The Durin Saga, The most evil admin I ever met Options

[SpatzelL]

I’m curious if anyone else ever had encounters with a Wikipedia administrator named “Durin” who has since retired from the site and also if anyone has information about who this person really was. I’ve heard various reports from a 30s something man to a little old woman in Ohio. Regardless of who Durin was, I came to the conclusion that he or she had some very serious personality problems and was taking Wikipedia extremely seriously to the point of “hunting down” people in the real world to continue disputes that started on that website.

Here’s my own story about Durin. I first encountered this person about three years ago when Durin visited my user page on Wikipedia and purged it of all pictures and photographs claiming it was a violation of “fair use”. Durin did this without warning, without discussion, and without comment. Durin had annoyed many people with these types of actions (and I think it was very rude and unprofessional to hack others user pages like that) but claimed he was totally justified under Wikipedia regulations and didn’t have time to explain himself to each and every user whose user page he decided to alter without their permission.

So advance the clock about a year when I tried to work with this person and explain where my images were coming from. At first things went smooth but Durin began demanding more and more specific information, including information about personal photographs I had taken with my family. The proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back was when Durin asked for the home address and phone number of my ex-finance and also wanted to get in touch with people who knew a deceased member of my family who appeared in some of the pictures.

Amazingly, the Wikipedia admins backed up Durin and this led into a series of accusations that most (if not all) of the pictures I had uploaded to Wikipedia were either stolen or I was lying about the source. Advance the clock another year and now Durin decided to launch an all out attack against my very presence on Wikipedia. Durin created a special sub-page of his user area devoted to the image problems I had caused on Wikipedia. That I could live with but then came a series of incidents where Durin contacted real world government agencies in an attempt to conduct a background investigation on who I was in the real world. Eventually, I got e-mails from two city manager’s office telling me (with concern) that someone was asking their offices for information about me and this was followed by strange calls to my own office also trying to find out more information about who I was. (Durin denied any knowledge of this but I knew it was him).

The final item where we parted company was where Durin began sending e-mails to me about how I was in serious trouble and I should think about the safety of my family. I contacted Wikipedia directly (in person) and demanded his attack page against me be deleted (which it was) and then Durin an e-mail telling him to NEVER mention my family in an e-mail or Wikipedia post again. I should also add that by this time Durin was accusing anyone who defended me of being a sockpuppet and in one case he virtually ran a new user off of Wikipedia with harassing messages and challenges of each and every edit the person made (that person was also threatened by another user and the Wikipedia admins did not ban or block the offender) becuase he believed that person was me even though ip address traces proved that it wasn't.

Durin eventually left Wikipedia since he had apparently pissed off a large number of other people and now his user page says he retired due to legal threats against him. The final e-mail I got was a message that Durin would see me in court if I tried to press charges against him for making comments about my family. I have not heard from him since.

Has anyone else had encounters with this individual? I can say with no remorse that Durin was about the most sinister, underhanded, evil administrator I have ever come across on Wikipedia. Worse than that, he had an army of followers and almost became a bureaucrat. His own actions against me were one of the reasons he didn’t, thank goodness.

[Alex]

Why exactly were you uploading pictures of your family? It's an encyclopedia, not a photohost.

I also know exactly who Durin is. Not that I'd think of telling you.

[SpatzelL]

I also know exactly who Durin is. Not that I'd think of telling you.

I wouldnt expect for anyone to ever give me a name or an address or anything like that. And, at this stage, I dont have any deep hatred toward Durin nor would I want to see any harm come to him or her. I was actually suprised on another post that SlimV's real name was put out but I think it was already out there before it was posted to this site.

[Somey]

I wouldnt expect for anyone to ever give me a name or an address or anything like that. And, at this stage, I dont have any deep hatred toward Durin nor would I want to see any harm come to him or her.

Just as well - he/she probably lives in Detroit, or someplace equally objectionable.

Anyway, just so we're clear on this: You asked Durin (T-C-L-K-R-D) to post (or send privately) URL's, artist/photographer citations, or other provenance information, for the images he claimed were not yours, and he did not? And he also did not tell you what sort of evidence he supposedly had to back up his assertions that the images were not yours?

Did he send you anything at all, other than vaguely-worded "instructions" on how to "defend your copyrights"...?

[SpatzelL]

Anyway, just so we're clear on this: You asked Durin (T-C-L-K-R-D) to post (or send privately) URL's, artist/photographer citations, or other provenance information, for the images he claimed were not yours, and he did not? And he also did not tell you what sort of evidence he supposedly had to back up his assertions that the images were not yours?

Did he send you anything at all, other than vaguely-worded "instructions" on how to "defend your copyrights"...?

The typical scenario would be Durin would find an image I uploaded and state it was not fair use or a copyright violation. I would then provide information about where it came from, who gave it to me, and the permission they gave me to use it on Wikipedia. Durin would then want contact information for the original source. If this was given, Durin would state that the original source was wrong and didnt know what they were talking about and the image was still a violation of some Wikipedia policy. In short...Durin wouldnt take no for an answer once he had made up his mind that an image didnt belong on Wikipedia.

An example of this would be:

1)I post "Image of House"
2) Durin says "Image of House" violates Wikipedia image policy and puts a tag on it to speedy delete
3) I would remove the tag and post "Image of a house is public domain per Mr. Smith who owns the photograph since he took it"
4) Durin would put the tag back and say he needed contact information for Mr. Smith
5) Assuming Mr. Smith woudint mind such information being given out, I would provide such information (usually an e-mal) to Durin
6) Durin would then post "Mr Smith is wrong. The image is not public domain and is still a violation." The delete tag would then go back up and Durin would threaten a block for violating Wikipedia policy if I dared remove it again.

What made this very ridiculous is that in some cases "Mr. Smith" would be a photography studio, the public affairs office of a major company who dealt with copyright law, or in at least one case, an actual copyright lawyer. But Durin would simply proclaim he knew more than these people and even with phone numbers, e-mails, and in one case a letter from the person saying the image was public...Durin would proclaim this was all wrong.

Now...I should say in those early days (2003, etc) I didnt know a lot about the image policies and some of my images were badly sourced. The discussions between me and Durin werent the problem. The problem happened when Durin created a private attack page and listed every image I had ever uploaded to Wikpedia and called them all copyright violations. What threw this over the edge was where Durin would actually contact people outside of Wikipedia, claim that his page was an offical policy page of the site, and use it as "evidence" that I was some kind of copyright image stealing criminal. Durin denies that part of the story, but by my count he counted two city governments, one law enforcement agency, and my employer using his page as a weapon. That page was deleted when I contacted Wikipedia myself.

Durin eventually publically posted that I was a liar and a threat to the project and after that the first e-mail came in about my family. Things went really south from there I guess the hardcore smoking gun evidence of all this would be the attack page which Wikipedia thankfully deleted or the e-mails from Durin which I have since deleted (they are now over a year behind me and really scared my wife which is why I deleted them and never saved them).

I'm also knew here and am a bit afraid to broadcast what my Wikipedia user ID was for fear of retaliation (I half expect Durin to show up any minute and write a seven page essay about how evil and wrong I am). But, I am studying the regs of this site and may post some of this later.

This is a great forum, by the way, I am very impressed. It was helpful for me to write this here and get some of it off my cheast- on Wikipedia if I had typed a word of this I would have been called a liar and a troll and would have been banned at once. Its good that others are as disenchanted with that site as I am.

[EricBarbour]

The problem happened when Durin created a private attack page and listed every image I had ever uploaded to Wikpedia and called them all copyright violations. What threw this over the edge was where Durin would actually contact people outside of Wikipedia, claim that his page was an offical policy page of the site, and use it as "evidence" that I was some kind of copyright image stealing criminal. Durin denies that part of the story, but by my count he counted two city governments, one law enforcement agency, and my employer using his page as a weapon. That page was deleted when I contacted Wikipedia myself.

Damn. You've been screwed in a manner similar to Brandt but even more blatantly. This is quite extreme, even for the "cabalistas". Normally they would be a lot sneakier.

Durin eventually publically posted that I was a liar and a threat to the project and after that the first e-mail came in about my family. Things went really south from there I guess the hardcore smoking gun evidence of all this would be the attack page which Wikipedia thankfully deleted or the e-mails from Durin which I have since deleted (they are now over a year behind me and really scared my wife which is why I deleted them and never saved them).

Seriously, I think your wife overreacted. One thing I've learned about WP nerds is that they are a physically weak and cowardly lot. I would not be surprised if Durin was a skinny 15-year old kid with acne and no friends.

If only there were a copy of the attack page, it would be hardcore evidence, and many people here would find it useful for their own disputes.

I'm also new here and am a bit afraid to broadcast what my Wikipedia user ID was for fear of retaliation (I half expect Durin to show up any minute and write a seven page essay about how evil and wrong I am).

Again, you need not worry. WR is a far more honest and equable place, and if that troll comes here to make childish threats, there will be many people to support you.

This is a great forum, by the way, I am very impressed.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[SpatzelL]

Thanks all for the kind encouragement and welcoming nature to this forum. I think I will give this 2-3 weeks, see who shows up about that, then post another thread giving all the links and Wiki diffs that show the full story of what happened.

I am guessing that this information can later be used to show how corrupt a site Wikipedia is? The fact that soemone like Durin, who was stalking and harrrassing people in the real world over images just to prove that he was "right", was a highly respected admin who almost became a bueracrat...that really blows imagination.

I also am wondering, once word of this gets out, if Durin will show up here with his side of the story which I'm sure paints me as an incredible evil vandal who was trying to destroy Wikipedia. I admit, I wasnt the best person at times and did once use a sockpuppet (only once). The matter is also clouded that during the entire Durin affair another Wikipedia user accussed me of threatening to kill her. This was unrelated to the Durin events but Durin did eat up on it and showed up to testify at the ArbCom regarding this. I should add the ArbCom said I didnt threaten to kill her but didnt say a word against her for posting all over the internet that very serious lie.

In the end, that person left Wikipedia and I believe she had some very serious mental problems. At the time, I was in another country about 4000 miles away from her home in England yet, after the Wikipedia arbcom was over, she walked into her local police station and filed an attempted rape charge against me. I dont know the full details about that, only that the police didnt take her seriously (at all) and I hope referred her to get some help. I actually feel very sorry for her. Her user ID was "Morwen" and she hasnt edited for about a year and a half now.

I'll post later the full details about Durin in a separate thread which I guess will involve revealing my Wikipedia User ID. I suppose thats what needs to be done anyway at this stage.

[Kato]

The matter is also clouded that during the entire Durin affair another Wikipedia user accussed me of threatening to kill her. This was unrelated to the Durin events but Durin did eat up on it and showed up to testify at the ArbCom regarding this. I should add the ArbCom said I didnt threaten to kill her but didnt say a word against her for posting all over the internet that very serious lie.

In the end, that person left Wikipedia and I believe she had some very serious mental problems. At the time, I was in another country about 4000 miles away from her home in England yet, after the Wikipedia arbcom was over, she walked into her local police station and filed an attempted rape charge against me. I dont know the full details about that, only that the police didnt take her seriously (at all) and I hope referred her to get some help. I actually feel very sorry for her. Her user ID was "Morwen" and she hasnt edited for about a year and a half now.

I'll post later the full details about Durin in a separate thread which I guess will involve revealing my Wikipedia User ID. I suppose thats what needs to be done anyway at this stage.

Morwen?

Morwen was quite a significant administrator on WP at one time.

She accused you trying to kill her, and filed rape charges against you? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

[SpatzelL]

Morwen?

Morwen was quite a significant administrator on WP at one time.

She accused you trying to kill her, and filed rape charges against you? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

I never knew she was an administrator. She was a girl from England who was into Star Trek articles was all that I knew. Might have been an administrator, I guess.

But yes, thats what happened. Due to a comment where I said she should be careful about disrespecting people on Wikipedia, she said she was in fear of her life and went to something called the "IRC" and told everyone about it. She was calmed down and later revered herself but never apologized and then when I demanded an apology, the community turned against me (I was quite upset at the time about that and I admit acted like an a-hole with regard to wanting an apology).

An ArbCom was filed, where it was said I had made "regretable comments" but nowhere ever was Morwen ever told that she should not spread such dangerous lies around the internet nor did she ever say she was sorry for doing it. Anyway, about 6 months after that I heard from 3 sources, one of them a rep of an offical police agency, that she had filed rape charges against me. At the time I was halfway across the world and there was no possible way that I could have been anywhere near England much less have the knowledge of where she lived. For what I hope, I would think the police probably dismissed the accusation and hopefully got her some professional help.

I would tell more about that story but should probably do so in another thread. Durin (for a change) had little to do with that affair but did show up at the ArbCom talking about my misuse of images.

This post has been edited by SpatzelL:

[maiawatatos]

Morwen?

Morwen was quite a significant administrator on WP at one time.

She accused you trying to kill her, and filed rape charges against you? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

I never knew she was an administrator. She was a girl from England who was into Star Trek articles was all that I knew. Might have been an administrator, I guess.

But yes, thats what happened. Due to a comment where I said she should be careful about disrespecting people on Wikipedia, she said she was in fear of her life and went to something called the "IRC" and told everyone about it. She was calmed down and later revered herself but never apologized and then when I demanded an apology, the community turned against me (I was quite upset at the time about that and I admit acted like an a-hole with regard to wanting an apology).

An ArbCom was filed, where it was said I had made "regretable comments" but nowhere ever was Morwen ever told that she should not spread such dangerous lies around the internet nor did she ever say she was sorry for doing it. Anyway, about 6 months after that I head from 3 sources, one of them a rep of an offical police agency, that she had filed rape charges against me. At the time I was halfway across the world and there was no possible way that I could have been anywhere near England much less have the knowledge of where she lived. For what I hope, I would think the police probably dismissed the accusation and hopefully got her some professional help.

I would tell more about that story but should probably do so in another thread. Durin (for a change) had little to do with that affair but did show up at the ArbCom talking about my misuse of images.

I remember this episode well. I can't comment on what happened afterwards, but your behaviour re the incident that led to the arbcom was pretty poor, to be honest. I don't feel you are presenting a balanced account of the situation as it was.

[SpatzelL]

I remember this episode well. I can't comment on what happened afterwards, but your behaviour re the incident that led to the arbcom was pretty poor, to be honest. I don't feel you are presenting a balanced account of the situation as it was.

Yes, there were a lot of people acting poorly in those days and I was one of them (long story about that) but never said I was going to kill her. But, like I said, I feel sorry for her and hope she got some professional help for whatever was bothering her off of Wikipedia.