Who is this?, If "she's" the one on the right, va va va voom!! Options Rating

[Kato]

Surely you mean this Steven McGeady.

So, because he defended a convicted Taliban…um…"militant," he gets to impersonate innocent women now?

Not quite following this chain of illogic…

It's about as (il)logical as SlimVirgin saying she had "no idea" that Iron Duke was targeting Gomi's real life persona.

[Kato]

So let's just clarify this story a little -

• Iron Duke begins inserting "patently false information into an article as an attack (see Talk:Reed College/drug use dispute)" (according to a neutral observer on his RFA) .
• Gomi edit wars with him about it.
• Iron Duke then finds out who he is - and starts trying to "out" him, and get him removed from the articles under WPs absurd Conflict Of Interest policies
• Iron Duke turns to Gomi's personal life. And starts editing articles relating to him specifically - clearly to goad him after failing in the dispute.
• SlimVirgin steps in, who was in contact with Iron Duke previously, tells Gomi there is nothing he can do about it.
• Gomi therefore creates sockpuppets - creating bogus characters to avoid WPs absurd Conflict Of Interest policies, and get Iron Duke seen to - which should have been the responsibility of admins like SlimVirgin.
• SlimVirgin bans the sockpuppets.
• So now, unable to counter edits with his main account, and unable to counter edits with sockpuppets, there is nothing Gomi can do about Iron Duke.
• Slim nominates Iron Duke for adminship (which fails spectacularly incidentally)

[Jon Awbrey]

So let's just clarify this story a little —

• Iron Duke begins inserting "patently false information into an article as an attack (see Talk:Reed College/drug use dispute)" (according to a neutral observer on his RFA) .
• Gomi edit wars with him about it.
• Iron Duke then finds out who he is — and starts trying to "out" him, and get him removed from the articles under WPs absurd Conflict Of Interest policies
• Iron Duke turns to Gomi's personal life. And starts editing articles relating to him specifically — clearly to goad him after failing in the dispute.
• SlimVirgin steps in, who was in contact with Iron Duke previously, tells Gomi there is nothing he can do about it.
• Gomi therefore creates sockpuppets — creating bogus characters to avoid WPs absurd Conflict Of Interest policies, and get Iron Duke seen to — which should have been the responsibility of admins like SlimVirgin.
• SlimVirgin bans the sockpuppets.
• So now, unable to counter edits with his main account, and unable to counter edits with sockpuppets, there is nothing Gomi can do about Iron Duke.
• Slim nominates Iron Duke for adminship (which fails spectacularly incidentally)

I hope that some people are beginning to notice the generic character of this little scenario, as the very same plot dynamics gets played out time and time again on The Wikipedia Show.

Jon

[The Adversary]

<snip summary>

And I think we can add the most shocking thing about the whole affair (IMHO): they do not see that they did anything wrong.

It was not G. who started the war.
That is the simple fact.
And still ms. Hell has the chutzpah to "being astonished at the backlash from G."

Oh, and IronDuke has never been punished for what he did, and has been editing happily ever after.

As Jon says: it´s generic.

[Proabivouac]

So let's just clarify this story a little - [list]
…
[*]Gomi therefore creates sockpuppets - creating bogus characters to avoid WPs absurd Conflict Of Interest policies…

Without prejudice towards any other elements of your revised timeline, is it the position of this Review now that, if someone has had a run-in with SlimVirgin, that it is perfectly understandable that he/she impersonate third parties? Can we assume that all staff, mods and posters to the Review who have had negative experiences with SlimVirgin are doing this as well, with the approval of mods and staff?

[The Adversary]

So let's just clarify this story a little - [list]
…
[*]Gomi therefore creates sockpuppets - creating bogus characters to avoid WPs absurd Conflict Of Interest policies…

Without prejudice towards any other elements of your revised timeline, is it the position of this Review now that, if someone has had a run-in with SlimVirgin, that it is perfectly understandable that he/she impersonate third parties? Can we assume that all staff, mods and posters to the Review who have had negative experiences with SlimVirgin are doing this as well, with the approval of mods and staff?

What an absurd question.
Firstly: when did the Review agree about anything? If there is an official policy of the Review, then somebody forgot to tell me.
What I have said is that you have to look at who started this, and you don´t want to do that, do you Proab?

And for the record; no, I do not approve of everything G. possibly can have done in the war against WP. But, if you are given extremely good reason to loose every bit of respect for WP, then I am not surprised.

Finally, please tell me, Proab, are you co-operating with ms. Hell in order to out me, now?

[Kato]

So let's just clarify this story a little - [list]
…
[*]Gomi therefore creates sockpuppets - creating bogus characters to avoid WPs absurd Conflict Of Interest policies…

Without prejudice towards any other elements of your revised timeline, is it the position of this Review now that, if someone has had a run-in with SlimVirgin, that it is perfectly understandable that he/she impersonate third parties? Can we assume that all staff, mods and posters to the Review who have had negative experiences with SlimVirgin are doing this as well, with the approval of mods and staff?

I don't think so.

But it is safe to say that if someone like Iron Duke starts using Wikipedia to add "patently false information into an article as an attack" and gets the approval of WP's power elite (headed by SlimVirgin) to do so, then whatever the victims do to seek recourse is their business. You don't have to agree with their methods, and I don't agree with a lot of them myself, but then they don't need anyone's "approval".

As Reviewers, we can watch on and give analysis.

Here's my analysis:

Particularly around the period discussed (2006ish), the Wikipedia "community" was a total disgrace. People like SlimVirgin wielded way too much power in a grossly uneven fashion, and used the farcical policies (in this case the Conflict of Interest policy) at a whim to attack or ban opponents. As a result, numerous people were mistreated, and these people were not going to take it lying down. A myriad of long lasting disputes developed, which Slim made no attempt to relinquish or resolve. This made SlimVirgin arguably Wikipedia's most regrettable arrival, alongside people like Grawp, JzG, WillyonWheels etc.

Anyone disagree with that?

[Random832]

So let's just clarify this story a little - [list]
…
[*]Gomi therefore creates sockpuppets - creating bogus characters to avoid WPs absurd Conflict Of Interest policies…

Without prejudice towards any other elements of your revised timeline, is it the position of this Review now that, if someone has had a run-in with SlimVirgin, that it is perfectly understandable that he/she impersonate third parties?

I missed the part where you presented evidence that he impersonated third parties. I'll note that this is not what Kato said.

[Jon Awbrey]

As Reviewers, we can watch on and give analysis.

Here's my analysis:

Particularly around the period discussed (2006ish), the Wikipedia "community" was a total disgrace. People like SlimVirgin wielded way too much power in a grossly uneven fashion, and used the farcical policies (in this case the Conflict of Interest policy) at a whim to attack or ban opponents. As a result, numerous people were mistreated, and these people were not going to take it lying down. A myriad of long lasting disputes developed, which Slim made no attempt to relinquish or resolve. This made SlimVirgin arguably Wikipedia's most regrettable arrival, alongside people like Grawp, JzG, WillyonWheels etc.

Anyone disagree with that?

The exception I would have to take is to the implication that Wikipedia is now or ever will be different than it was then.

The dynamics that we watched being played out in this particular trajectory is built-in, generic, and persistent. It pollinated the blooms and germinated the seeds that flowered again and again as Essjay, FeloniousMonk, Jayjg, KillerChihuahua, SlimVirgin — the whole Garden Variety of WikiPod People — and it will just keep doing that in each new season as long as the same roots remain in place.

Jon Awbrey

[Daniel Brandt]

Hey Slim, is this photo on Twitter really you? It makes you look 30 years younger. I guess Wikipedia agrees with you — it's turning you into a teenager!




( Note added 2009-04-23: Two days ago, Photobucket censored this pic, which was Slim's original pic on Twitter. Here is a copy of that pic. )

[GlassBeadGame]

So let's just clarify this story a little - [list]
…
[*]Gomi therefore creates sockpuppets - creating bogus characters to avoid WPs absurd Conflict Of Interest policies…

Without prejudice towards any other elements of your revised timeline, is it the position of this Review now that, if someone has had a run-in with SlimVirgin, that it is perfectly understandable that he/she impersonate third parties? Can we assume that all staff, mods and posters to the Review who have had negative experiences with SlimVirgin are doing this as well, with the approval of mods and staff?

I don't think so.

But it is safe to say that if someone like Iron Duke starts using Wikipedia to add "patently false information into an article as an attack" and gets the approval of WP's power elite (headed by SlimVirgin) to do so, then whatever the victims do to seek recourse is their business. You don't have to agree with their methods, and I don't agree with a lot of them myself, but then they don't need anyone's "approval".

As Reviewers, we can watch on and give analysis.

Here's my analysis:

Particularly around the period discussed (2006ish), the Wikipedia "community" was a total disgrace. People like SlimVirgin wielded way too much power in a grossly uneven fashion, and used the farcical policies (in this case the Conflict of Interest policy) at a whim to attack or ban opponents. As a result, numerous people were mistreated, and these people were not going to take it lying down. A myriad of long lasting disputes developed, which Slim made no attempt to relinquish or resolve. This made SlimVirgin arguably Wikipedia's most regrettable arrival, alongside people like Grawp, JzG, WillyonWheels etc.

Anyone disagree with that?

The only thing I would add s that we need to note how deeply the damage Slim inflicts seems to run. Her victims are so cowed that she and her Stazi pal are able to waltz into another completely independent website and act the Wikipedian Secret Police and harangue a staff person with accusation of petty misconduct years ago on their website. The very same people that she has played like a fiddle on Wikipedia let her get away with this. They both need to be shown the door. This could best be achieved by the former victims acting in open defiance and outrage. Wikipedia is unmatched in it's vicious unrelenting vindictiveness towards anyone who dissents.

Perhaps Wikipedia needs a disclaimer: "Our warlords own any article they wish to control. They have free range to add any bigoted content they want, especially in relation to any unpopular persons or causes. If you wish to contest this you do so at your own risk. We reserve the right to malign you and and any business, civic, educational or social institution you value. We will pursue you into other websites or even into your professional and personal life and do this even years later."

[Kato]

I wouldn't go that far, Beadgame.

Critics are just as bad at bringing up tedious old disputes and going on revenge sprees.

And Slim has the right to defend herself from criticisms.

Mostly, I wish this whole Wikipediot bullshit would end - that these juvenile disputes don't even get to this site in first place. That's why I had high hopes for WPs "Admin Watch" project.

[GlassBeadGame]

I wouldn't go that far, Beadgame.

Critics are just as bad at bringing up tedious old disputes and going on revenge sprees.

And Slim has the right to defend herself from criticisms.

Mostly, I wish this whole Wikipediot bullshit would end - that these disputes don't even get to this site in first place. That's why I had high hopes for "Admin Watch".

I think you just swallowed some "false equivalence" juice, or maybe worse. Slim has caused the banning of of Wikipedians for less intrusion into the lives of others.

[Jon Awbrey]

I wouldn't go that far, Beadgame.

Critics are just as bad at bringing up tedious old disputes and going on revenge sprees.

And Slim has the right to defend herself from criticisms.

Mostly, I wish this whole Wikipediot bullshit would end — that these juvenile disputes don't even get to this site in first place. That's why I had high hopes for WPs "Admin Watch" project.

Tree … Tree … Tree … Tree … Tree … Tree …
What forest? I don't see no stinkin' forest!

Ja Ja

[the fieryangel]

I wouldn't go that far, Beadgame.

Critics are just as bad at bringing up tedious old disputes and going on revenge sprees.

And Slim has the right to defend herself from criticisms.

Mostly, I wish this whole Wikipediot bullshit would end - that these disputes don't even get to this site in first place. That's why I had high hopes for "Admin Watch".

I think you just swallowed some "false equivalence" juice, or maybe worse. Slim has caused the banning of of Wikipedians for less intrusion into the lives of others.

How does any of this magically make using another person's photo to make anonymous posts on Wikipedia okay?

I don't think that two wrongs make a right, GBG. And okay, so the system is corrupt and socking is one way to fight back. I agree with that.

Just don't use somebody else's photo to do it.

[Moulton]

Free the Feral Bards!

Two wrongs don't make a right,
And two rhymes don't make a quatrain.

[GlassBeadGame]

I wouldn't go that far, Beadgame.

Critics are just as bad at bringing up tedious old disputes and going on revenge sprees.

And Slim has the right to defend herself from criticisms.

Mostly, I wish this whole Wikipediot bullshit would end - that these disputes don't even get to this site in first place. That's why I had high hopes for "Admin Watch".

I think you just swallowed some "false equivalence" juice, or maybe worse. Slim has caused the banning of of Wikipedians for less intrusion into the lives of others.

How does any of this magically make using another person's photo to make anonymous posts on Wikipedia okay?

I don't think that two wrongs make a right, GBG.

Well of course we don't know anything about the person in the pic including whether it was used with permission, which would not be an intrusion at all would it? Just some "crime" against Wikipedia. Even if appropriated without permission it is a petty offense. Hardly worth Proab sniffing anyone's panties over.

Hacking email accounts is serious. Intimidating Lar is serious. Acting with bigotry towards transgender persons is serious. "Fooling" Wikipedia is not serious.

[gomi]

Who illegally broke into Baxter's email account? ..... Answer my question, Proab.

I was told secondhand that the person who gained access to Mr. Baxter's email ..... I have no idea whether this was illegal.

Gomi?

Regardless of the perceived moral correctness (or lack thereof) of the retribution, accessing a computer account not your own and without permission is generally a criminal offense in the United States and most other developed countries.

[Herschelkrustofsky]

I hope that some people are beginning to notice the generic character of this little scenario, as the very same plot dynamics gets played out time and time again on The Wikipedia Show.

Yes, as you mentioned earlier, it's a template. I think that the reason that SV is such a lightning rod for disgruntled editors is that she perfected the art of abusing admin powers in the service of a POV agenda to a high degree. She's the Lara Croft of WikiMMORPGism.

[the fieryangel]

Well of course we don't know anything about the person in the pic including whether it was used with permission, which would not be an intrusion at all would it? Just some "crime" against Wikipedia. Even if appropriated without permission it is a petty offense. Hardly worth Proab sniffing anyone's panties over.

All of that depends on who the girl in the photo is and how she feels about having her image used this way. If she knew about it and was okay with that, then this falls into the category of "lèse-Wikipedia". But ultimately, it's up to her to decide.

Using a pic of a cute girl to sock is just a dumb idea because you're going to get found out...and when you do get found out, you look pretty silly.

I'm at the point where I see any people using cute girls' photos and I just automatically assume that it's a fifty-something man...