Odd Nature has been personally attacked! Options Rating

[Moulton]

You may well be right. But I nevertheless say " Do not sink to the level of those arrayed against you." YMMV of course and I wish you the best in any case.

I understand where you're coming from. I generally subscribe to the goose/gander school, myself.

The core issue is how to deal with the PotKettleBlack/Tu Quoque/Hypocrisy of Filll, FeloniousMonk, Odd nature, OrangeMarlin, Blueboy96, and KillerChihuahua applying double standards, whereby the same act is an unforgivably egregious hanging offense if an adversarial editor does it, but a shoulder-shrugging, excusable, no big deal if one of their own tribe does it.

[Bob Boy]

You may well be right. But I nevertheless say " Do not sink to the level of those arrayed against you." YMMV of course and I wish you the best in any case.

I understand where you're coming from. I generally subscribe to the goose/gander school, myself.

The core issue is how to deal with the PotKettleBlack/Tu Quoque/Hypocrisy of Filll, FeloniousMonk, Odd nature, OrangeMarlin, Blueboy96, and KillerChihuahua applying double standards, whereby the same act is an unforgivably egregious hanging offense if an adversarial editor does it, but a shoulder-shrugging, excusable, no big deal if one of their own tribe does it.

I think that Mutual assured destruction is a good applied philosophy here - it worked in the Cold War. Any Wikipedia user who engages in outing should be willing to accept the consequence of being outed themselves.

[Winnie]

Incorporating past information, plus more:

http://www.naymz.com/search/james/schuler/1529055
James Edward Schuler (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jim62sch)
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - United States
Information Technology Specialist
Internal Revenue Service

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki.../123938?#123938
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki.../124291?#124291
http://www.naymz.com/search/paul/mitchell/1529043
http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul_Mitchell/641967390
Paul Mitchell (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Odd_nature, aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FeloniousMonk).
San Francisco, California - US, CMS Business Analyst, Macys.com
Odd nature signed a comment listed to 151.151.73.167, on 14 May, 2007, which WP states is registered to Wells Fargo & Company (and 151.151.21.104, on 30 April, 2007, also Wells Fargo, San Francisco). Paul Mitchell (same picture) worked for Wells Fargo from January 2007 — July 2007, which fits the timeframe! Even more curious, Odd nature also posted from Macy's during the time that Felonious works for Macy's) as 64.237.4.140 on 20 March 2008.
Felonious Monk signed a comment listed to 76.21.48.9, on 26 Jan, 2008, which was Comcast Cable Communications Inc.. Also, Felonious signed comments to 24.23.3.73, on 10 April, 2007, 5 April, 2007, and 4 April, 2008 which were also Comcast.
All Geolocate to the same area in California, including the Odd nature ones.
Also see Volunteer administrator, Wikimedia Foundation for Mitchell.

http://www.naymz.com/search/tracy/walker/1543269
Tracy E. Walker (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:KillerChihuahua)

http://www.naymz.com/search/ian/ramjohn/1543196 (note the myspace, facebook, and blog links)
http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/R/Ian.A.Ramjoh...Sept%202004.pdf
http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian_Ramjohn/9633096
Ian Ramjohn (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guettarda)
Norman, Oklahoma - United States
Ecologist

This post has been edited by Winnie: Fri 4th July 2008, 8:38pm

[Moulton]

Three of them have pictures up, variously on Facebook, their blog sites, homepages, etc.

Meantime, Filll is still something of a mystery. We know he's in Maryland, somewhere near Gambrills (about 50 miles NW of Washington DC).

His unusual handle is about all we have to go on.

Take a look at this page...

http://www.loveaccess.com/personals/filll

Is this our Filll?

How many of the details match what we know? Are any of the details suggestive of a mismatch or mistaken identity?

Moulton

This post has been edited by Moulton: Fri 4th July 2008, 6:36pm

[Winnie]

How many of the details match what we know?

Plausible.

"I am a research scientist. I study climate."

[Moulton]

How many of the details match what we know?

Plausible.

"I am a research scientist. I study climate."

Bowie MD is one of the locations where NOAA/NCEP (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration / National Centers for Environmental Prediction) has some of their data processing facilities.

Filll does make claims about being experienced with climate models, although his claims are challenged as unsupported via any citations or credentials.

This post has been edited by Moulton: Fri 4th July 2008, 7:15pm

[Proabivouac]

Odd nature (Paul Mitchell) works at Macy's San Francisco Operations Center.

Moulton, can you recap as briefly as possible how we know that Odd nature is Paul Mitchell?

[Bob Boy]

Incorporating past information, plus more:

http://www.naymz.com/search/james/schuler/1529055
James Edward Schuler (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jim62sch)
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - United States
Information Technology Specialist
Internal Revenue Service

Given Jim62sch's history, maybe someone should drop a line to the IRS to ask if Jim is editing on company time.

[Winnie]

Odd nature (Paul Mitchell) works at Macy's San Francisco Operations Center.

Moulton, can you recap as briefly as possible how we know that Odd nature is Paul Mitchell?

Odd nature signed a comment listed to 151.151.73.167, on 14 May, 2007, which WP states is registered to Wells Fargo & Company. Paul Mitchell worked for Wells Fargo from January 2007 — July 2007, which fits the timeframe and is one of the more damning pieces of evidence, if circumstantial (see links in my other post, above).

This post has been edited by Winnie: Fri 4th July 2008, 7:29pm

[Milton Roe]

How many of the details match what we know?

Plausible.

"I am a research scientist. I study climate."

Bowie MD is one of the locations where NOAA/NCEP (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration / National Centers for Environmental Prediction) has some of their data processing facilities.

Filll does make claims about being experienced with climate models, although his claims are challenged as unsupported via any citations or credentials.

Yeah, he says he's in physics and applied math, and that could be weather modeling. Would mean he's not a biologist. Says he's not an atheist-- one presumes that since he's interested in things like censers (religious incense generator-- See Botafumeiro which Filll worked on), that he's either RC, or just interested in smokes and hazes (atmospheric aerosols) or both. Skype interview of him by Durova: http://durova.blogspot.com/2008/04/interview-with-filll.html

This post has been edited by Milton Roe: Fri 4th July 2008, 7:47pm

[thekohser]

Incorporating past information, plus more:

http://www.naymz.com/search/james/schuler/1529055
James Edward Schuler (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jim62sch)
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - United States
Information Technology Specialist
Internal Revenue Service

Given Jim62sch's history, maybe someone should drop a line to the IRS to ask if Jim is editing on company time.

I nominate Durova. It's one of her specialties.

[prospero]

Incorporating past information, plus more:

http://www.naymz.com/search/james/schuler/1529055
James Edward Schuler (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jim62sch)
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - United States
Information Technology Specialist
Internal Revenue Service

Given Jim62sch's history, maybe someone should drop a line to the IRS to ask if Jim is editing on company time.

I strongly oppose this. It is the same nonsense that led to NYB's leaving. While I want to see Jim change his ways as much as the next guy, let's keep speculation about using WP on "company time" out of it.

[Moulton]

Odd nature (Paul Mitchell) works at Macy's San Francisco Operations Center.

Moulton, can you recap as briefly as possible how we know that Odd nature is Paul Mitchell?

We don't know it for a fact. What we know for a fact is:

1. Blogger Skip posts from Macy's San Francisco Operations Center
   
2. Odd nature protests the disclosure of that revelation
   
3. Blogger Skip from Macys chides me for it again, at length, on Larry Fafarman's blog
   
4. FeloniousMonk cites it as Arbcom Evidence against Moulton
   
5. feloniousmonk.wikipedia@gmail.com signs his post to Foundation-l as Paul Mitchell, Felonious Monk

If you read those items of evidence closely, you will see that I had only identified Blogger Skip as posting from an IP at Macys San Francisco Operations Center. When Skip and FM posted their objections, they each stated that the blogger in question was not just posting from Macys, but was an employee. Up until that point, I held out the possibility that Skip may have been a customer posting from a WiFi hotspot at an Internet Cafe at Macy's flagship store in Union Square.

We don't have enough evidence to prove that Odd nature and Felonious Monk are one and the same. We only have enough evidence to establish that Odd nature, Blogger Skip, and FeloniousMonk are tightly connected to Paul Mitchell through the above linkages.

Separately, you have the on-Wiki evidence of User:B showing other statistical linkages suggesting that one person may be operating both accounts.

I have not studied the on-wiki evidence and analysis of User:B to determine how probative it is of the sockpuppet theory.

However, the weaker meatpuppet theory seems to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[Moulton]

How many of the details match what we know?

Plausible. "I am a research scientist. I study climate."

Bowie MD is one of the locations where NOAA/NCEP (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration / National Centers for Environmental Prediction) has some of their data processing facilities.

Filll does make claims about being experienced with climate models, although his claims are challenged as unsupported via any citations or credentials.

Yeah, he says he's in physics and applied math, and that could be weather modeling. Would mean he's not a biologist. Says he's not an atheist-- one presumes that since he's interested in things like censers (religious incense generator-- See Botafumeiro which Filll worked on), that he's either RC, or just interested in smokes and hazes (atmospheric aerosols) or both. Skype interview of him by Durova: http://durova.blogspot.com/2008/04/interview-with-filll.html

See also Filll's older version of his About Me subpage...

About me

I know a little. I am a research scientist. I have a few graduate degrees. I have a background in physics and mathematics and mathematical physics. I am from Canada originally and live outside of Washington DC. I speak a little English and even less French.

I am not too enthusiastic about letting people attack science. I have fairly strong religious views but I do not advertise them; I am not an atheist, although I am often accused of being one.

See also his recent blog post about what he is or isn't.

[The Joy]

Incorporating past information, plus more:

http://www.naymz.com/search/james/schuler/1529055
James Edward Schuler (aka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jim62sch)
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - United States
Information Technology Specialist
Internal Revenue Service

Given Jim62sch's history, maybe someone should drop a line to the IRS to ask if Jim is editing on company time.

I strongly oppose this. It is the same nonsense that led to NYB's leaving. While I want to see Jim change his ways as much as the next guy, let's keep speculation about using WP on "company time" out of it.

Confronting the ID Cabal (or any cabal for that matter) by honorable means has failed, though. You can't get rid of corrupted people like Jim62sch with all his friends, some of whom are administrators.

The most frustrating thing about Wikipedia is that we can see the corruption, and we document the corruption clearly here. They are not like SlimVirgin covering her tracks, they are blatantly showing off their arrogance and bullying. What's worse, the WP Community does nothing about it and dispute resolution does nothing. These people use the rules as weapons and shields, claiming their opponents must adhere to them while they disregard the rules when it pleases them with no fear of consequences. How can you fight dishonorable men by honorable means? I disagree with Daniel Brandt's methods (certainly so in the NYB incident), but what other choices do aggrieved Wikipedians or members of the public have except shaming them by off-wiki means?

[dogbiscuit]

Given Jim62sch's history, maybe someone should drop a line to the IRS to ask if Jim is editing on company time.

I strongly oppose this. It is the same nonsense that led to NYB's leaving. While I want to see Jim change his ways as much as the next guy, let's keep speculation about using WP on "company time" out of it.

I hope that was idle musing by Bob Boy. Such idle comments allow people to characterise our efforts here as an attack site as bad as Wikipedia is. It also makes it harder to get one of the honest check user operators to act upon the evidence as it can be characterised on wiki as an off-site attack.

I have no issue with a bit of investigation on people's identities as a means of understanding their behaviour which in this tight knit group seems appropriate. There is a big difference between discovering conflicts of interest and using private information as a means of attack or coercion.

[Winnie]

Odd nature signed a comment listed to 151.151.73.167, on 14 May, 2007, which WP states is registered to Wells Fargo & Company. Paul Mitchell worked for Wells Fargo from January 2007 — July 2007, which fits the timeframe and is one of the more damning pieces of evidence, if circumstantial (see links in my other post, above).

Ah, even more curious, not only does Odd nature post from Wells Fargo during the time period that Paul Mitchell, self-confirmed as Felonious Monk, work for Wells Fargo, but Odd nature also posted from Macy's during the time that Felonious works for Macy's. Odd nature used IP 64.237.4.140 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:64.237.4.140) on 20 March 2008 (and 64.237.4.140 on 10 June, 2008, also Macy's)! That's not just damning, that's damned damning.

Also, Felonious admitted he was outed, "Like Naymz... the site WR used to out me and 3 others."

This post has been edited by Winnie: Fri 4th July 2008, 8:56pm

[LaraLove]

Confronting the ID Cabal (or any cabal for that matter) by honorable means has failed, though. You can't get rid of corrupted people like Jim62sch with all his friends, some of whom are administrators.

The most frustrating thing about Wikipedia is that we can see the corruption, and we document the corruption clearly here. They are not like SlimVirgin covering her tracks, they are blatantly showing off their arrogance and bullying. What's worse, the WP Community does nothing about it and dispute resolution does nothing. These people use the rules as weapons and shields, claiming their opponents must adhere to them while they disregard the rules when it pleases them with no fear of consequences. How can you fight dishonorable men by honorable means? I disagree with Daniel Brandt's methods (certainly so in the NYB incident), but what other choices do aggrieved Wikipedians or members of the public have except shaming them by off-wiki means?

All very true points, but I agree with dogbiscuit. The chances of something terrible happening may seem low, but it's still a possibility. Look at what happened to Alison. Rare thing, surely (at least I hope), but I know the feeling of having your real name and city up on a site that is considered an attack site. It's a worrisome feeling, particularly when you've got enemies, and this (ID) group is certainly not lacking any of those. There's no positive advantage to advertising such personal information. It doesn't encourage anything helpful. I think it is probably more productive to shame them by on-wiki means until enough people open their eyes and decide to do something about it. The ID group issues are coming to the community's attention now. Give it time. They've got a hell of a lot more eyes on their contribs now than they did before. The group may be powerful, but they can only ward off so many enemies before they find themselves overcome. Their own edits will bury them eventually.

[Moulton]

Ah, even more curious, not only does Odd nature post from Wells Fargo during the time period that Paul Mitchell, self-confirmed as Felonious Monk, work for Wells Fargo, but Odd nature also posted from Macy's during the time that Felonious works for Macy's. Odd nature used IP 64.237.4.140 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:64.237.4.140) on 20 March 2008! That's not just damning, that's damned damning.

And again, on May 6th at the Rosalind Picard talk page.

Confronting the ID Cabal (or any cabal for that matter) by honorable means has failed, though. You can't get rid of corrupted people like Jim62sch with all his friends, some of whom are administrators.

It has not yet succeeded, but I'm not ready to say that's it's categorically failed.

The most frustrating thing about Wikipedia is that we can see the corruption, and we document the corruption clearly here. They are not like SlimVirgin covering her tracks, they are blatantly showing off their arrogance and bullying. What's worse, the WP Community does nothing about it and dispute resolution does nothing. These people use the rules as weapons and shields, claiming their opponents must adhere to them while they disregard the rules when it pleases them with no fear of consequences. How can you fight dishonorable men by honorable means? I disagree with Daniel Brandt's methods (certainly so in the NYB incident), but what other choices do aggrieved Wikipedians or members of the public have except shaming them by off-wiki means?

This is where the rubber meets the road. This is where we creatively solve the long-unsolved problem, and do so in an honorable and ethical manner.

Stayed tuned.

We've only just begun.

[dogbiscuit]

We've only just begun.

JUst when I thought you couldn't get worse, you start quoting The Carpenters at us