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> Useful page for deciphering RfA !votes
Kelly Martin
post Tue 15th July 2008, 2:24pm
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QUOTE(guy @ Tue 15th July 2008, 1:06pm) *

QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Tue 15th July 2008, 12:24pm) *

The RFA process is undoubtedly a mess – lest we forget, it used to look like this

Ah yes, much more civilised then. It's still like that on some of the minor wikis.
It's amusing looking over those old admins and noting "Hey, there's Stevertigo, who got desysoped in a rather ugly way"; "Ah, RickK, the sockpuppeting sysop" (it's been conclusively proven now that Zoe and RickK are the same person, although the proof is not widely known); and of course Alex756, aka Alex Roshuk, who is well-known for leaving Wikipedia in a huff when Jimmy & Co. dememberized the Foundation.
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Eva Destruction
post Tue 15th July 2008, 2:35pm
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Tue 15th July 2008, 3:24pm) *

QUOTE(guy @ Tue 15th July 2008, 1:06pm) *

QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Tue 15th July 2008, 12:24pm) *

The RFA process is undoubtedly a mess – lest we forget, it used to look like this

Ah yes, much more civilised then. It's still like that on some of the minor wikis.
It's amusing looking over those old admins and noting "Hey, there's Stevertigo, who got desysoped in a rather ugly way"; "Ah, RickK, the sockpuppeting sysop" (it's been conclusively proven now that Zoe and RickK are the same person, although the proof is not widely known); and of course Alex756, aka Alex Roshuk, who is well-known for leaving Wikipedia in a huff when Jimmy & Co. dememberized the Foundation.

RickK, as in "Poster boy of the automated tools brigade" RickK?

This post has been edited by Eva Destruction: Tue 15th July 2008, 2:37pm
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Kelly Martin
post Tue 15th July 2008, 3:06pm
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QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Tue 15th July 2008, 2:35pm) *
That's the one. Also known as User:Zoe. We long suspected that Zoe and RickK were one and the same, but had no proof, until recently. It's a moot point as Zoe hasn't edited since February 2007. If Rick is still around, he's editing under some other account that is, as of yet, not known to anyone other than him.
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thekohser
post Tue 15th July 2008, 5:01pm
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QUOTE(Alex @ Tue 15th July 2008, 6:01am) *

This page shows precisely what a joke RfA is. Why can't it just be a straight vote, with no comments? It would certainly remove a lot of the nastiness.


Wikipedia wouldn't serve its purpose, then, to be the world's largest revenge platform.
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Giggy
post Tue 15th July 2008, 11:24pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 16th July 2008, 3:01am) *

QUOTE(Alex @ Tue 15th July 2008, 6:01am) *

This page shows precisely what a joke RfA is. Why can't it just be a straight vote, with no comments? It would certainly remove a lot of the nastiness.


Wikipedia wouldn't serve its purpose, then, to be the world's largest revenge platform.

Yes, and hundreds of people would have nothing left to do.
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michael
post Wed 16th July 2008, 1:49am
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Tue 15th July 2008, 8:06am) *

QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Tue 15th July 2008, 2:35pm) *
That's the one. Also known as User:Zoe. We long suspected that Zoe and RickK were one and the same, but had no proof, until recently. It's a moot point as Zoe hasn't edited since February 2007. If Rick is still around, he's editing under some other account that is, as of yet, not known to anyone other than him.


Seriously? RickK was Zoe? How as this proof obtained? Did he admit to it, or what?
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everyking
post Wed 16th July 2008, 3:28am
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Tue 15th July 2008, 4:06pm) *

QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Tue 15th July 2008, 2:35pm) *
That's the one. Also known as User:Zoe. We long suspected that Zoe and RickK were one and the same, but had no proof, until recently. It's a moot point as Zoe hasn't edited since February 2007. If Rick is still around, he's editing under some other account that is, as of yet, not known to anyone other than him.


I'd like to know more about this proof. I've always maintained RickK was one of the worst admins in WP history, but his legacy is much vaunted by some. A convincing display of evidence that he was engaged in such severe sockpuppetry would help in deflating the myth that such highly aggressive and unilateral admins can be a positive force.
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Kelly Martin
post Wed 16th July 2008, 4:38am
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QUOTE(everyking @ Tue 15th July 2008, 10:28pm) *
I'd like to know more about this proof. I've always maintained RickK was one of the worst admins in WP history, but his legacy is much vaunted by some. A convincing display of evidence that he was engaged in such severe sockpuppetry would help in deflating the myth that such highly aggressive and unilateral admins can be a positive force.
The RickK and Zoe accounts both have the same password, and that password may be readily guessed from knowing RickK's email address, which is itself can be discovered with only moderate difficulty after analyzing some of Rick's comments on the wiki.

Technically, since RickK and Zoe never overlapped editing, it's not abusive sockpuppetry as defined by Wikipedia.
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Giggy
post Wed 16th July 2008, 4:46am
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You mean he made his password the same (or similar) to his email address? O.o
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everyking
post Wed 16th July 2008, 6:40am
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Wed 16th July 2008, 5:38am) *

QUOTE(everyking @ Tue 15th July 2008, 10:28pm) *
I'd like to know more about this proof. I've always maintained RickK was one of the worst admins in WP history, but his legacy is much vaunted by some. A convincing display of evidence that he was engaged in such severe sockpuppetry would help in deflating the myth that such highly aggressive and unilateral admins can be a positive force.
The RickK and Zoe accounts both have the same password, and that password may be readily guessed from knowing RickK's email address, which is itself can be discovered with only moderate difficulty after analyzing some of Rick's comments on the wiki.

Technically, since RickK and Zoe never overlapped editing, it's not abusive sockpuppetry as defined by Wikipedia.


How did you come to learn that they have the same password? Who did all this research? I don't see how this proof can be substantiated. Given my interactions with Rick, it's easy for me to believe that he was up to something like this, but given my interactions with you, it's hard for me to believe you about anything. I just realized something that makes me think you're telling the truth, though: Rick and Zoe were both extremely touchy about having Jimbo's approval. Zoe left the project over that, and I believe Rick threatened to. It may have been the reason he left as well; I don't quite remember. He claimed something about vandals being respected and good contributors being maligned, but since he constantly abused good contributors I doubt that was the real reason.
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Kelly Martin
post Wed 16th July 2008, 11:40am
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QUOTE(everyking @ Wed 16th July 2008, 1:40am) *
How did you come to learn that they have the same password? Who did all this research? I don't see how this proof can be substantiated.
I am not going to discuss how we found this out, or who was involved in the research. It could be substantiated by logging into both accounts with the common password, but I'm not enough of a fool to post the password to a Wikipedia admin account on Wikipedia Review, or give it to you privately.

Eventually, I would imagine, someone with a brain over in Wikiland will see this and decide to suspend both accounts as the security risk they are, but until they do...

This post has been edited by Kelly Martin: Wed 16th July 2008, 11:42am
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Kelly Martin
post Wed 16th July 2008, 2:50pm
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Wed 16th July 2008, 6:40am) *
Eventually, I would imagine, someone with a brain over in Wikiland will see this and decide to suspend both accounts as the security risk they are, but until they do...
Thatcher emailed me asking for the password. I, of course, declined to tell him. He could try emailing RickK and/or Zoe; both accounts are email-enabled, after all (different addresses, too, which kinda surprised me, but Zoe's account is a Yahoo freebie).

This post has been edited by Kelly Martin: Wed 16th July 2008, 2:51pm
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Daniel
post Wed 16th July 2008, 3:41pm
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It really didn't require a demonstration, but oh well. Both accounts desysopped and blocked.
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Newyorkbrad
post Wed 16th July 2008, 3:46pm
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Wed 16th July 2008, 11:40am) *

QUOTE(everyking @ Wed 16th July 2008, 1:40am) *
How did you come to learn that they have the same password? Who did all this research? I don't see how this proof can be substantiated.
I am not going to discuss how we found this out, or who was involved in the research. It could be substantiated by logging into both accounts with the common password, but I'm not enough of a fool to post the password to a Wikipedia admin account on Wikipedia Review, or give it to you privately.

Eventually, I would imagine, someone with a brain over in Wikiland will see this and decide to suspend both accounts as the security risk they are, but until they do...


Publicizing this information in this way was highly inappropriate.
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Kelly Martin
post Wed 16th July 2008, 3:49pm
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QUOTE(Newyorkbrad @ Wed 16th July 2008, 10:46am) *
Publicizing this information in this way was highly inappropriate.
Probably. However, as Thatcher was more than willing to tell me in email, nobody in Wikiland would have believed me anyway:
QUOTE
So you expect some steward to take your word for it, or you hope someone will figure it out and get up to mischief in order to get the accounts blocked or something?
Tell me, Newyorkbrad, have you known me to lie?

This post has been edited by Kelly Martin: Wed 16th July 2008, 3:50pm
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Newyorkbrad
post Wed 16th July 2008, 3:51pm
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Wed 16th July 2008, 3:49pm) *

QUOTE(Newyorkbrad @ Wed 16th July 2008, 10:46am) *
Publicizing this information in this way was highly inappropriate.
Probably. However, as Thatcher was more than willing to tell me in email, nobody in Wikiland would have believed me anyway:
QUOTE
So you expect some steward to take your word for it, or you hope someone will figure it out and get up to mischief in order to get the accounts blocked or something?
Tell me, Newyorkbrad, have you known me to lie?

No. Incidentally, that second quote is not my writing. If it's an unauthorized quotation from a private e-mail, I would consider that inappropriate as well.

This post has been edited by Newyorkbrad: Wed 16th July 2008, 3:53pm
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Kelly Martin
post Wed 16th July 2008, 3:56pm
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QUOTE(Newyorkbrad @ Wed 16th July 2008, 10:51am) *
No. Incidentally, that second quote is not my writing. If it's an unauthorized quotation from a private e-mail, I would consider that inappropriate as well.
It is an unauthorized quotation from an private e-mail (from Thatcher, as the text of my post indicates, although apparently not clearly enough; I tried to make the bbcode mark it as being Thatcher but I apparently fail at bbcode), and I don't care terribly much if you think it's inappropriate, as I'm sure you are already well aware. smile.gif
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Newyorkbrad
post Wed 16th July 2008, 3:58pm
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Wed 16th July 2008, 3:56pm) *

QUOTE(Newyorkbrad @ Wed 16th July 2008, 10:51am) *
No. Incidentally, that second quote is not my writing. If it's an unauthorized quotation from a private e-mail, I would consider that inappropriate as well.
It is an unauthorized quotation from an private e-mail (from Thatcher, as the text of my post indicates, although apparently not clearly enough; I tried to make the bbcode mark it as being Thatcher but I apparently fail at bbcode), and I don't care terribly much if you think it's inappropriate, as I'm sure you are already well aware. smile.gif


I think I am getting a taste of what life would have been like had we been in the Cabal at the same time. smile.gif
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Kelly Martin
post Wed 16th July 2008, 4:06pm
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QUOTE(Newyorkbrad @ Wed 16th July 2008, 10:58am) *
I think I am getting a taste of what life would have been like had we been in the Cabal at the same time. smile.gif
Who knows, maybe you would have talked some sense into me, or vice versa.

As I said to Thatcher: "I have no real incentive to go out of my way to help Wikipedia; you've systematically treated me like shit for long enough that you have no expectation of anything other than arms-length dealings."
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Rootology
post Wed 16th July 2008, 4:08pm
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Stupid question, but--what bit of publicized information was inappropriate, Brad? I'm assuming you mean the semi-vague instructions on how to find the RickK/Zoe password, assuming someone with a clue hasn't already changed it for security reasons, and not the fact the two accounts may be one and the same person? If it was a sock relationship why would that disclosure be inappropriate? Things like that are routinely disclosed...
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