Admin watch, Quis custodiet ipsos custodes Options

[Peter Damian]

Apologies if this is already on another thread

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony1/AdminWatch

The talk page is quite funny

[Kato]

There are still debates going on in the talk page, and elections are due in March.

On another thread, someone here talked about implementing mandatory desysoppings of admins after two years of service. And after that, the admin has to reapply via the normal processes if they wish to continue being an admin.

That would probably be a better way of ensuring that Admins stay within boundaries during their tenure and don't go on the rampage against others. It would devolve power away from cliques, and act as a reminder that if admins didn't behave, they would face the grim prospect of an inevitable unpleasant RFA on the horizon.

But it is unlikely to be supported, even though it would be a good thing. Political Wikipedios would quickly start quoting an Alphabet Soup Contradiction of WP:IGONRE ALL RULES and WP:NOT and any other crap they could think of. Such a proposal would be scorned, and the abuse would continue without interruption.

[CharlotteWebb]

On another thread, someone here talked about implementing mandatory desysoppings of admins after two years of service. And after that, the admin has to reapply via the normal processes if they wish to continue being an admin.

That would probably be a better way of ensuring that Admins stay within boundaries during their tenure and don't go on the rampage against others. It would devolve power away from cliques, and act as a reminder that if admins didn't behave, they would face the grim prospect of an inevitable unpleasant RFA on the horizon.

But it is unlikely to be supported, even though it would be a good thing. Political Wikipedios would quickly start quoting an Alphabet Soup Contradiction of WP:IGONRE ALL RULES and WP:NOT and any other crap they could think of. Such a proposal would be scorned, and the abuse would continue without interruption.

(I agree that it will probably never happen, but let's suppose for the sake of argument that this system is adopted)

Which current admins other than Newyorkbrad you think would successfully be re-elected after two years? (wow, has NYB been an admin that long? I had to go check actually)

Maybe this could be split into a separate thread as I'd like to hear other's opinions too, if anyone else wants to seriously answer this question.

Actually let's broaden it to "one year standing" so the result doesn't look so much like AfterMASH. Anything less than that and we'll mostly get names of people who can't be evaluated well due to lack of opportunity to screw up administratively.

I'm not asking for who anyone personally thinks is a good admin, though that would be an interesting discussion also as nobody ever talks about that here, only about the admins they have a problem with.

In a nutshell, who (once again, not named "Brad") would pass a re-confirmation RFA after one year or two years or whatever (with no intermediate time off to "reform" and "repent" whatever kind of sins they have accrued)?

I can't think of any offhand I'd bet money on, but I'll keep trying.

[Sarcasticidealist]

In a nutshell, who (once again, not named "Brad") would pass a re-confirmation RFA after one year or two years or whatever (with no intermediate time off to "reform" and "repent" whatever kind of sins they have accrued)?

A majority (even without the effective lowering of RFA standards that would probably result), especially of those who we never hear about. Just considering those in the Canadian politics neck of the woods, I don't think any of GroundZero, Bearcat, Cambridge Bay Weather, or Arctic.gnome would have anything to fear. Considering WR regulars, I think Irridescent, LHvU, CHL, and Random832 would manage. SirFozzie and Neil probably would too, actually, albeit with more opposition. If I'm being completely honest, I think I could as well, though I'm obviously not able to look at that objectively.

To add to those, all of Casliber, Risker, Roger Davies, and Rlevse just exceeded 70% in the Arb Comm election, so it seems counterintuitive that they wouldn't manage to do so in an RFA (of course, that could change after years or Arb Comm service takes its toll on their popularity). Versageek, Lucasbfr, Luna Santin, Mailer Diablo, Daniel Case, Evula, EdJohnston, MBisanz, and DerHexer all just exceeded 70% in a checkuser or oversight election, so the same is probably true of them. We manage to promote bureaucrats, who typically need much more than 70% support and who have almost always been admins for at least a year, so there's more evidence.

This post has been edited by Sarcasticidealist: Wed 25th February 2009, 3:46pm

[CharlotteWebb]

A majority (even without the effective lowering of RFA standards that would probably result), especially of those who we never hear about. Just considering those in the Canadian politics neck of the woods, I don't think any of GroundZero, Bearcat, Cambridge Bay Weather, or Arctic.gnome would have anything to fear. Considering WR regulars, I think Irridescent, LHvU, CHL, and Random832 would manage. SirFozzie and Neil probably would too, actually, albeit with more opposition. If I'm being completely honest, I think I could as well, though I'm obviously not able to look at that objectively.

I forgot to mention, no self-noms. But yes, one could argue that the "best" admins are ones most people don't realize are admins, and whom the others knew but forgot about. In fact I'm sure it's been argued before.

To add to those, all of Casliber, Risker, Roger Davies, and Rlevse just exceeded 70% in the Arb Comm election, so it seems counterintuitive that they wouldn't manage to do so in an RFA (of course, that could change after years or Arb Comm service takes its toll on their popularity). Versageek, Lucasbfr, Luna Santin, Mailer Diablo, Daniel Case, Evula, EdJohnston, MBisanz, and DerHexer all just exceeded 70% in a checkuser or oversight election, so the same is probably true of them.

Ah but RFA is different than these super-user elections in that the candidate is not running against anyone other than the darker side of his or her self.

This can be a disadvantage, as RFA support is not subsidized by strategic "least worst" voting.

We manage to promote bureaucrats, who typically need much more than 70% support and who have almost always been admins for at least a year, so there's more evidence.

This is a fair point but not a huge one. Bureaucrat is a funny job.

How many accusations of "bureaucrat abuse" have actually been leveled? I don't see a reason for any bureaucrat except possibly Deskana not to be re-elected as bureaucrat if they were required to "re-confirm" as bureaucrat (though I expect the community to disagree with me on these points as per usual, plus this will never happen anyway).

Abuse generally occurs when one knows they shouldn't do something, but they also know they'll probably get away with it, or they really don't care anymore. It's all about gray areas, things that can be explained away by some mitigating circumstance. The bureaucrat group has fewer of those than any other, yet judging by the math it is the hardest position to obtain.

In any case the next step after getting the short list (or long list if you are an idealist) is to estimate whether this group plus whoever replaces the other group would be enough to keep the show on-air so to speak.

On the other hand I'm reminded of a store I worked at when I was like 20. Everyone I know of who worked there eventually got fired for one reason or another, including myself! As a boss, he was this demented, paranoid old man who routinely accused everyone (I mean everyone) of stealing money, stealing gas, stealing groceries, stealing soda-pops, stealing cigarettes, stealing his pens and pencils, stealing time (hourly pay), sleeping, gambling, drinking, swearing, toking, even fucking on the job. So kept firing all comers but somehow always found new applicants, managing to stay in business till the day he died a few years back.

Outside of work he was as nice as can be. Like a grandparent almost. Sad really.

I guess the point of this is most of the stuff we're talking about is not rocket science but stuff anyone can learn how to do. Whether you'd find enough who actually wanted to (and not for some sinister ulterior reason, however you plan to check for that) is a more pressing concern, especially when the commodity in question is unpaid labor.