Phil Sandifer request arbitration against Giano Options

[everyking]

Phil Sandifer has requested arbitration against Giano. Unfortunately for Phil, railroading just isn't as easy now as it was back in 2005, and one arbitrator (Carcharoth) has already declined the case.

[Viridae]

2 now. Jayvbd

Make that 4 declines, this is going down faster thani would have thought possible.

[Eva Destruction]

Fetch the popcorn

[Cla68]

Fetch the popcorn

There was a recent vote taken, inconclusively, on AN or ANI to desysop Phil for abuse of admin privileges. Hopefully someone will add a section on that to this RfC.

[Viridae]

Fetch the popcorn

There was a recent vote taken, inconclusively, on AN or ANI to desysop Phil for abuse of admin privileges. Hopefully someone will add a section on that to this RfC.

Do link if you can find it.

[Pumpkin Muffins]

Fetch the popcorn

There was a recent vote taken, inconclusively, on AN or ANI to desysop Phil for abuse of admin privileges. Hopefully someone will add a section on that to this RfC.

I missed that one, do you have a link?

[Eva Destruction]

Fetch the popcorn

There was a recent vote taken, inconclusively, on AN or ANI to desysop Phil for abuse of admin privileges. Hopefully someone will add a section on that to this RfC.

Do link if you can find it.

Here.

[Floydsvoid]

I love SV's question

Phil, can you say what triggered your RfAr against Giano? The timing makes it look like payback for the FT2 situation. I'm not suggesting that's what it is, because I don't believe you would do that, but that's what it looks like. Was there a particular incident that prompted it?

and Phil's reply

No particular incident, no.

What is Slim up to? I have to confess, round these parts Hell is freezing over.

[everyking]

Fetch the popcorn

There was a recent vote taken, inconclusively, on AN or ANI to desysop Phil for abuse of admin privileges. Hopefully someone will add a section on that to this RfC.

Do link if you can find it.

Here.

This comment was priceless: "If Phil Sandifer continues to abuse his power we can discuss desysopping, but I don't see any reason to expect he'll do that in the future." If we can judge anything from four solid years of admin abuse, I think it's pretty damn likely that he's going to keep doing it.

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Back in his Snowspinner days, Phil was quite the drama magnet, but his profile seems to have drooped in recent years. Do you suppose he is trying rise once again to prominence on Giano's coattails?

[trenton]

This comment was priceless: "If Phil Sandifer continues to abuse his power we can discuss desysopping, but I don't see any reason to expect he'll do that in the future." If we can judge anything from four solid years of admin abuse, I think it's pretty damn likely that he's going to keep doing it.

The problem with these type of guys (eg Gerard, etc) is that they are kinda low-level abusive. Each new incident is not egregious enough to do anything, and most people don't remember all the past incidents.

Add to this a kangaroo court that arbitrarily decides that some stuff is too old even if it goes to show a pattern, and you end up with this.

[Cla68]

This comment was priceless: "If Phil Sandifer continues to abuse his power we can discuss desysopping, but I don't see any reason to expect he'll do that in the future." If we can judge anything from four solid years of admin abuse, I think it's pretty damn likely that he's going to keep doing it.

The problem with these type of guys (eg Gerard, etc) is that they are kinda low-level abusive. Each new incident is not egregious enough to do anything, and most people don't remember all the past incidents.

Add to this a kangaroo court that arbitrarily decides that some stuff is too old even if it goes to show a pattern, and you end up with this.

Good point.

[everyking]

This comment was priceless: "If Phil Sandifer continues to abuse his power we can discuss desysopping, but I don't see any reason to expect he'll do that in the future." If we can judge anything from four solid years of admin abuse, I think it's pretty damn likely that he's going to keep doing it.

The problem with these type of guys (eg Gerard, etc) is that they are kinda low-level abusive. Each new incident is not egregious enough to do anything, and most people don't remember all the past incidents.

Add to this a kangaroo court that arbitrarily decides that some stuff is too old even if it goes to show a pattern, and you end up with this.

Alternatively, if they've got it in for you, ancient history can and will be used against you, even if it has to be heavily distorted in the process (and anyway, it's easier to lie about things when hardly anyone remembers what actually happened). I was originally sentenced for events that occurred several months before my case began, and I am still paying for those events now, nearly four years after they occurred. Phil's successful wikicareer has depended wholly on this kind of blatant favoritism; no project with responsible governance would put up with it for nearly so long. Even now, when the ArbCom no longer accepts his cases on blind faith, it still treats him with remarkable deference by upholding a bogus restraining order meant to "protect" him.

[Milton Roe]

Phil Sandifer has requested arbitration against Giano. Unfortunately for Phil, railroading just isn't as easy now as it was back in 2005, and one arbitrator (Carcharoth) has already declined the case.

Didn't I tell you Carcharoth was a standup guy? This is the best arbcom we've ever had. Which is not saying much, but you learn to appreciate progress in any form.

[Crestatus]

This is the best arbcom we've ever had. Which is not saying much, but you learn to appreciate progress in any form.

This is, sadly, oh so true.

[InkBlot]

Alternatively, if they've got it in for you, ancient history can and will be used against you, even if it has to be heavily distorted in the process (and anyway, it's easier to lie about things when hardly anyone remembers what actually happened). I was originally sentenced for events that occurred several months before my case began, and I am still paying for those events now, nearly four years after they occurred. Phil's successful wikicareer has depended wholly on this kind of blatant favoritism; no project with responsible governance would put up with it for nearly so long. Even now, when the ArbCom no longer accepts his cases on blind faith, it still treats him with remarkable deference by upholding a bogus restraining order meant to "protect" him.

Even now, Betacommand is facing a permanent ban for sock evasion because an IP unrelated to his normal ISP made a few edits to an article BC had touched before his indef block. Although no one (including the Checkusers present) have indicated it a link, they did uncover two sock accounts, one of which BC has been using since his block without issue. So, of course, both have to be indef blocked and now he faces a ban...because "starting over" only applies to people without lynch mobs following them?

[everyking]

Phil Sandifer has requested arbitration against Giano. Unfortunately for Phil, railroading just isn't as easy now as it was back in 2005, and one arbitrator (Carcharoth) has already declined the case.

Didn't I tell you Carcharoth was a standup guy? This is the best arbcom we've ever had. Which is not saying much, but you learn to appreciate progress in any form.

Oh, I agree, they are shaping up to be very good on all matters except EK matters. I think their refusal to rehabilitate me speaks volumes, but still, progress is progress.

[Viridae]

Alternatively, if they've got it in for you, ancient history can and will be used against you, even if it has to be heavily distorted in the process (and anyway, it's easier to lie about things when hardly anyone remembers what actually happened). I was originally sentenced for events that occurred several months before my case began, and I am still paying for those events now, nearly four years after they occurred. Phil's successful wikicareer has depended wholly on this kind of blatant favoritism; no project with responsible governance would put up with it for nearly so long. Even now, when the ArbCom no longer accepts his cases on blind faith, it still treats him with remarkable deference by upholding a bogus restraining order meant to "protect" him.

Even now, Betacommand is facing a permanent ban for sock evasion because an IP unrelated to his normal ISP made a few edits to an article BC had touched before his indef block. Although no one (including the Checkusers present) have indicated it a link, they did uncover two sock accounts, one of which BC has been using since his block without issue. So, of course, both have to be indef blocked and now he faces a ban...because "starting over" only applies to people without lynch mobs following them?

No, starting over only applies to people who aren't already indefinitely blocked for repeatedly ignoring restrictions they were put under that they actually agreed to.

[InkBlot]

Even now, Betacommand is facing a permanent ban for sock evasion because an IP unrelated to his normal ISP made a few edits to an article BC had touched before his indef block. Although no one (including the Checkusers present) have indicated it a link, they did uncover two sock accounts, one of which BC has been using since his block without issue. So, of course, both have to be indef blocked and now he faces a ban...because "starting over" only applies to people without lynch mobs following them?

No, starting over only applies to people who aren't already indefinitely blocked for repeatedly ignoring restrictions they were put under that they actually agreed to.

Granted, he really messed up that time. What's often bugged me about Betacommand is that it always seems a common theme: his high speed image enforcement ruffles feathers, leads to complaints which are met with rudeness and incivility. OK, but once all the shouting and yelling is done on ANI, it boils down to: Betacommand was right, the image enforcement needs to occur, but BC is just downright rude to people.

The restrictions, from what I could tell, weren't to stop the work he was doing, but to slow it down enough that the complaints didn't cause a category 4 shitstorm on ANI every time he set off his bot. Even now, no one complained about whatever his sock accounts were doing, and wouldn't have even noticed if not for the checkuser.

I'm conflicted on his case, because I feel at this point he has flaunted enough restrictions and paroles that the ban is the only thing left, while at the same time I feel in some of the situations he was railroaded to this point. I don't like how things got here, but I agree with the consensus forming at ANI right now. Still, I think back to when I first noticied Betacommand being discussed there, and I felt like there was a core of editors who, whether they disagreed with the fair use policy or his interpretation of it, were out to stop him and his bot, no matter what. And today I think they're succeeding.

[Viridae]

Even now, Betacommand is facing a permanent ban for sock evasion because an IP unrelated to his normal ISP made a few edits to an article BC had touched before his indef block. Although no one (including the Checkusers present) have indicated it a link, they did uncover two sock accounts, one of which BC has been using since his block without issue. So, of course, both have to be indef blocked and now he faces a ban...because "starting over" only applies to people without lynch mobs following them?

No, starting over only applies to people who aren't already indefinitely blocked for repeatedly ignoring restrictions they were put under that they actually agreed to.

Granted, he really messed up that time. What's often bugged me about Betacommand is that it always seems a common theme: his high speed image enforcement ruffles feathers, leads to complaints which are met with rudeness and incivility. OK, but once all the shouting and yelling is done on ANI, it boils down to: Betacommand was right, the image enforcement needs to occur, but BC is just downright rude to people.

The restrictions, from what I could tell, weren't to stop the work he was doing, but to slow it down enough that the complaints didn't cause a category 4 shitstorm on ANI every time he set off his bot. Even now, no one complained about whatever his sock accounts were doing, and wouldn't have even noticed if not for the checkuser.

I'm conflicted on his case, because I feel at this point he has flaunted enough restrictions and paroles that the ban is the only thing left, while at the same time I feel in some of the situations he was railroaded to this point. I don't like how things got here, but I agree with the consensus forming at ANI right now. Still, I think back to when I first noticied Betacommand being discussed there, and I felt like there was a core of editors who, whether they disagreed with the fair use policy or his interpretation of it, were out to stop him and his bot, no matter what. And today I think they're succeeding.

They are only succeeding because he is allowing them to succeed. He has provided ammunition to his critics left right and center.