that keeps locking up both of the browsers that I normally use, so I had to suggest a change of venue for further proceedings. I don't know how that will go over.
At any rate, I will just store a copy of the discussions so far on this page, for future reference, in case something inadvertent happens.
===Jon Awbrey and JonAwbrey===
{{usersummary|Jon Awbrey}}
{{UserSummary|JonAwbrey}}
• Creates userpages full of external links (and selfpromotion references?) on many wikis. [[User:Annabel|Annabel]] 19:08, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
====Discussion § 1====
• Inserting § break for the sake of my poor old browser. [[User:JonAwbrey|JonAwbrey]] 16:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
• I placed the same vita on my user page that I use on all the sites where I contribute work and discuss ideas with other interested parties. This does not constitute SPAM (= "unsolicited mass-mailing or posting") in any technical or COI sense of the word. I would appreciate the two variants of my real name that I use on the Internet and Web not being listed on any kind of badlists. Thank you, [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 19:12, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
• While it may not be [[wikt:spam|spam]], it would seem to be abuse of WMF wikis & as such unwanted. While community members are given leeway with their userpages, such excessive linking is generally frowned upon. Furthermore, I very much doubt you understand all the languages you have posted this to, nor are you active in those wikis. I invite you to fix the problem before it is done for you. The history at enwiki will be of interest to others reviewing this. '''— [[User:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">Mike</b>]].[[User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">lifeguard</b>]]''' | <sup>[[b:User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<span style="color:#309;">@en.wb</span>]]</sup> 19:36, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
• I would appreciate it if you could point to the relevant WMF Terms of Service, or even a generally accepted standard of etiquette that would justify your calling this user page vita an "Abuse". I am referring to the one now posted here at Meta, which is a copy of the one deleted by Annabel from my Nederlands User Page. By "generally accepted standard of etiquette" I mean one that you could honestly assure me is followed across the board on all WMF User Pages. In addition, I have never seen any notice of Wikipedias being "Encyclopedias that anyone who is fluent in the local language can edit" — but please let me know if I have missed such a restriction somewhere. [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 20:22, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
• You misunderstand me crucially. I do not say you need to be fluent in the languages where you contribute. To claim that would be hypocritical; I edit all WMF wikis. The issue is that:
• You are not an established member of the community on any wiki where you have a userpage (so far as I can tell).<br>
• Your userpage has an excessive amount of links (indeed, links form the only content, and they appear to be placed for self-promotional purposes). This would perhaps be an issue regardless of the above.
</blockquote></blockquote>
• [[User:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">Mike</b>]].[[User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">lifeguard</b>]]''' | <sup>[[b:User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<span style="color:#309;">@en.wb</span>]]</sup> 20:31, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
• Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think it is customary for newcomers to any of the many-tongued Wikipædiæ to be subjected to the ordeals of this type of entrance exam with regard to the legitimacy of their participation. However, By FYIing my real name, educational background, and ongoing intellectual interests, I have certainly done more than the avarage Anon IP on that score.
• Many people post pics on their user pages as a way of providing a friendly introduction to themselves, their current interests, and their personal histories. My old web vita harks back to a day when I was unsure about the propriety of copying pics, so I used links instead, over the years being forced to replace many of them with WayBak links. You can hardly dream that I am collecting revenue off archival links like that, can you?
• If and when you personally discover an interest in some of the Active Suggestions Concerning Intellectual Interchange that I enumerated in my web vita — which was my sole purpose in posting it to my NL User Page — then we may find more interesting things to talk about. In the mean time, I can hardly become an "established member of the community on any wiki", much less learn a few bits of the local colour and language, if some Admin deletes my self-introductory user page and blocks my account after the first few edits, now can I? [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 23:45, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
• Jon, this same sort of Wikilawyering nonsense is what got you banned from enWP and booted from the mailing list. Obviously your rampant sockpuppetry and disruption ensures you remain banned on enWP. I would be the first to help you if you wanted [[:en:Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Jon_Awbrey|your massive list of socks]] associated with some other name, to reduce the impact on you, but I don't see why we should help you to pretend that you are here to do anything other than the usual: self-promotion and idiosyncratic original research. [[User:JzG|JzG]] 20:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
• Still placing pages - en wq in the past few hours. Cheers --[[User:Herbythyme|<font color="green">Herby</font>]] <b><sup><small><span style="color:#90F">[[User talk:Herbythyme|talk thyme]]</span></small></sup></b> 08:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
• This is shameless self-promotion, and I would suggest that someone who has the necessary rights removes the pages from all projects on which he is not an active participant. [[User:JzG|JzG]] 11:44, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
• So, the following links are the ones being used for vanity spamming here:
<pre>
planetmath.org/encyclopedia/DifferentialPropositionalCalculus.html
www.wikipediareview.com/Directory:Jon_Awbrey
www.wikipediareview.com/User:Jon_Awbrey
www.wikipediareview.com/User_talk:Jon_Awbrey
http://planetmath.org/?op=getuser&id=15246knol.google.com/k/-/-/3fkwvf69kridz/1
mathforum.org/kb/accountView.jspa?userID=99854
www.mathweb.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey
www.mathweb.org/wiki/User_talk:Jon_Awbrey
www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/?q=Awbrey
www.p2pfoundation.net/User:JonAwbrey
www.p2pfoundation.net/User_talk:JonAwbrey
altheim.4java.ca/ceryle/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=JonAwbrey
forum.wolframscience.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=336
www.wikinfo.org/index.php/User:Jon_Awbrey
www.wikinfo.org/index.php/User_talk:Jon_Awbrey
www.getwiki.net/-User:Jon_Awbrey
www.getwiki.net/-UserTalk:Jon_Awbrey
ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?JonAwbrey
semanticweb.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey
semanticweb.org/wiki/User_talk:Jon_Awbrey
wikipediareview.com/index.php?showuser=5619
wikipediareview.com/index.php?showuser=398
zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey
zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jon_Awbrey
org.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/8/2/269
www.cspeirce.com/menu/library/aboutcsp/awbrey/integrat.htm
www.chss.montclair.edu/inquiry/fall95/awbrey.html
www.abccommunity.org/tmp-a.html
www2.oakland.edu/secs/dispprofile.asp?Fname=Fatma&Lname=Mili
www2.oakland.edu/secs/dispprofile.asp?Fname=Mohamed&Lname=Zohdy
www2.oakland.edu/oakland/ouportal/index.asp?site=87
www.msu.edu/dig/msumap/psychology.html
www.msu.edu/dig/msumap/beaumont.html
quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/image/image-idx?id=S-BHL-X-BL001808%5DBL001808
www.uiuc.edu/navigation/buildings/altgeld.top.html
www.mth.msu.edu/images/wells_medium.jpg
www.msu.edu/dig/msumap/phillips.html
www.enolagaia.com/JMC.html
</pre>
====Discussion § 2====
• I would like to add a comment. As long as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elonka_Dunin this page] edited by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Elonka this user] multiple times on the English Wikipedia still exists, we look absolutely foolish trying to suppress a passive list of vitae links from a USER page, for heaven's sake. No surprise. Given the opportunity to choose two paths, Wikimedians will select the most backward, stupid-looking one. -- [[User:Thekohser|Thekohser]] 18:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
• To my knowledge, Elonka has not [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elonka_Dunin&action=history edited] her article in a long time; this was a big issue in her several RfAs and she's been severely criticized for this before. If I'm wrong and there remains an ongoing issue with coi edits, let me know. Thanks, --<font face="Futura">[[User:A. B.|A. B.]] [[User talk:A. B.|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] </font> 18:58, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
• Given the variety of links, and that several may well have legitimate uses, I'm going to remove the links. Pushing links is inappropriate regardless of the namespace. '''— [[User:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">Mike.lifeguard</b>]]''' | <sup>[[User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<span style="color:#309;">talk</span>]]</sup> 19:09, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
• Well, [http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=User:Jon_Awbrey&diff=prev&oldid=319658 I] was [http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=User:Jon_Awbrey&diff=next&oldid=319658 pointedly reverted] on English Wikiversity. I did attempt an explanation in irc, but that was equally-pointedly rebuffed. Relevant on-wiki discussion is on [http://en.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mike.lifeguard&oldid=1273349#Wikiversity_edit English Wikibooks]. Perhaps someone else would take that on. '''— [[User:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">Mike.lifeguard</b>]]''' | <sup>[[User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<span style="color:#309;">talk</span>]]</sup> 00:05, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
• Comment: I see JonAwbrey has reverted quite a number of linkremovals on userpages. --[[User:Beetstra|Dirk Beetstra]] <sup>[[User_Talk:Beetstra|<span style="color:#0000FF;">T</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Beetstra|<span style="color:#0000FF;">C</span>]]</sup> (en: [[:en:User:Beetstra|U]], [[:en:User talk:Beetstra|T]]) 13:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
• More userpages on enwikquote, eswiki, fiwiki, kowiki, ruwiki on top of the reverts. '''— [[User:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">Mike.lifeguard</b>]]''' | <sup>[[User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<span style="color:#309;">talk</span>]]</sup> 14:38, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
• See also a discussion between Moulton and Jon Awbrey on [http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jon_Awbrey&oldid=320343 Wikiversity], which seems to contain a threat. '''— [[User:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">Mike.lifeguard</b>]]''' | <sup>[[User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<span style="color:#309;">talk</span>]]</sup> 14:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
• Mr. Lifeguard, given your acknowledgement that the material in question is not "SPAM", I think that further discussion on this so-called "spam blacklist" page is no longer relevant. So I would like to request, once again, that you remove the listing of my usual Internet names from this page. Thanks in advance, [[User:JonAwbrey|JonAwbrey]] 17:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
• It may or may not be spam. To me it certainly is abuse of the facilities that are enjoyed by users provided by the Foundation. Your contributions to many projects are zero other than your overlinked user page. --[[User:Herbythyme|<font color="green">Herby</font>]] <b><sup><small><span style="color:#90F">[[User talk:Herbythyme|talk thyme]]</span></small></sup></b> 18:02, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
• Your statements are incorrect. Since you appear genuinely interested, I can give you a list of contributions to several projects that may not show up in your cursory scans. For instance, you are probably missing the contributions that come by way of interwiki translations of articles that I wrote for the English Wikipedia. These contributions are, in my humble opinion quite substantial. Indeed, it was in following the search engine traces of these translations that I was brought to many of those non-anglophone Wikipedias. [[User:JonAwbrey|JonAwbrey]] 18:26, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
• As for the rest, surely you must have some sense of how silly it would sound to say that a person cannot be allowed to contribute unless he or she is already an established contributor? Surely? [[User:JonAwbrey|JonAwbrey]] 18:26, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
• Fortunately you are entitled to your opinion & I to mine. Wikis are about collaborative working with consensus among folk - your view would seem at odds with some others and not to be particularly collaborative in their approach. Personally I'm inclined to consider blacklisting the links as I see the excessive linkage to be outside the scope of most projects.
• There is nothing silly about suggesting that someone whose only contribution to a project is a personal page which is out of scope is not effectively contributing. I delete many such pages most days. --[[User:Herbythyme|<font color="green">Herby</font>]] <b><sup><small><span style="color:#90F">[[User talk:Herbythyme|talk thyme]]</span></small></sup></b> 18:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
====Discussion § 3====
• The page you provide, with all the links, is IMHO mainly there as a linkfarm. It does not tell about you, what expertise you have, no, it only lists external links to your other identities. As such, it is more promotional (especially since all these pages will show up in e.g. Google searches ([http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=Jon+Awbrey&num=100&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 here]). If you translate things to English, then it is not needed to have a userpage on another language, that userpage is only useful if you actually contribute ''there''). As you create the same userpage with all such links everywhere, a single link to one single 'main' userpage would suffice, this serves no purpose and also I regard this as a misuse of facilities provided by the Foundation (except where local encourage such linking, which, if I see it correctly, is ''only'' true on Wikiversity). --[[User:Beetstra|Dirk Beetstra]] <sup>[[User_Talk:Beetstra|<span style="color:#0000FF;">T</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Beetstra|<span style="color:#0000FF;">C</span>]]</sup> (en: [[:en:User:Beetstra|U]], [[:en:User talk:Beetstra|T]]) 09:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
• Thinking this through I think the idea that this user should be the sole determinant of both their user page content, and what is on this page, is plain wrong. If they insist on having these links on their user pages then I think it completely correct that this section remains here for the community to consider the position, & this may lead to blacklisting of the links. In passing I also note that they are now blocked on en wp having ''exhausted the community's patience''. I suggest that we may need to consider this view on other wikis too. Thanks --[[User:Herbythyme|<font color="green">Herby</font>]] <b><sup><small><span style="color:#90F">[[User talk:Herbythyme|talk thyme]]</span></small></sup></b> 11:31, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
• Let's back up, slow down a bit, and let me see if I can figure out what the handful of people who are commenting on this page are really concerned about. If you want to move the discussion to my meta talk page that might be nice, as I keep getting warning messages from my browser about "non-responsive scripts" on this page that are really bogging down my ability to read and edit it. [[User:JonAwbrey|JonAwbrey]] 11:44, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
• I think the problem is here, that the user made a linkpage in his usernamespace not only where he is active, but spread it on many wikis, I doubt anyone would have said anything if he had it on the 2 or 3 wikis he is active. But adding it to many wikis and doing that only there, sorry, is spam, not the links itselves, but the mass adding.
• I hope that clarifies the problem. I regret that the user got blocked on some wikis for that already, I believe he should just replace the userpage on the other wikis with a link to his main userpage, that would be sufficient if anyone really wants to look at his userpage and request unblock on the wikis where he got blocked.
• Best regards, --[[User:Spacebirdy|<font color="black">birdy</font> <font color="gray"><small>geimfyglið</small></font>]] [[User_talk:Spacebirdy|<sub><font color="teal">(:> )=|</font></sub>]] 15:49, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
• I will have to be doing some other work for a while. I am breaking this into sections for the sake of my browser and so I don't fall too far behind. I'm still not clear why anyone would refer to my standard self-introduction to a language-based or project-based wiki as a "self-promotion" in the COI sense of the word, much less a "linkfarm". I was led to most of those web sites because my name was already mentioned there in connection with some English Wikipedia article or other page that was refernced or translated there. As far as being a "link farm", I just don't get that at all. I refer people to sites and papers that I am currently working on, as do many other people in all of the wikis that I have seen. I was given to understand that WMF uses "no follow" tags, so no bots follows those links. As I have explained a couple of times before, I have used that same vita for many years as a standard self-introduction. Many people illustrate their user pages with MegaByte animations, graphics, and pics — I have always preferred to use simple links to pictures instead, partly for byteage and partly for copyright reasons. That's what the Web is for, remember? Many of these pages and pics are so old now that they can only be found in the WebArchive. I am certainly not getting any promotional considerations for any of them. [[User:JonAwbrey|JonAwbrey]] 19:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
• Please see the note on my [[User_talk:Jon Awbrey|talk page]]. Both my browsers keep jamming up on this page, so this will have to be my last posting here. [[User:JonAwbrey|JonAwbrey]] 00:04, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
BADSITES Goes Global, Meta-Wikimedia Spam Badlist
Tue 9th September 2008, 5:35pm
