato
I don't think there is any denying t... Wed 16th April 2008, 9:01am Jon Awbrey
What do you expect from a bunch of Frozen In Da ... Wed 16th April 2008, 12:06pm dtobias Now he called me somebody who acts like "an o... Tue 15th April 2008, 11:13pm UseOnceAndDestroy
Now [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?titl... Tue 15th April 2008, 11:28pm tarantino
Now [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?titl... Tue 15th April 2008, 11:37pm Messedrocker
Now [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit... Fri 18th April 2008, 11:23pm Proabivouac
[quote name='tarantino' post='93152' date='Tue 15... Sat 19th April 2008, 6:51am Proabivouac Good heavens, this deserves quoting in full:
A v... Wed 16th April 2008, 12:52am Proabivouac
Now he called me somebody who acts like "an ... Wed 16th April 2008, 12:57am Moulton More evidence of the absence of a functional confl... Tue 15th April 2008, 11:53pm dtobias Well, at least I got a good user page header out o... Wed 16th April 2008, 12:46am Moulton TweedleDan and TweedleDum
He left off a second na... Wed 16th April 2008, 12:56am wikiwhistle
TweedleDan and TweedleDum
He left off a second n... Wed 16th April 2008, 1:35am Moulton See Stage 4 (Alienation and Scapegoating) in this ... Wed 16th April 2008, 1:04am thekohser Let's all not forget that JzG, after a 15-mont... Wed 16th April 2008, 2:02am Jon Awbrey What do you expect from a bunch of Frozen In Da Fi... Wed 16th April 2008, 2:56am Moulton See The Resistant Learner.
Compare the Resistant ... Wed 16th April 2008, 12:21pm Jon Awbrey
See [b][url=http://www.trainingplace.com/source/r... Wed 16th April 2008, 3:00pm Moulton If you ever go into therapy, you learn something a... Sat 19th April 2008, 12:27pm
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