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> Moulton blocked on WV by Jimbo, !!!
Rootology
post Sun 14th September 2008, 7:23pm
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http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?titl...=User%3AMoulton

http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity..._for_incivility

QUOTE
Block of Moulton for incivility

After discussion with other admins, in which I was requested to personally make this block, I have indef blocked Moulton from this project. It is my belief that he was not here in a good faith effort to create learning materials, but rather was here to carry out his ongoing campaign against people who he thinks treated him unfairly at Wikipedia. After reviewing his case at Wikipedia, I think this is clearly not the case: he was properly blocked at Wikipedia, and should be blocked on sight from any Wikimedia project where he surfaces with a similar agenda.

I would recommend that a significant number of the attack pages be deleted, and the project protected at least for now, pending a good community discussion of what something like this should look like.

There are always difficult growing pains for young commuities; I have seen it in many languages and many projects. I encourage Wikiversity to review the "ethics" project - which, it seems to me could be an interesting project if handled appropriately - with an eye towards developing principles for dealing with such projects in the future. One idea that I would like to propose is an explicit ban on "case studies" using real examples of non-notable people, in exchange for hypotheticals. I would also like to encourage you to consider clarifying the scope of Wikiversity to make it more clear that it is not a place for people to come and build attack pages in the guise of learning materials.

In any event, I hope that my action here will be viewed as helpful. I did not act quickly, but only after discussion with important people, and only after hearing that 3 bureaucrats support this action. It is not my intention to be the "God King" of Wikiversity, although I do request that this block only be overturned upon a very careful consideration of the possible implications for the future of the project.

The first major internal conflict and ban is always tough. My thoughts are with you, and I wish you well.--Jimbo Wales 19:18, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
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Ottava
post Sun 14th September 2008, 7:31pm
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I just had all parties agree to a three day work exercise for Moulton followed by a peer review process in order to discuss community issues and the rest.

Sigh.

Don't I have the best luck with timing.

If he would have only done this a day or two before, I wouldn't have wasted so many hours putting together all the necessary parts.
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the fieryangel
post Sun 14th September 2008, 7:41pm
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Sun 14th September 2008, 7:31pm) *

I just had all parties agree to a three day work exercise for Moulton followed by a peer review process in order to discuss community issues and the rest.

Sigh.

Don't I have the best luck with timing.

If he would have only done this a day or two before, I wouldn't have wasted so many hours putting together all the necessary parts.


I wrote about the "Moulton" aspects of this situation on the other thread. But the Jimbo aspects are quite another thing: he's not a Godking, but he's going to be one just this once? And although he's not a GodKing, Moulton is effectively "banished from the realm"?

Constitutional Monarch, Jimbo? Do they banish people?

This is rather a radical turn of events, in any case...
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Ottava
post Sun 14th September 2008, 7:59pm
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QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Sun 14th September 2008, 7:41pm) *

I wrote about the "Moulton" aspects of this situation on the other thread. But the Jimbo aspects are quite another thing: he's not a Godking, but he's going to be one just this once? And although he's not a GodKing, Moulton is effectively "banished from the realm"?

Constitutional Monarch, Jimbo? Do they banish people?

This is rather a radical turn of events, in any case...


We do not know who the "three bureaucrats" were. We do not know who he was talking to. As many people have said, they saw this coming. Jimbo has the ability to move between projects based on his special status, so he was a likely person to turn to.

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dtobias
post Sun 14th September 2008, 8:03pm
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QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Sun 14th September 2008, 3:41pm) *
Constitutional Monarch,[/i] Jimbo? Do they banish people?


I remember as a kid on my first trip outside the United States, to Canada, I actually had some concerns after seeing that the coins of that country featured a Queen, given that my past experience with queens was dominated by Alice in Wonderland's Queen of Hearts, who was prone to yelling "Off with your head!"... I really thought that when visiting a country with a queen, you were in constant risk of having her see you in the street, decide she doesn't like you, and have you executed.

----------------
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Shalom
post Sun 14th September 2008, 8:13pm
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Sun 14th September 2008, 3:59pm) *

QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Sun 14th September 2008, 7:41pm) *

I wrote about the "Moulton" aspects of this situation on the other thread. But the Jimbo aspects are quite another thing: he's not a Godking, but he's going to be one just this once? And although he's not a GodKing, Moulton is effectively "banished from the realm"?

Constitutional Monarch, Jimbo? Do they banish people?

This is rather a radical turn of events, in any case...


We do not know who the "three bureaucrats" were. We do not know who he was talking to. As many people have said, they saw this coming. Jimbo has the ability to move between projects based on his special status, so he was a likely person to turn to.


There are only five bureaucrats on Wikiversity. Of the "three bureaucrats" involved, SB Johnny and Cormaggio are almost certainly two, as they support the ban later in the discussion. The other might be either Mu301 or Erkan Yilmaz. Sebmol has been inactive since May 2008.

Except for SB Johnny, I don't recognize any of these names.
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wikiwhistle
post Sun 14th September 2008, 8:19pm
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QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Sun 14th September 2008, 8:41pm) *


I wrote about the "Moulton" aspects of this situation on the other thread. But the Jimbo aspects are quite another thing: he's not a Godking, but he's going to be one just this once? And although he's not a GodKing, Moulton is effectively "banished from the realm"?

Constitutional Monarch, Jimbo? Do they banish people?

This is rather a radical turn of events, in any case...


As an aside, a similar thing took place with the block of Peter Damian. I don't know what Moulton's edits were like on WV, but it seems a shame as I thought he was getting on a lot better with the editors there than at WP.
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Ottava
post Sun 14th September 2008, 8:22pm
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QUOTE(Shalom @ Sun 14th September 2008, 8:13pm) *

There are only five bureaucrats on Wikiversity. Of the "three bureaucrats" involved, SB Johnny and Cormaggio are almost certainly two, as they support the ban later in the discussion. The other might be either Mu301 or Erkan Yilmaz. Sebmol has been inactive since May 2008.

Except for SB Johnny, I don't recognize any of these names.


The definition of support can mean a lot of things, so lets not focus too heavily on this. The community knew about some problems Jimbo was having with Moulton weeks ago.

This post has been edited by Ottava: Sun 14th September 2008, 8:23pm
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Peter Damian
post Sun 14th September 2008, 8:28pm
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This is better than Harold Pinter.

QUOTE

My theory of the source of our differences is that it's the basic science vs politics dichotomy, which also manifests as the observation vs control dichotomy (in feedback control theory), as the functions vs rules dichotomy (as in systems theory), and as the candor vs hypocrisy dichotomy (as in theology). In other words, if I say, "Be ye not deceived," and you respond, "How can we get to the ground truth?", I answer "By means of the protocols of the scientific method and the tools of epistemology." If you ask, "How may we resolve a conflict?", I respond "By applying the techniques of Action Research and Conflict Resolution, as proposed by subject-matter experts in those fields." But I cannot compel my antagonist to become a scholar if his preference is to be a thespian. But if his preference is to be a thespian, then I propose to apply the analytical tools of Drama Theory to study the resulting lunatic social drama. —Moulton 06:27, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Is someone going to do something to stop this from continuing, or should one expect to be subject to repeated and unending personal attacks at this project? Salmon of Doubt 12:24, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Would you like to enter into a mutually agreeable Social Contract, setting forth mutually agreeable terms of engagement? —Moulton 13:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

No. Salmon of Doubt 13:16, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Salmon, if you don't respond to him, than he will probably leave you alone. You could spend your time in a different way here on Wikiversity.--Daanschr 14:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I will return to my policy of ignoring everything he writes. Salmon of Doubt 14:18, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


This post has been edited by Peter Damian: Sun 14th September 2008, 8:29pm
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Moulton
post Mon 15th September 2008, 12:47am
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This is got to be an embarrassment for WMF.

Jimbo Wales' sole contribution to Wikiversity since its inception:
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Milton Roe
post Mon 15th September 2008, 12:50am
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QUOTE(Moulton @ Sun 14th September 2008, 5:47pm) *

This is got to be an embarrassment for WMF.

Jimbo Wales' sole contribution to Wikiversity since its inception:


Well, what the hell did you expect him to do, write articles on quantum mechanics? It's Jimbo.
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GlassBeadGame
post Mon 15th September 2008, 12:53am
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QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Sun 14th September 2008, 6:50pm) *

QUOTE(Moulton @ Sun 14th September 2008, 5:47pm) *

This is got to be an embarrassment for WMF.

Jimbo Wales' sole contribution to Wikiversity since its inception:


Well, what the hell did you expect him to do, write articles on quantum mechanics? It's Jimbo.


That is funniest thing you ever wrote Milton. Congrats Moulton, an unjust personal block from Mr. Wales deserves a place on your CV.
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The Joy
post Mon 15th September 2008, 1:20am
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And yet another case where the independence of Foundation projects from non-community individuals like Jimbo proves to be an illusion. mad.gif
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Shalom
post Mon 15th September 2008, 1:28am
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If I were a Wikiversity admin/custodian, why would I want to invite Jimbo to block one of my users? Wikinews and Wikibooks dumped Jimbo as an admin; Wikiversity just accepted him.
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Ottava
post Mon 15th September 2008, 2:01am
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QUOTE(Shalom @ Mon 15th September 2008, 1:28am) *

If I were a Wikiversity admin/custodian, why would I want to invite Jimbo to block one of my users? Wikinews and Wikibooks dumped Jimbo as an admin; Wikiversity just accepted him.



As a Wikiversity custodian, I was a little taken by surprised by the timing. Moulton was just about to enter into a three day focus on an editing project and then enter into a "peer review" discussion to help build trust between him and others of the community, including some that he had conflicts with before. I was given approval by the other custodians to continue this on his talk page.
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Shalom
post Mon 15th September 2008, 2:40am
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Sun 14th September 2008, 10:01pm) *

QUOTE(Shalom @ Mon 15th September 2008, 1:28am) *

If I were a Wikiversity admin/custodian, why would I want to invite Jimbo to block one of my users? Wikinews and Wikibooks dumped Jimbo as an admin; Wikiversity just accepted him.



As a Wikiversity custodian, I was a little taken by surprised by the timing. Moulton was just about to enter into a three day focus on an editing project and then enter into a "peer review" discussion to help build trust between him and others of the community, including some that he had conflicts with before. I was given approval by the other custodians to continue this on his talk page.


When Jimbo does things like this on Wikipedia we can say he's out of touch, but at least he shows up every once in a blue moon. This was completely out of left field. If I were you, Ottava, I'd feel betrayed by admins who with one hand promoted mediation and with the other hand banned the guy you were trying to help.
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everyking
post Mon 15th September 2008, 5:42am
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They should unblock Moulton, tell Jimbo to butt out of their community affairs, and then make their own decision about how to handle Moulton. Jimbo apparently wasn't even aware of the circumstances, as indicated by Ottava's comments, and was probably just pursuing somebody else's grudge against Moulton.
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gomi
post Mon 15th September 2008, 6:36am
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Sun 14th September 2008, 12:31pm) *
If [Jimbo] would have only done this a day or two before, I wouldn't have wasted so many hours ...

Now perhaps you'll realize: all time spent on Wikipedia and related project is wasted!
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Giggy
post Mon 15th September 2008, 10:55am
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QUOTE(Moulton @ Mon 15th September 2008, 10:47am) *

This is got to be an embarrassment for WMF.

Jimbo Wales' sole contribution to Wikiversity since its inception:


Despite my not usually being a fan of Jimbo's using his monarch powers to ban people, I must say his contributions to Wikiversity have been more valuable than yours.

QUOTE(everyking @ Mon 15th September 2008, 3:42pm) *

They should unblock Moulton, tell Jimbo to butt out of their community affairs, and then make their own decision about how to handle Moulton. Jimbo apparently wasn't even aware of the circumstances, as indicated by Ottava's comments, and was probably just pursuing somebody else's grudge against Moulton.

The correct thing to do, even if they told Jimbo to butt out, would still be to block Moulton for pretty much the reasons given by Jimbo.
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Moulton
post Mon 15th September 2008, 11:08am
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QUOTE(Giggy @ Mon 15th September 2008, 6:55am) *
The correct thing to do, even if they told Jimbo to butt out, would still be to block Moulton for pretty much the reasons given by Jimbo.

QUOTE(Hammurabi of Babylonia)
1. If any one ensnare another, putting a ban upon him, but he can not prove it, then he that ensnared him shall be put to death.

The above is the very first written law in the history of human civilization, written by Hammurabi of Babylonia, some 3750 years ago.

It is now up to Jimbo Wales to come to Wikiversity and submit his evidence, reasoning, and analysis to the Assembled Community for scientific, journalistic, and judicial peer review, in accordance with Wikiversity Policy.
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