Zeraeph, Matisse, SandyGeorgia, SlimVirgin, split from FT2 vs. SlimVirgin Options

[JohnA]

I was going to comment but Kato got in before me. B`

SlimVirgin has been a colossal negative for Wikipedia on many fronts. Most notably by leading the culture of capricious bullying that permeates the place. Slim represents the worst of the manipulative Game-Players who came to rule the site, during Wikipedia's evolution into a ubiquitous mainstream website 2005-7. Thus sabotaging any vestiges of the Larry Sanger-style conscientious encyclopedia that may have still lingered.

Anyone shedding tears over this, wrongly believing that Slim represents some "voice of the righteous", should just consult the archives.

A classic example of bad behavior was when Slim came up against the Featured Article folks, especially Sandy Georgia. When Slim didn't get her way on some Featured Article issue, she maliciously unblocked a genuinely insane stalker - who was harassing Sandy on the mistaken belief that Sandy was some rival from the past. This was an act of pure calculated revenge on the part of Slim, an attempt to undermine SandyGeorgia and hence destabilize the Featured Article process.

Such acts are everywhere. And they are a disgrace.

[Zeraeph]

Well, well. well,

As the old saying goes:

Nothing will ever happen that is so bad that some total stranger, without even a nodding aquaintance with the facts, won't be able to dig it up and twist it inside out to slander you 12 months later...particularly if you don't hang around playing all the right head games and kissing all the right *sses (my life is way too short and full for that).

she maliciously unblocked a genuinely insane stalker - who was harassing Sandy on the mistaken belief that Sandy was some rival from the past

To set the facts straight:

Sandy Georgia, very subtly and skillfully bullied and harassed me over an 18 month period in a manner so uncannily similar to another woman (User:TRCourage A_Kiwi A.Spotted.owl and, no doubt others) who has stalked me (and a few others to be honest, it seems to be her hobby) for years, frequently in a degee of collusion with this other woman (User:TRCourage A_Kiwi A.Spotted.owl and, no doubt others) that I, initially, went and made the same seriously insane and inexplicable mistake of assuming she was just another sockpuppet...

You can check all those usernames, and the diffs, plenty remain that, if actually visited (rather than heard of at third, fourth or greater, heavily biased, hand, or through the medium of spiteful innuendo), in spite of Sandy Georgia's skill in burying her abuses in much verbiage no-one can wade through enough of it to see what she is really up to, raise serious questions that have bog all to do with my sanity. plus or minus.

After spending 18 months trying to stir trouble for me with no success Sandy Georgia, found a way to use User:Mattisse to bring me down.

SlimVirgin stepped in...she did not know me, or my history, from the man in the moon so it is only reasonable to assume she also had an agenda of her own, but I was far too distressed by so much complex abuse (try being the target of that level of online abuse for years before you decide you know how it should affect someone else) combined with some offline, situations that I really wasn't paying enough attention to judge.

That's not what I came here for. I have seen that, since Slimvirgin's fall from grace (because if she had done it before there was too much risk of SlimVirgin managing to use that repeat of the same pattern to expose her at last), Sandy Georgia's target is the very person she used, a year ago, to set me up...User:Mattisse.

I rather suspected she would, even before I saw the way she dropped the other woman (User:TRCourage A_Kiwi A.Spotted.owl and, no doubt others) as soon as she had no further use for her.

Mattisse is volatile and eccentric, but she also knows, from both sides of the fence, just how Sandy Georgia really works...

Check out what is happening for yourselves...if you have a grain of sense, it has to raise serious questions.

Not for me though...I have known that Sandy Georgia was just a variation on the theme of "common bully" without a scruple to her name since summer 2006. The wider relevance of this is the extraordinary amount of influence she has come to wield through the so-called "IRC Cabal" as well as private email. That is VERY real.

SlimVirgin is no better or worse than anyone posting here.

Z

This post has been edited by Zeraeph: Sat 20th December 2008, 9:13am

[Cla68]

Well, well. well,

As the old saying goes:

Nothing will ever happen that is so bad that some total stranger, without even a nodding aquaintance with the facts, won't be able to dig it up and twist it inside out to slander you 12 months later...particularly if you don't hang around playing all the right head games and kissing all the right *sses (my life is way too short and full for that).

she maliciously unblocked a genuinely insane stalker - who was harassing Sandy on the mistaken belief that Sandy was some rival from the past

To set the facts straight:

Z

Would a moderator please tarpit this nonsense please?

[Hell Freezes Over]

SlimVirgin stepped in...she did not know me, or my history, from the man in the moon so it is only reasonable to assume she also had an agenda of her own, but I was far too distressed by so much complex abuse (try being the target of that level of online abuse for years before you decide you know how it should affect someone else) combined with some offline, situations that I really wasn't paying enough attention to judge.

Zeraeph, I had no agenda when I unblocked you. I was criticized by SandyGeorgia for doing it because there were posts on your talk page that should have alerted me to the issues, but I didn't read them before the unblock, so I didn't realize the extent of the dispute. If I had, I wouldn't have unblocked, but I would still have argued for your unblock, because I saw no reason you and Sandy couldn't co-exist. You'd realized your mistake in calling her a stalker, and (as I recall) you'd apologized. I had hoped that a commitment from you to stay away from her would allow you to remain unblocked, but then the ArbCom got involved, and I think you didn't want to make that commitment unless Sandy committed to something too (though I'm writing from memory, and I may have the details wrong), and at that point positions became too entrenched for anything to be worked out.

[EricBarbour]

Would a moderator please tarpit this nonsense please?

Why? It's just starting to get ripe and juicy.

I thought you hated SV for backstabbing you on-wiki.

[One]

Would a moderator please tarpit this nonsense please?

Why? It's just starting to get ripe and juicy.

I thought you hated SV for backstabbing you on-wiki.

First off, I don't think Cla68 does. I thought I saw some conciliatory posts around here.

Besides, did you even read Z's post? The bulk of it is not aimed at SV. If nothing else, I think this section should be cut off and tarpitted. It's just old grudges and kookery not related to the timely FT2 mess.

[wikiwhistle]

Well, well. well,

As the old saying goes:

Nothing will ever happen that is so bad that some total stranger, without even a nodding aquaintance with the facts, won't be able to dig it up and twist it inside out to slander you 12 months later...particularly if you don't hang around playing all the right head games and kissing all the right *sses (my life is way too short and full for that).

she maliciously unblocked a genuinely insane stalker - who was harassing Sandy on the mistaken belief that Sandy was some rival from the past

To set the facts straight:

Z

Would a moderator please tarpit this nonsense please?

Why? Just because you happen to dislike the opinion? Z thought Sandy was a woman she knew from other sites. She's said so all along. She apologied. Someone called her an 'insane stalker' so I think she's allowed to set the record straight (unless that's the bit you think should be in the tar pit?)

[Somey]

That's not what I came here for. I have seen that, since Slimvirgin's fall from grace (because if she had done it before there was too much risk of SlimVirgin managing to use that repeat of the same pattern to expose her at last), Sandy Georgia's target is the very person she used, a year ago, to set me up...User:Mattisse.

Would a moderator please tarpit this nonsense please?

Tell ya'whut, if she (or anyone else) doesn't come up with some sort of coherent (and preferably linkable) evidence in the next day or so to show how SandyGeorgia (T-C-L-K-R-D) is "targeting" Matisse (T-C-L-K-R-D) , then off to the tar-pit it goes!

I vaguely recall we've been over the whole business about SandyGeorgia's "insane stalker" accusations, and I don't recall our coming to any sort of conclusion about it... Also, I checked SandyGeorgia's last 3000 contribs, and the word "Matisse" doesn't appear, though of course she's something of an Editing Mo-Sheen over there, so that only represents about 2 months' worth.

[Zeraeph]

Would a moderator please tarpit this nonsense please?

...and you think suppressing actual facts in favour of malicious gossip to the detriment of people you do not even know is a good thing because?????

No, seriously...I want to know...I am fascinated...

[Zeraeph]

I checked SandyGeorgia's last 3000 contribs, and the word "Matisse" doesn't appear, though of course she's something of an Editing Mo-Sheen over there, so that only represents about 2 months' worth.

Try checking Matisse's edits...as, I suspect, you know perfectly well, SG dishes most of her dirt on IRC and in private email...

I don't know, you guys claim to have such a "moral high ground" yet you actually play exactly the same toxic games, and, at times are even worse.

S...truly...don't be so defensive, when I said you had your "own agenda" I meant in the normal range...however, I would be more impressed if you must insist on defining me at all, you would do me the courtesy of sticking to the facts.

I was mistaken about SandyGeorgia being the same person (A Kiwi etc) who has stalked me for 10 years and apologised for it...but I made that mistake because SandyGeorgia was stalking me in her own right in a way that, in the beginning seemed so remarkably similar.

I don't ever want to go back to the spiteful kindergarten playground that is Wikipedia, I don't have to "appease" anyone by pretending SandyGeorgia didn't stalk me, when you know as well as I do that she did...however I have no taste at all for seeing her put Mattisse through the same this year while everyone tries to demand she pretends it isn't happening...

That is an horrible way to spend christmas (not that spiteful, overgrown children can be expected to give a toss about that).

As a result...I personally, haven't the slightest intention of getting dragged into it two years running....I'll be spending Christmas with the grown ups instead.

However, S, bluntly, I do know you used me...I knew that at the time (I am an Aspie not a moron love - different condition)...but I also know you are in no way any worse than your detractors here, and seem a significantly better than many of them, and am happy to come back here and say so...

...and if it gives some stranger a cheap thrill to knock themselves out making spiteful remarks and deleting my posts...what the hell?

It's Christmas...let them have their fun.

[Milton Roe]

Well, well. well,

As the old saying goes:

Nothing will ever happen that is so bad that some total stranger, without even a nodding aquaintance with the facts, won't be able to dig it up and twist it inside out to slander you 12 months later...particularly if you don't hang around playing all the right head games and kissing all the right *sses (my life is way too short and full for that).

she maliciously unblocked a genuinely insane stalker - who was harassing Sandy on the mistaken belief that Sandy was some rival from the past

To set the facts straight:

Z

Would a moderator please tarpit this nonsense please?

On what grounds, Cla? The antics of editing on WP and what lies behind them, is one of the reasons we're all here.

Now, you may want to climb to the next meta-level and look at the "big picture" instead of the messy and unrefined raw data. And there's room for that, too. But you can't JUST do that, because messy unrefined data is where it all starts. This isn't a journal of philosophy. We're trying to make sense of facts, and you're trying to tarpit a simple discussion trying to get at facts. If it bores you, don't read it!

[Cla68]

Would a moderator please tarpit this nonsense please?

On what grounds, Cla? The antics of editing on WP and what lies behind them, is one of the reasons we're all here.

Now, you may want to climb to the next meta-level and look at the "big picture" instead of the messy and unrefined raw data. And there's room for that, too. But you can't JUST do that, because messy unrefined data is where it all starts. This isn't a journal of philosophy. We're trying to make sense of facts, and you're trying to tarpit a simple discussion trying to get at facts. If it bores you, don't read it!

Well, because I believe that the ArbCom case in which Zareaph was banned for a year was fairly conclusive that she's irrational. By tarpitting it I could say this where not everyone could see it. The vote to ban her was unanimous, by the way. Although it has been noted in this forum that many have been unfairly banned by WP, Zareaph isn't one of them.

I guess if you want to, we could disprove each of Zareph's allegations one by one, although I think it's a waste of time because they're so off-the-wall. She says that SandyGeorgia was "targeting" Matisse? I believe it's the other way around:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mal...andard__at_work

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mar...h.2C_trouble.21

[Milton Roe]

Would a moderator please tarpit this nonsense please?

On what grounds, Cla? The antics of editing on WP and what lies behind them, is one of the reasons we're all here.

Now, you may want to climb to the next meta-level and look at the "big picture" instead of the messy and unrefined raw data. And there's room for that, too. But you can't JUST do that, because messy unrefined data is where it all starts. This isn't a journal of philosophy. We're trying to make sense of facts, and you're trying to tarpit a simple discussion trying to get at facts. If it bores you, don't read it!

Well, because I believe that the ArbCom case in which Zareaph was banned for a year was fairly conclusive that she's irrational. By tarpitting it I could say this where not everyone could see it. The vote to ban her was unanimous, by the way. Although it has been noted in this forum that many have been unfairly banned by WP, Zareaph isn't one of them.

I guess if you want to, we could disprove each of Zareph's allegations one by one, although I think it's a waste of time because they're so off-the-wall. She says that SandyGeorgia was "targeting" Matisse? I believe it's the other way around:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mal...andard__at_work

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mar...h.2C_trouble.21

Aha. Okay, well, that's very helpful and thanks. But I don't see why the irrationalities of banned anonymous WP users merits tarpitting. Leaving it out here in the daylight just saves everybody the trouble of having to look it up and figure it out again, if they want to get into it.

[Cla68]

Would a moderator please tarpit this nonsense please?

On what grounds, Cla? The antics of editing on WP and what lies behind them, is one of the reasons we're all here.

Now, you may want to climb to the next meta-level and look at the "big picture" instead of the messy and unrefined raw data. And there's room for that, too. But you can't JUST do that, because messy unrefined data is where it all starts. This isn't a journal of philosophy. We're trying to make sense of facts, and you're trying to tarpit a simple discussion trying to get at facts. If it bores you, don't read it!

Well, because I believe that the ArbCom case in which Zareaph was banned for a year was fairly conclusive that she's irrational. By tarpitting it I could say this where not everyone could see it. The vote to ban her was unanimous, by the way. Although it has been noted in this forum that many have been unfairly banned by WP, Zareaph isn't one of them.

I guess if you want to, we could disprove each of Zareph's allegations one by one, although I think it's a waste of time because they're so off-the-wall. She says that SandyGeorgia was "targeting" Matisse? I believe it's the other way around:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mal...andard__at_work

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mar...h.2C_trouble.21

Aha. Okay, well, that's very helpful and thanks. But I don't see why the irrationalities of banned anonymous WP users merits tarpitting. Leaving it out here in the daylight just saves everybody the trouble of having to look it up and figure it out again, if they want to get into it.

You're probably right and I was probably a little too quick to call for a tarpitting without thinking it through a little more.

[Zeraeph]

I believe that the ArbCom case in which Zareaph was banned for a year was fairly conclusive that she's irrational.

You spend all your time slagging off Wikipedia, admins, et al as dishonest, corrupt bullies and yet, as soon as it suits you, you demand that their (transparently distorted, to anyone with half a brain) silly little "politick" games be treated as holy writ and given preference over fact...

...forgive me if that seems a little "irrational" in itself.

You (or the arbcom) can say whatever you like and it will never alter the reality that, I am a very rational and honourable person who has just been telling the truth all along...and I think a part of you at least realises that is a distinct possibility...but prefers to have fun bullying people.

I am just here because, although she didn't actually give a hoot how much harm she did to me, I hate seeing Mattisse put through the same kind of nightmare Christmas I was last year (because Sandy Georgia *IS*, not *WAS* targetting Mattisse), while being simultaneously, falsely accused of being the perpetrator...

...and although I do realise SlimVirgin is not exactly the living saint she would like me to believe, she is still a human being, no worse than most others, and does not deserve any of the abuse being thrown at her here, or on Wikipedia.

Incidentally, last years arbcom case was actually ended because I was developing pneumonia (I have COPD) and arbcom refused my request for 7 days to recover before making my case...so I took the "right to vanish" to have a chance of recovery.

To risk fatal consequences to the health of a real person for the sake of a glorified game of 2nd life, is not exactly in the scope of reason.


This post has been edited by Zeraeph: Sun 21st December 2008, 1:24am

[wikiwhistle]

I believe that the ArbCom case in which Zareaph was banned for a year was fairly conclusive that she's irrational.

Lol wut? Are arbcom infallible? If I thought a user was someone who'd stalked me over other sites or something (these things do happen and can be very infuriating) I might seem a bit irrational about them, but if I could get someone to understand what had been happening, they might see my point. Remember that when Z was blocked the time before, Jimbo unblocked her after being told about the problems she'd faced from that stalker.

[Random832]

Also, I checked SandyGeorgia's last 3000 contribs

Wait, what? Do you have some sort of script to do that?

Try checking Matisse's edits...as, I suspect, you know perfectly well, SG dishes most of her dirt on IRC and in private email...

What alleged IRC channel does this take place in?

But, regardless - why don't _you_ provide the evidence? Clearly there's something that someone posted or said in public that led you to believe these things. So put up or shut up.

[Kato]

OK. So let's say we take Slim's word at face value here, and accept that it was an oversight on her part to unleash Zeraeph without realizing the full facts, rather than an attempt to undermine SandyGeorgia after a previous dispute between SV and Sandy:

Zeraeph, I had no agenda when I unblocked you. I was criticized by SandyGeorgia for doing it because there were posts on your talk page that should have alerted me to the issues, but I didn't read them before the unblock, so I didn't realize the extent of the dispute. If I had, I wouldn't have unblocked, but I would still have argued for your unblock, because I saw no reason you and Sandy couldn't co-exist. You'd realized your mistake in calling her a stalker, and (as I recall) you'd apologized. I had hoped that a commitment from you to stay away from her would allow you to remain unblocked, but then the ArbCom got involved, and I think you didn't want to make that commitment unless Sandy committed to something too (though I'm writing from memory, and I may have the details wrong), and at that point positions became too entrenched for anything to be worked out.

And we downgrade Zeraeph's behavior towards SandyGeorgia from a presumed state of "genuinely insane stalking" to merely "repeated erratic unfounded allegations?" - does that help?

[Zeraeph]

And we downgrade Zeraeph's behavior towards SandyGeorgia from a presumed state of "genuinely insane stalking" to merely "repeated erratic unfounded allegations?" - does that help?

Kato, you can reinvent Zeraeph's behaviour as committing unnatural acts with infant badgers if it answers your personal need to be catty (and, frankly, not a little hypocritical) in this, the season of goodwill.

What alleged IRC channel does this take place in?

But, regardless - why don't _you_ provide the evidence? Clearly there's something that someone posted or said in public that led you to believe these things. So put up or shut up.

And I take orders from you because???

...apart from which, I mean the usual Wikipedia IRC channel you all go on about incessantly...

What on earth else did you THINK I meant?



Regardless...

Merry Christmas

[Lar]

Also, I checked SandyGeorgia's last 3000 contribs

Wait, what? Do you have some sort of script to do that?

Try checking Matisse's edits...as, I suspect, you know perfectly well, SG dishes most of her dirt on IRC and in private email...

What alleged IRC channel does this take place in?

I thought Sandy was one of the folk who tended not to use IRC, at all, because she doesn't care for it.

As for scripts to search contribs, they can be created. I have one. It's not really generally sharable as it's rather clunky. They're not too hard to create if you're fairly facile with perl or python, frameworks (to take care of the busywork of connecting, fetching a page, etc) exist to build them on in both languages

What alleged IRC channel does this take place in?

But, regardless - why don't _you_ provide the evidence? Clearly there's something that someone posted or said in public that led you to believe these things. So put up or shut up.

And I take orders from you because???

It's not an order, it's more along the lines of either justify what you're saying with some material to back it up, or be written off as a foamer. You are free to do as you like about it. But you're not scoring any style points with your responses at the moment.

OK. So let's say we take Slim's word at face value here, and accept that it was an oversight on her part to unleash Zeraeph without realizing the full facts, rather than an attempt to undermine SandyGeorgia after a previous dispute between SV and Sandy:

Zeraeph, I had no agenda when I unblocked you. I was criticized by SandyGeorgia for doing it because there were posts on your talk page that should have alerted me to the issues, but I didn't read them before the unblock, so I didn't realize the extent of the dispute. If I had, I wouldn't have unblocked, but I would still have argued for your unblock, because I saw no reason you and Sandy couldn't co-exist. You'd realized your mistake in calling her a stalker, and (as I recall) you'd apologized. I had hoped that a commitment from you to stay away from her would allow you to remain unblocked, but then the ArbCom got involved, and I think you didn't want to make that commitment unless Sandy committed to something too (though I'm writing from memory, and I may have the details wrong), and at that point positions became too entrenched for anything to be worked out.

Did SlimVirgin ever apologise to SandyGeorgia for that? I'm not a big fan of hair shirts and public sackcloth and ashes but a simple "I goofed, and I'm sorry for the stress and havoc it caused you" might go a long way to convincing ME that SlimVirgin's turned a new leaf.

And we downgrade Zeraeph's behavior towards SandyGeorgia from a presumed state of "genuinely insane stalking" to merely "repeated erratic unfounded allegations?" - does that help?

Oh, shedfuls. That latter behaviour seems to be on display here and now.