Odd Nature has been personally attacked! Options Rating

[LaraLove]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wik...#User:Dragon695

Of course, Orangemarlin and Filll show up to defend. And Kelly arrives to take Dragon695's side. It's just the same faces everywhere. I would chime in, but it's just not worth it. Filll can misuse any link to attempt to paint the picture he wants, but I'm not sure there's much defense for

Ah! I see Odd Nature has shown up to solicit a round from the ID boo-hoo brigade, well I stand by my statement. You and the rest of those WP:TE members of the ID Cabal will either change your attitude or face the music, so don't think the whole OrangeClownFish affair gets you off the hook. My comments pale in comparison to how rude, loutish, and completely out of control some of the things you guys do to newbies and unrelated editors who show up at pages your "Wikiproject" WP:OWNs. The so-called scientists who claim to defend science are actually hurting those of us who really care about science. Real scientists are gentlemen and scholars, not oafs and louts. If anyone wants diffs, the Intelligent Design RFC is chock full of them. --Dragon695 (talk) 18:03, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Although, Filll and Orangemarlin are really the last people who should be chiming in dismayed at incivility. And I don't think they caught the Finding Nemo reference.

[Bob Boy]

Moulton, could you please refresh us on some of the real-world identities of some of the IDCab, particularly Jim62sch? Are they real scientists?

[Lar]

Moulton, could you please refresh us on some of the real-world identities of some of the IDCab, particularly Jim62sch? Are they real scientists?

Exactly why would it help matters to out people here who wish privacy? I'd rather not see that sort of thing. Regardless of whether you agree with them or not, regardless of whether they have been acting inappropriately. Do not sink to the level of those arrayed against you.

[Bob Boy]

Moulton, could you please refresh us on some of the real-world identities of some of the IDCab, particularly Jim62sch? Are they real scientists?

Exactly why would it help matters to out people here who wish privacy? I'd rather not see that sort of thing. Regardless of whether you agree with them or not, regardless of whether they have been acting inappropriately. Do not sink to the level of those arrayed against you.

I would normally agree, but that group is not above outing other people to achieve their goals - from what I recall, that's exactly what dragged Jim and Orangemarlin into arbitration before - weren't they outing people?

[Lar]

Moulton, could you please refresh us on some of the real-world identities of some of the IDCab, particularly Jim62sch? Are they real scientists?

Exactly why would it help matters to out people here who wish privacy? I'd rather not see that sort of thing. Regardless of whether you agree with them or not, regardless of whether they have been acting inappropriately. Do not sink to the level of those arrayed against you.

I would normally agree, but that group is not above outing other people to achieve their goals - from what I recall, that's exactly what dragged Jim and Orangemarlin into arbitration before - weren't they outing people?

You may well be right. But I nevertheless say " Do not sink to the level of those arrayed against you." YMMV of course and I wish you the best in any case.

[Winnie]

Incorporating past information, plus more:

http://www.naymz.com/search/james/schuler/1529055
James Edward Schuler (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jim62sch)
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - United States
Information Technology Specialist
Internal Revenue Service

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki.../123938?#123938
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki.../124291?#124291
http://www.naymz.com/search/paul/mitchell/1529043
http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul_Mitchell/641967390
Paul Mitchell (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Odd_nature, aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FeloniousMonk).
San Francisco, California - US, CMS Business Analyst, Macys.com
Odd nature signed a comment listed to 151.151.73.167, on 14 May, 2007, which WP states is registered to Wells Fargo & Company (and 151.151.21.104, on 30 April, 2007, also Wells Fargo, San Francisco). Paul Mitchell (same picture) worked for Wells Fargo from January 2007 — July 2007, which fits the timeframe! Even more curious, Odd nature also posted from Macy's during the time that Felonious works for Macy's) as 64.237.4.140 on 20 March 2008.
Felonious Monk signed a comment listed to 76.21.48.9, on 26 Jan, 2008, which was Comcast Cable Communications Inc.. Also, Felonious signed comments to 24.23.3.73, on 10 April, 2007, 5 April, 2007, and 4 April, 2008 which were also Comcast.
All Geolocate to the same area in California, including the Odd nature ones.
Also see Volunteer administrator, Wikimedia Foundation for Mitchell.

http://www.naymz.com/search/tracy/walker/1543269
Tracy E. Walker (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:KillerChihuahua)

http://www.naymz.com/search/ian/ramjohn/1543196 (note the myspace, facebook, and blog links)
http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/R/Ian.A.Ramjoh...Sept%202004.pdf
http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian_Ramjohn/9633096
Ian Ramjohn (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guettarda)
Norman, Oklahoma - United States
Ecologist

This post has been edited by Winnie: Fri 4th July 2008, 8:38pm

[Bob Boy]

Incorporating past information, plus more:

http://www.naymz.com/search/james/schuler/1529055
James Edward Schuler (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jim62sch)
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - United States
Information Technology Specialist
Internal Revenue Service

Given Jim62sch's history, maybe someone should drop a line to the IRS to ask if Jim is editing on company time.

[prospero]

Incorporating past information, plus more:

http://www.naymz.com/search/james/schuler/1529055
James Edward Schuler (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jim62sch)
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - United States
Information Technology Specialist
Internal Revenue Service

Given Jim62sch's history, maybe someone should drop a line to the IRS to ask if Jim is editing on company time.

I strongly oppose this. It is the same nonsense that led to NYB's leaving. While I want to see Jim change his ways as much as the next guy, let's keep speculation about using WP on "company time" out of it.

[The Joy]

Incorporating past information, plus more:

http://www.naymz.com/search/james/schuler/1529055
James Edward Schuler (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jim62sch)
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - United States
Information Technology Specialist
Internal Revenue Service

Given Jim62sch's history, maybe someone should drop a line to the IRS to ask if Jim is editing on company time.

I strongly oppose this. It is the same nonsense that led to NYB's leaving. While I want to see Jim change his ways as much as the next guy, let's keep speculation about using WP on "company time" out of it.

Confronting the ID Cabal (or any cabal for that matter) by honorable means has failed, though. You can't get rid of corrupted people like Jim62sch with all his friends, some of whom are administrators.

The most frustrating thing about Wikipedia is that we can see the corruption, and we document the corruption clearly here. They are not like SlimVirgin covering her tracks, they are blatantly showing off their arrogance and bullying. What's worse, the WP Community does nothing about it and dispute resolution does nothing. These people use the rules as weapons and shields, claiming their opponents must adhere to them while they disregard the rules when it pleases them with no fear of consequences. How can you fight dishonorable men by honorable means? I disagree with Daniel Brandt's methods (certainly so in the NYB incident), but what other choices do aggrieved Wikipedians or members of the public have except shaming them by off-wiki means?

[LaraLove]

Confronting the ID Cabal (or any cabal for that matter) by honorable means has failed, though. You can't get rid of corrupted people like Jim62sch with all his friends, some of whom are administrators.

The most frustrating thing about Wikipedia is that we can see the corruption, and we document the corruption clearly here. They are not like SlimVirgin covering her tracks, they are blatantly showing off their arrogance and bullying. What's worse, the WP Community does nothing about it and dispute resolution does nothing. These people use the rules as weapons and shields, claiming their opponents must adhere to them while they disregard the rules when it pleases them with no fear of consequences. How can you fight dishonorable men by honorable means? I disagree with Daniel Brandt's methods (certainly so in the NYB incident), but what other choices do aggrieved Wikipedians or members of the public have except shaming them by off-wiki means?

All very true points, but I agree with dogbiscuit. The chances of something terrible happening may seem low, but it's still a possibility. Look at what happened to Alison. Rare thing, surely (at least I hope), but I know the feeling of having your real name and city up on a site that is considered an attack site. It's a worrisome feeling, particularly when you've got enemies, and this (ID) group is certainly not lacking any of those. There's no positive advantage to advertising such personal information. It doesn't encourage anything helpful. I think it is probably more productive to shame them by on-wiki means until enough people open their eyes and decide to do something about it. The ID group issues are coming to the community's attention now. Give it time. They've got a hell of a lot more eyes on their contribs now than they did before. The group may be powerful, but they can only ward off so many enemies before they find themselves overcome. Their own edits will bury them eventually.

[Moulton]

All very true points, but I agree with dogbiscuit. The chances of something terrible happening may seem low, but it's still a possibility. Look at what happened to Alison. Rare thing, surely (at least I hope), but I know the feeling of having your real name and city up on a site that is considered an attack site. It's a worrisome feeling, particularly when you've got enemies, and this (ID) group is certainly not lacking any of those. There's no positive advantage to advertising such personal information. It doesn't encourage anything helpful. I think it is probably more productive to shame them by on-wiki means until enough people open their eyes and decide to do something about it. The ID group issues are coming to the community's attention now. Give it time. They've got a hell of a lot more eyes on their contribs now than they did before. The group may be powerful, but they can only ward off so many enemies before they find themselves overcome. Their own edits will bury them eventually.

I, for one, have no intention of contacting anyone's employers. The employment information, which the ID editors freely disclosed on Naymz, is only of interest in that it ties into the IPs that geolocate those posting on my blog, visiting my website, etc.

Nor do I propose to shame them. I have solid scientific evidence that the practice of shaming and blaming is iatrogenic — ineffective at best and counter-productive at worst. Moreover, shaming and blaming has been found to be the single most salient cause of subsequent acts of violence. I have no interest in engaging in a practice that triggers some people into violent reactions.

Nope.

I propose to discover how to get those miserable miscreants in the Idiotic ID Cabal to laugh at themselves and repent of their frenetically frumious folly.

We've only just begun.

Just when I thought you couldn't get worse, you start quoting The Carpenters at us

LOL

As you have requested, I'll have your song parody ready just as soon as I can find Barsoom Tork and get him working on it.

Now where the bloody hell did that Martian wander off to?

What does he think this is? A national holiday or something?

Dammit, Barsoom! We have work to do.

Harrumph.

I'll have to send Montana Mouse out to find him.