Bishonen indef-blocks FT2, Holy crap, he hasn't been desysopped by Jimbo Options

[Kelly Martin]

I'm a little curious about how you yourself feel about this, KM - you've known Dave Gerard online since before Wikipedia, going back to Usenet and all that anti-Scientology stuff, right? You probably know as well as anyone that Dave has few (if any) qualms about resorting to dirty tricks and clever deceits in the service of whatever cause he happens to be defending at the time. I myself wouldn't be here at all if it hadn't been for one of them, in fact.

Back in the Old West days, when the Rule of Law finally arrived on the former frontier, and previously lawless towns became cities with police and judges and so on, a lot of the old shoot-from-the-hip gunslingers had a difficult time adapting because their skills were no longer required. I suppose some of them may have managed to become authors and movie-script consultants, but only the literate ones. Dave is more of a bile-slinger (and sarcasm-slinger?) than a gunslinger, but IMO the same issues apply - where would he go? What would he do after Wikipedia?

It just seems to me that Dave has a vested interest in keeping Wikipedia as chaotic and drama-ridden as possible, so that he himself doesn't become obsolete.

David has fingers in many pies. He is, as many of us know, quite active in Uncyclopedia, and we learned recently that he was in some way involved in several shock sites (lemonparty being probably the most notable of these). I think David has a very high personal drama demand, and keeps himself engaged in multiple dramaturgies in order to satisfy that need. The effective death of USENET must have hit him hard; that's a lot of lost opportunities for drama.

He should get a ham license and hang out on 75 meters; he'd fit in well there.

[Giano]

and Gerard's role has been largely forgotten as attention has been re-focused on me. Only on Wikipedia does Nemesis seem to turn a blind eye.

This statement reinforces my belief that David Gerard was, and remains, a primary target of the Giano-Bishonen axis.

Gosh Kelly, you are so perceptive, yes it's true! Bishonen and I sit up all night plotting against David Gerard setting traps for him to perform illegal oversights, perform illegal checkusers and so on and he falls into the traps each time - you've spotted that gullible soft eager to please streak he has. Oh hell, we had not counted on your Miss Marple like razor brain seeing through us. The truth is if Bishonen had not brought the whole sorry saga to a close, by blocking FT2, it would still be dragging on - she is a daft woman, she should have allowed it to fester on damaging more and more people think of the scores she and I could have settled if she had. However, there is a plus, the arbcom are looking at Gerard's role, I am told, and as you know I have huge influence over the Arbcom so I expect he will be hung drawn, quartered and flogged naked off the site. This has been my intention since I first evilly encouraged FT2 to write about bestiality.Now you've foiled the plot - Damm you.

Giano

[GlassBeadGame]

Damm you.

Giano

Careful, Kelly. This guy damns a fig tree and it withers.

[Kelly Martin]

Damm you.

Giano

Careful, Kelly. This guy damns a fig tree and it withers.

I'll take my chances.

[Doc glasgow]

This thread seems to have deviated from FT2, so perhaps now is the time to say that he was not totally 100% in the wrong - the trouble at Wikipedia was - no one knew how to help him or P Damain out of their hole without being accused of partisanship. Because of this, the problem grew, it was also hugely assisted by a complete lack of communication (please no cracks about FT's verbosity) - I only recently understood how bad that communication was - what I thought was known by the Arbs appears not to have been known at all - and yet I can't quite believe that. I have tried to help both, but there was a mind-set, an implacable mind-set on both sides - and I only now realise, I was being stuffed in trying to sort this in other areas. Once Gerard moved in, oversighting and running rampant and seemingly only conversing with Jimbo the whole thing became confused, everyone protecting each other. I doubt anyone other than Jimbo himself, who was ignorant on the matter of who was on which side, and who was on neither, could have sorted it. Ultimately, FT2 had to resign, he had confused and prevaricated for too long - and justice has to be black and white, but sometimes the truth is rather more honest but very confused. In this instance there was no one with an ounce of nouse to sort the problem and so like Topsy it just grew.

Giano

Since praise is too seldom offered here, let me say that I was taken back by the wisdom and perception of the above. I don't agree with it 100%, but nevertheless it has incite and perspective.

Thanks.

[GlassBeadGame]

This thread seems to have deviated from FT2, so perhaps now is the time to say that he was not totally 100% in the wrong - the trouble at Wikipedia was - no one knew how to help him or P Damain out of their hole without being accused of partisanship. Because of this, the problem grew, it was also hugely assisted by a complete lack of communication (please no cracks about FT's verbosity) - I only recently understood how bad that communication was - what I thought was known by the Arbs appears not to have been known at all - and yet I can't quite believe that. I have tried to help both, but there was a mind-set, an implacable mind-set on both sides - and I only now realise, I was being stuffed in trying to sort this in other areas. Once Gerard moved in, oversighting and running rampant and seemingly only conversing with Jimbo the whole thing became confused, everyone protecting each other. I doubt anyone other than Jimbo himself, who was ignorant on the matter of who was on which side, and who was on neither, could have sorted it. Ultimately, FT2 had to resign, he had confused and prevaricated for too long - and justice has to be black and white, but sometimes the truth is rather more honest but very confused. In this instance there was no one with an ounce of nouse to sort the problem and so like Topsy it just grew.

Giano

Since praise is too seldom offered here, let me say that I was taken back by the wisdom and perception of the above. I don't agree with it 100%, but nevertheless it has incite and perspective.

Thanks.

Yes Giano is often incite-ful.

[wikiwhistle]

He actually needed protection and advice on dealing with the bear pit, that is Wikipedia.

That's exactly what I think, and have told him so. He seems to think he deserves slagging off and will just sit there and take it. For instance, the comments by RHMED to his talk page mocking him, he left up for ages. I think it will make him prone to depression or something, if he just lets people walk all over him in their comments.

[wikiwhistle]

Question for you though. Do you really believe I've studied or been involved in most of what I edit in depth on? Do you believe I'm a lawyer because I authored a number of law articles and added in-depth on a range of others?

No, and ditto the others. My claim was that certain of your edits were biased and slanted.

Not so- you said you might report him to the RSPCA or something. That implies you thought he did something to animals they should know about.

I for one think the edits were somewhat erm...disturbing and he seemed to exhibit a knowledge of what might well be the inner life/self-justifications of someone with this issue. I showed someone the edits and within a couple of sentences they'd made up their mind. Maybe it was just an unfortunate impression the edits created. There was the block over "chocolate labrador", for 3RR too, although I think he was actually reverting a vandal, it shows someone taking particular care of that article.

Peter, you were used in an attempt to take out one enemy; now they are hoping to flip that enemy in their quest to take out a greater one.

Who are they trying to get at now, do you think? Not disagreeing with you, just I can't see their target yet. I too am surprised G has turned on Peter. If they're after David G, why not go straight for him? Or is it just that FT was the easier target?

Can I go back to being "an editor who likes tough articles", who has awareness of that topic area via anti-abuse work

Oh come on, these were some of your first edits. People don't even know about the wiki rule of Neutral Point of View when they join the project. They write about something they're fired up about, usually with a point of view. For instance, they might post a link to their own site, or in my case my most serious IRL enemies had written vanity and POV articles about themselves and how wonderful they are, so I joined to contribute to the AfDs

This post has been edited by wikiwhistle: Sat 17th January 2009, 9:12pm

[Peter Damian]

Not so- you said you might report him to the RSPCA or something. That implies you thought he did something to animals they should know about.

No not so that is a complete fabrication and you should know that from the Dec 2007 email I copied you last week. For goodness sake.

I said I would be contacting the appropriate organisations, by which I meant some of the organisations that had expressed concern about the Zoophilia article (e.g. ASAIRS). I talked to a couple then W Scribe asked me to stop & I did. Then they blocked my anyway (partly o/a of a crossed wire with Scribe which I had explained before) and then they oversighted.

The Zoophilia article was and still is a disgrace.

This post has been edited by Peter Damian: Sat 17th January 2009, 9:23pm

[Bottled_Spider]

I think it will make him prone to depression or something, if he just lets people walk all over him in their comments.

I hear your pain. What say we set up a small sanctuary for poor old FT2 on WR? A virtual soup-kitchen, as it were, where he can come in out of the cold and have a cup of tea? And a biscuit if he's good.

There was the block over "chocolate labrador", for 3RR too, although I think he was actually reverting a vandal, it shows someone taking particular care of that article.

"Chocolate Labrador"? This just keeps getting weirder. I'm scared.

[Somey]

Gosh Kelly, you are so perceptive, yes it's true! Bishonen and I sit up all night plotting against David Gerard setting traps for him to perform illegal oversights, perform illegal checkusers and so on and he falls into the traps each time - you've spotted that gullible soft eager to please streak he has.

Assuming you mean "eager to please" himself, I don't think it's so hard to spot...

Seriously, though, there are such things as "targets of opportunity." And if in the process of catching one fish you manage to get a hook into a bigger one, that's more a case of working events to your advantage. It doesn't necessarily mean you must have plotted to get the bigger fish all along...

...there is a plus, the arbcom are looking at Gerard's role, I am told, and as you know I have huge influence over the Arbcom so I expect he will be hung drawn, quartered and flogged naked off the site. This has been my intention since I first evilly encouraged FT2 to write about bestiality.Now you've foiled the plot - Damm you.

Well, her having foiled the plot (such as it is) would only be damnable if there had been plans to take lurid photographs of the hanging, drawing, quartering, and flogging, which would now tragically have to be scrapped.

Like I mentioned earlier, Dave is a very clever deceiver, manipulator, and deal-maker - to get concrete evidence of wrongdoing on his part is actually something of an achievement, given the way he operates.

[Giano]

Not so- you said you might report him to the RSPCA or something. That implies you thought he did something to animals they should know about.

No not so that is a complete fabrication and you should know that from the Dec 2007 email I copied you last week. For goodness sake.

I said I would be contacting the appropriate organisations, by which I meant some of the organisations that had expressed concern about the Zoophilia article (e.g. ASAIRS). I talked to a couple then W Scribe asked me to stop & I did. Then they blocked my anyway (partly o/a of a crossed wire with Scribe which I had explained before) and then they oversighted.

The Zoophilia article was and still is a disgrace.

Appropriate organisations, now that depends on interpretation of appropriate, your exact words, from that date, to FT2 were "I am posting at various activist sites, and spreading the word. Expect to hear MUCH more of this." or am I mistaken, is that a lie are they not your exact words? (the higher case emphasis is yours)

Giano

This post has been edited by Giano: Sat 17th January 2009, 10:12pm

[Peter Damian]

Not so- you said you might report him to the RSPCA or something. That implies you thought he did something to animals they should know about.

No not so that is a complete fabrication and you should know that from the Dec 2007 email I copied you last week. For goodness sake.

I said I would be contacting the appropriate organisations, by which I meant some of the organisations that had expressed concern about the Zoophilia article (e.g. ASAIRS). I talked to a couple then W Scribe asked me to stop & I did. Then they blocked my anyway (partly o/a of a crossed wire with Scribe which I had explained before) and then they oversighted.

The Zoophilia article was and still is a disgrace.

Appropriate organisations, now that depends on interpretation of appropriate, your exact words, from that date, to FT2 were "I am posting at various activist sites,
and spreading the word. Expect to hear MUCH more of this." or am I mistaken, is that a lie are they not your exact words? (the higher case emphasis is yours)

Giano

That is consistent with my intention to contact ASAIRS - an organisation set up to combat Zoophiliac propaganda on the internet. As I said, I stopped this shortly afterwards. (and ASAIRS is moribund, anyway).

And why, if the edits were not bestialist propaganda, as I think they were, should FT2 have any difficulty with this? I wanted a second opinion of the edits, and I was particularly concerned that Wikipedia was prepared to appoint to a high position a person who was promoting this propaganda.

It seems Giano you do not view this as propaganda. In which case you could not view the message as a realistic threat.

[edit] I also discussed the issue at 'Veggie boards' but there was no great interest as it turns out that a number of these vegetarian eco-warrior types are themselves quite keen on these sorts of activities - FT2 will recall from his experience of the Zoophilia talk pages that this has happened once before.

[edit] Here indeed it is

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...401710#Advocacy

A sad user called Seus Hawkins tried to contact a Vegan society in Queensland. FT2 (as sockpuppet User:TBP) has a good laugh at him when he found out that some of the vegans were quite approving of, er, the leg over part.

This post has been edited by Peter Damian: Sat 17th January 2009, 10:27pm

[Giano]

Not so- you said you might report him to the RSPCA or something. That implies you thought he did something to animals they should know about.

No not so that is a complete fabrication and you should know that from the Dec 2007 email I copied you last week. For goodness sake.

I said I would be contacting the appropriate organisations, by which I meant some of the organisations that had expressed concern about the Zoophilia article (e.g. ASAIRS). I talked to a couple then W Scribe asked me to stop & I did. Then they blocked my anyway (partly o/a of a crossed wire with Scribe which I had explained before) and then they oversighted.

The Zoophilia article was and still is a disgrace.

Appropriate organisations, now that depends on interpretation of appropriate, your exact words, from that date, to FT2 were "I am posting at various activist sites,
and spreading the word. Expect to hear MUCH more of this." or am I mistaken, is that a lie are they not your exact words? (the higher case emphasis is yours)

Giano

That is consistent with my intention to contact ASAIRS - an organisation set up to combat Zoophiliac propaganda on the internet. As I said, I stopped this shortly afterwards. (and ASAIRS is moribund, anyway).

And why, if the edits were not bestialist propaganda, as I think they were, should FT2 have any difficulty with this? I wanted a second opinion of the edits, and I was particularly concerned that Wikipedia was prepared to appoint to a high position a person who was promoting this propaganda.

It seems Giano you do not view this as propaganda. In which case you could not view the message as a realistic threat.

activist sites

The words you used were "activist sites" that is a plural, what were the other sites? Activist, now there's nasty word, and as for Propganda - Oh just don't go there, you don't know the meaning of the word. Now sites with an "S" what other sites? You are fooling no one.

Giano

[Peter Damian]

The words you used were "activist sites" that is a plural, what were the other sites? Activist, now there's nasty word, and as for Propganda - Oh just don't go there, you don't know the meaning of the word. Now sites with an "S" what other sites? You are fooling no one.

It is blatant propaganda. You are fooling no one either, O Giano. The oversighted edits were not the only edits I had a concern about. Shall we talk about some of those?

[edit] If you read the edit to my previous post, you will see there were two sites.

Activist, now there's nasty word

Veggie boards?

And here is someone else who feels it is all propaganda.

I wish to quote someone else's views on the Zoophilia page, and note that the problems highlighted in this quote are what got me started on the zoophilia page in the first place, attempting to insert balance, and even though I now have a separate page for the health issue, the party responsible for the tone of the original page is intent on pursuing me and keeping the tone in lockstep with the master article. Here's the apposite quote: "In my opinion it needs severe editing to the point that it would practically unrecognizeable from its current incarnation. It should also be very considerably shorter than it is, since the bulk of it consists of unnecessary romanticizing of zoophilia. .... this current article is still a terrible embarrassment to wikipedia. In fact I actually found out about it because someone linked it as an example of how wikipedia can get really biased due to POV manipulation by obsessive biased authors with an agenda to wage. In this case, internet bestialists using their group-jargon to butter up the article with heavy romanticizing and POV abuse over a prolonged campaign attempting to 'normalize' an incredibly biased article. To me this would be like creationists manipulating the "science" wiki page to include frequent counter-arguments against the scientific method. Or as previously stated, like pedophiles manipulating the wiki pedophilia page to make child molestation seem more normalized. This is wrong, and I hope someone with a strong sense of neutrality puts their foot down to stop it. Additionally, I would like to add that the current wikipedia entry for "homosexuality" is only slightly shorter than this one is - and that one is currently flagged for being too long. Something is terribly, disagreeably wrong here, and it needs to be addressed as soon as possible.". [6 December 2006] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...ation/Zoophilia

This post has been edited by Peter Damian: Sat 17th January 2009, 10:32pm

[Giano]

The words you used were "activist sites" that is a plural, what were the other sites? Activist, now there's nasty word, and as for Propganda - Oh just don't go there, you don't know the meaning of the word. Now sites with an "S" what other sites? You are fooling no one.

It is blatant propaganda. You are fooling no one either, O Giano. The oversighted edits were not the only edits I had a concern about. Shall we talk about some of those?

[edit] If you read the edit to my previous post, you will see there were two sites.

Have a pleasant evening. Night!

Giano

[Bishonen]

(snip)

Sorry—I was trying to refresh, not post.I'm hopeless with this mysterious site, I give up. Bishonen.

This post has been edited by Somey: Sun 18th January 2009, 3:57pm

[tarantino]

Sorry—I was trying to refresh, not post.I'm hopeless with this mysterious site, I give up. Bishonen.

Just click the edit button of your post, Control-a in the edit window, and replace it with something appropriate like "oops'.

[tarantino]

There is an interesting comment by JoshuaZ at RFARB#Bishzilla regarding the exposure of his deceptiveness and subsequent humiliation. He has accused someone in a position of authority of leaking secrets to Greg -

There's been some speculation that FT2 was responsible for leaking checkuser data and internal ArbCom deliberations to banned user Greg Kohs. As the individual who was the primary victim of that leak, there is as far as I am aware no evidence that FT2 had anything to do with that leak. We do know based on the details that it almost certainly had to have been an arbitrator, former arbitrator or a developer but there's no reason to think that FT2 had anything to do with that. JoshuaZ (talk) 01:18, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Who's "we" Josh?

edit: I was reminded that Josh is referring to this leak that originated from the arbcom mailing list.

The JoshuaZ sockpuppeting post

This post has been edited by tarantino: Sun 18th January 2009, 3:54am

[Bottled_Spider]

Sorry—I was trying to refresh, not post.I'm hopeless with this mysterious site, I give up. Bishonen.

Why not ask Bishzilla what to do?
Bishzilla not post while try to refresh. Mysterious site Wikipedia Review not intimidate Bishzilla. Bishzilla not hopeless and give up intimidate Tokyo, etc.