The Herschelkrustofsky ban revisited, SV and her posse at work Options

[Herschelkrustofsky]

I am posting this in response to comments made by Hell Freezes Over in some recent threads.

9 days ago, this page at Wikipedia was deleted. Don't ask me why. It provided a useful chronology of how I was driven off the project. It included a description of my role in the Nobs01 and others arbcom case. I was the only respondent who was not named in the proposed findings of fact. If I had kept my mouth shut, nothing would have happened to me. Because I insisted on speaking out, asserting that the penalties doled out by the arbcom were inequitable (Cberlet was "cautioned," others who had committed comparable offenses were blocked or placed on probation,) I was place on indefinite probation. Fred Bauder justified this decision in the following way:

15) In view of the dissatisfaction expressed by Herschelkrustofsky with the decisions reached in this case, and the apparent lack of insight into any role his own behavior played in the creation and aggravation of the problems which gave rise to this case, he is placed indefinitely on Wikipedia:Probation.

Since this was a little too obvious, Raul654 covered the tracks with this edit.

This action set the stage for what followed. Slim and Will Beback began wikistalking me to various articles, accusing me of adding ideas which they alleged were similar to ideas advocated at one time or another by LaRouche (see Searching for LaRouche under the bed.) They were assisted by 172 (T-C-L-K-R-D) in setting a trap for me (into which I foolishly walked) at Synarchism (T-H-L-K-D). The article did not mention LaRouche, until 172 added a bunch of defamatory crap about LaRouche, which I should have ignored, because the article has probably been read by about six people. But, I removed it, and was charged with "editing a LaRouche-related article," in violation of probation. I protested that it was not a LaRouche-related article, and Slim's response was [paraphrase]"It is now."[/paraphrase]

Now, you can still read this page, some great stuff which I excerpted from the ANI board. The admin who deleted my user page missed it. Hurry! Also, as a sort of postscript, this one, extracted from User talk:SlimVirgin.

[Hell Freezes Over]

This action set the stage for what followed. Slim and Will Beback began wikistalking me to various articles, accusing me of adding ideas which they alleged were similar to ideas advocated at one time or another by LaRouche ...

Your opening a thread about your WP editing puts me in an awkward position. I'm able to show that you had a serious conflict of interest (not just as a LaRouche follower), and that you misled people about your sockpuppets, but doing that would require me to post material that leads to a name, home address, telephone number, and place of work. I'd be banned if I were to do that.

So let me simply ask you this instead. Do you believe Lyndon LaRouche is a reliable source (in Wikipedia terms or in any other)? Do you believe his views should be added to WP articles? Do you believe WP articles should be created about his real or proposed projects, when his publications are the only sources that mention them?

[Kato]

Your opening a thread about your WP editing puts me in an awkward position. I'm able to show that you had a serious conflict of interest (not just as a LaRouche follower)

People here were able to show that Jossi Fresco had a serious conflict of interest. He was a PR worker for Prem Ruwat, cult leader.

No one at Wikipedia gave a crap. Jimbo Wales even wrote that Jossi was "a great Wikipedian" after it was made public. What Jossi was up to on Wikipedia didn't bother me. What bothered me was that your "serious conflicts of interest" were treated in an arbitrary and unfair way with punishments meted out to some but not others.

I've looked at virtually every edit Hersch has made, and I see no difference in principle between his edits and Jossi Fresco's.

Shouldn't edits be judged on their merits? Or should users be profiled; "tracked down to a name, home address, telephone number, and place of work", and railroaded off no matter what they've been writing on Wikipedia?

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Here's you giving Jossi your approval:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jossi/Awards

The Barnstar of Diligence
For your steadfastness, faith, great negotiating skills, and all your hard work in keeping the new policy alive and smoothing the transition from the past to the future. :-) SlimVirgin (talk) 00:24, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

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Here's what happened when someone gave Herschelkrustofsky one of those barnstars:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&oldid=18172179

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This brings me back to my main thesis:

I believe that you, Slim, were responsible for fostering a damaging culture that warped the notions of "outing" and "conflicts of interest" - that exploited memes of "stalking and harrassment" ("I could be killed if exposed") which ultimately, like the ludicrous anti-LaRouche campaign and many others, subverted Wikipedia from within, causing massive problems for many people. Add to that the blatant cronyism, which you exemplified, and you have the definition of a dysfunctional and dangerous process.

[Hell Freezes Over]

Shouldn't edits be judged on their merits?

Very much so. What do you think about this article of HK's, as an example? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...e&oldid=3820805

Is there such a thing as the Eurasian Land Bridge? Is it connected to the [[Asian Highway Network]] that it redirects to? LaRouche's wife was photographed standing next to its supposed entrance, as though she were opening it, or were somehow responsible for it.

Perhaps HK can explain what it is?

This post has been edited by Hell Freezes Over: Sun 12th April 2009, 3:26am

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Do you believe Lyndon LaRouche is a reliable source (in Wikipedia terms or in any other)? Do you believe his views should be added to WP articles? Do you believe WP articles should be created about his real or proposed projects, when his publications are the only sources that mention them?

1. LaRouche's publications are reliable sources for his own views under WP:SELFPUB.

2. LaRouche publications are reliable sources for the views of notable persons who have granted them interviews. (answer continues below)

What do you think about this article of HK's, as an example? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...e&oldid=3820805

Is there such a thing as the Eurasian Land Bridge? Is it connected to the [[Asian Highway Network]] that it redirects to? LaRouche's wife was photographed standing next to its supposed entrance, as though she were opening it, or were somehow responsible for it.

Perhaps HK can explain what it is?

The Eurasian Land Bridge was a proposal that LaRouche made back in the early 90s. Without question, the proposal exists. Your tactic was to use a bit of sleight of hand, and argue that my article claimed that it had been completed. This tactic evidently worked on credulous people who didn't read the article. Here is the photo in question, which shows LaRouche's wife being interviewed in front of a memorial built by the Chinese government, which is labeled, in English, "Eastern Terminal of Eurasia Landbridge." If you want to refer to it as the "supposed entrance," go ahead, it's a free country. Ms. LaRouche was in China at the invitation of the Chinese government, to speak on her husband's proposal. Refresh my memory -- was it you, or Will Beback that had the image deleted from Wikipedia on the grounds that it was "misleading"?

In this version of the Eurasian Land-Bridge article, there were two solid sources that are not LaRouche sources (one of them is now a dead link.)

[CharlotteWebb]

Here is the photo in question, which shows LaRouche's wife being interviewed in front of a memorial built by the Chinese government, which is labeled, in English, "Eastern Terminal of Eurasia Landbridge." If you want to refer to it as the "supposed entrance," go ahead, it's a free country.

Yeah but China isn't. Let's just call it an on-ramp for the sake of argument. Are you asserting that the yellow letters were not in fact added in post-production?

...it was forty minutes before SV first decided to follow me to the bio of Folke Bernadotte...

Does this have something to do with Krustofsky, LaRouche, Brautigan, or the price of land-bridges in the PRC?

This post has been edited by CharlotteWebb: Sun 12th April 2009, 1:52pm

[Mackan]

...it was forty minutes before SV first decided to follow me to the bio of Folke Bernadotte...

Does this have something to do with Krustofsky, LaRouche, Brautigan, or the price of land-bridges in the PRC?

I'm sorry, I thought the Bernadotte/Brautigan/land-bridge connection was obvious.

I'm just saying: It's nearly impossible to go back and tell who was being especially reasonable with who else this long ago. You can do it, just as long as you have days or weeks to throw away. What I know is that in the few cases I've been aware of, SV made an artform of tweaking people in just the right way. The way she did it also showed a basic disregard for social mores (honesty, golden rules, etc.) that I think is hard to look past as she tries to claim that all of the opposition to her on this site stems from inventions of HK.

This post has been edited by Mackan: Sun 12th April 2009, 11:13pm