AntiSocial Media, Slideshow Presentation by Judd Bagley Options

[Hell Freezes Over]

Did you ever suspect that any of the above (either as Patrick Byrne actually wrote them, or your exaggerated versions) might do much less to harm you than being characterized like this and this and this (which were the first three I bumped into...there are literally hundreds of others just like them) on one of the top ten websites in the world might harm me?

I didn't write any of those. If you see anything I've written about you on WP that you find offensive, let me know and I'll consider removing it or striking it through.

I've never heard you go on record stating that it wasn't you.

This was always the old trick -- we're not libeling you unless you really are that person, and we'll be happy to help just as soon as you confirm that -- on the other hand, if you're *not* that person, it's not really about you, is it?

[WordBomb]

I didn't write any of those. If you see anything I've written about you on WP that you find offensive, let me know and I'll consider removing it or striking it through.

I'll take you up on that. In the meantime, you've missed my point: who can objectively look at what appears on ASM and Wikipedia and not conclude that, of the two, Wikipedia is the true attack site? It would be great if your concern were more consistently applied.

[Hell Freezes Over]

I didn't write any of those. If you see anything I've written about you on WP that you find offensive, let me know and I'll consider removing it or striking it through.

I'll take you up on that. In the meantime, you've missed my point: who can objectively look at what appears on ASM and Wikipedia and not conclude that, of the two, Wikipedia is the true attack site? It would be great if your concern were more consistently applied.

Well, ditto. Look, you posted a really horrible description of SlimVirgin -- me -- the person typing this. You did it anonymously, and only said who you were when the New York Post (as I recall) outed you. I've asked that it be taken down, but when I last checked it was still there. There's no evidence for it, and others have confirmed it has at least that one error about me having a Canadian accent, which puts in doubt all the other Canadiana (e.g. that I talked about my Canadian family of artists and intellectuals etc), and indeed all the rest, because the story of my accent switching was pivotal to the picture of someone so crazed, she couldn't even decide where she came from.

My point is that it's really quite hard for me to watch people who've done this kind of thing talk about BLP, yet make no effort to correct material that is entirely under their control. BLP applies to *all* living persons, and that includes me, notwithstanding that Jon has taken to calling me "it."

[Moulton]

Defamation, Narcissistic Wounding, and Scarlet Lettering are rampant practices in WikiCulture.

Perhaps someday, those who are stung by such practices will craft a Peace Treaty to discontinue those practices.

Perhaps.

Someday.

Perhaps.

[Jon Awbrey]

This was always the old trick — we're not libeling you unless you really are that person, and we'll be happy to help just as soon as you confirm that — on the other hand, if you're *not* that person, it's not really about you, is it?

No, it actually works this way — once you e-stablish beyond the Shadow of a Doubt that you are indeed the person being articulated about, that ipso fatso convicts you of COI, and then you get banned for trying to influence what is written about you.

Gee Wikilures, I should think you would know that.

Ja Ja Ja

[Daniel Brandt]

...it's really quite hard for me to watch people who've done this kind of thing talk about BLP, yet make no effort to correct material that is entirely under their control. BLP applies to *all* living persons, and that includes me, notwithstanding that Jon has taken to calling me "it."

This thread is bogged down with the little picture. Let's move on to the big picture.

My theory is that you left London for Canada under a false name in the mid or late 1990s (and may have had professional help in doing so), because you were worried that the defense in the al-Megrahi trial might compel you to testify. If they managed to call you as a hostile witness, you would almost certainly have been asked about various allegations that were made in the early 1990s concerning your possible connections to British intelligence.

Can you confirm or deny?

[gomi]

Slim, there is not one claim...not one...on ASM that is not supported by evidence.

I've not looked at it for a long time, but when I last checked, it had me running around college bars in Dickensian frocks, throwing my head in my hands and weeping at the slightest excuse, and switching between a Canadian and British accent because I had identity issues. When your boss uses a British accent to offer me a French fry, I take it as a mortal insult -- 20 years later I get the chance to help destroy the American economy by defending naked short selling on Wikipedia in order to avenge myself.

I was about to say you couldn't make it up, but that wouldn't be quite true, would it? :hmmm

Since they are clearly stated as the reminiscences of a named person, they are as much "evidence" as anything else. They are Byrne's memories, and as such may differ from yours or those of another, more neutral observer. That doesn't mean they are lies or fabrications, but it really doesn't much matter.

Many have commented that the chain of causality here is, indeed, pretty darn thin, but on the other hand the coincidence factor(s) are also just too much to swallow. It has been said that the difference between fiction and real life is that only fiction has a clear narrative line. In real life, shit pretty much just happens. It seems entirely plausible to me that most or all of the individual "facts" and reminiscences in ASM are correct, but that the narrative line is somewhat distorted. That SlimVirgin initially edited on Lockerbie (and went to pains to cover it up), is somehow connected with Cambridge (and went to pains to remove that connection), and was an admin supporter of Mantanmoreland seem virtually unassailable. If there is an error in the surrounding connective tissue, that doesn't seem to call the whole much into question.

Personally, I find it enlightening that, of all the claims made on ASM and elsewhere about Linda Mack and SlimVirgin, the ones with which you choose to quibble are ... frock dresses and accents! That says something all by itself.

[GlassBeadGame]

...it's really quite hard for me to watch people who've done this kind of thing talk about BLP, yet make no effort to correct material that is entirely under their control. BLP applies to *all* living persons, and that includes me, notwithstanding that Jon has taken to calling me "it."

That is wrong on so many levels, I choose Films for 200, Alex. My second favorite scene in Dr. Zhivago. What is the one where the old czarist uncle throws the "Confiscated for the People" sign to the side and marches into the farm house on his former country estate, saying "I'm the people, too?"

Films for 300. My favorite scene. What is the one where Zhivago's Bolshevik brother confronts an old officer who is pleading with his troops not to desert saying "But it's your country" and the Bolshevik then shoots him and replies "your country, officer" as the old man sinks into the rain barrel he was using as a soapbox?

[Hell Freezes Over]

That SlimVirgin initially edited on Lockerbie (and went to pains to cover it up), is somehow connected with Cambridge (and went to pains to remove that connection) ...

Yes, I've been trying for years to remove "this user is a Cantabrigian" from my user page, but I can't seem to work out how to get rid of it.

[Somey]

That's a rather crude way to lump together Wikipedians and make assumptions about their character....

True, but technically I didn't say that all Wikipedians are part of said mob. I'm still on the fence over the whole "if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem" thing, actually - in fact, I always have been.

[gomi]

…switching between a Canadian and British accent because I had identity issues.

I can't speak to the rest of it, but I will say that anyone who's spoken to Slim will quickly recognize a very obvious flaw in this claim.

Slim has a quite distinctive accent, actually - a regional British one - but it's a million miles away from anything Canadian

And Americans are notoriously bad at distinguishing British Commonwealth accents from one another. So what? I'm something of a connoisseur of Commonwealth accents, and there are still a few midlands accents that I can't distinguish from mild Australian ones.

I'm still on the fence over the whole "if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem" thing

But you are part of the precipitate.

That SlimVirgin initially edited on Lockerbie (and went to pains to cover it up), is somehow connected with Cambridge (and went to pains to remove that connection) ...

Yes, I've been trying for years to remove "this user is a Cantabrigian" from my user page, but I can't seem to work out how to get rid of it.

I was referring the the "slimvirgin" email address on the "Linda Mack" entry on the alumni site, actually.

[Hell Freezes Over]

My theory is that you left London for Canada under a false name in the mid or late 1990s (and may have had professional help in doing so), because you were worried that the defense in the al-Megrahi trial might compel you to testify. If they managed to call you as a hostile witness, you would almost certainly have been asked about various allegations that were made in the early 1990s concerning your possible connections to British intelligence.

Can you confirm or deny?

I should really try to find a way to capitalize on the exotic creature you've created. Perhaps I could record a pop song. Moulton could help with the lyrics.

(ZOMG, she's not denying it, so it must be true!)



This post has been edited by Hell Freezes Over: Fri 6th March 2009, 10:49pm

[written by he who wrote it]

Slim has a quite distinctive accent, actually - a regional British one - but it's a million miles away from anything Canadian

And Americans are notoriously bad at distinguishing British Commonwealth accents from one another. So what? I'm something of a connoisseur of Commonwealth accents, and there are still a few midlands accents that I can't distinguish from mild Australian ones.

Nobody* could confuse British and Canadian accents. Canadian English resembles American more than it does any other Commonwealth accent.




*Nobody who knows anything about accents of English other than their own, that is.

This post has been edited by written by he who wrote it: Fri 6th March 2009, 10:56pm

[Somey]

This was always the old trick -- we're not libeling you unless you really are that person, and we'll be happy to help just as soon as you confirm that -- on the other hand, if you're *not* that person, it's not really about you, is it?

Hardly a "trick" - for good or ill, that's exactly how it works, from both a legal and ethical standpoint.

Anyway, at the risk of repeating myself redundantly for the umpteenth time again, there's really no point in challenging SV here over the whole IRL-identification issue - that poodle just won't hunt, as they say.

[tarantino]

And Americans are notoriously bad at distinguishing British Commonwealth accents from one another. So what? I'm something of a connoisseur of Commonwealth accents, and there are still a few midlands accents that I can't distinguish from mild Australian ones.

Well, Alison is an Irish National and Proab's a linguist. I suspect they're somewhat better at identifying Commonwealth accents than the typical American.

[Somey]

I should really try to find a way to capitalize on the exotic creature you've created.

Why not make her the main character in a series of lurid spy novels? Seriously, you've already got a following, so you're guaranteed at least enough sales to break even, even if you self-publish.

I mean, I'd do it in a heartbeat, if it were me...

[Hell Freezes Over]

I should really try to find a way to capitalize on the exotic creature you've created.

Why not make her the main character in a series of lurid spy novels? Seriously, you've already got a following, so you're guaranteed at least enough sales to break even, even if you self-publish.

I mean, I'd do it in a heartbeat, if it were me...

Perhaps you could ghost-write it. Or I could sell you the rights to my personal story ... not that it *is* my personal story, you understand. You have a film director here too, so what with Moulton's song, your novel, and his movie, I might end up having cause to thank Daniel Brandt. It's a horrible thought but I was trained to be ready for anything.

[Somey]

Perhaps you could ghost-write it. Or I could sell you the rights to my personal story ...

Okay... Just tell me what name to put on the check!

I'm thinking a sort of Our Man Flint meets Bridget Jones' Diary kinda thang here.

[Hell Freezes Over]

Perhaps you could ghost-write it. Or I could sell you the rights to my personal story ...

Okay... Just tell me what name to put on the check!

All you'll need is a box number.

I'm thinking a sort of Our Man Flint meets Bridget Jones' Diary kinda thang here.

I actually did come up with a synopsis last year. It involved Daniel Brandt being accidentally killed by the Animal Liberation Front.

[Alison]

Can I just say that this whole thread is very surreal indeed

Slimvirgin, Judd Bagley and Daniel Brandt in the one, really strange conversation. I never thought I'd see the day ...