High School kid who pretends to be a cop up for CU?, ...and ArbCom asked him to stump??? Options

[the fieryangel]

The good sire Tarantino, who is currently away, has apparently discovered a very interesting situation involving Tiptoety (T-C-L-K-R-D) who has been asked by Arbcom to stand for the Check User elections. Since he is a clerk at Wikipedia Sockpuppet investigations, this might seem like a reasonable nomination. However it would seem that Mr. Tiptoety has a rather...how shall we say?....strong interest in law enforcement in general, sometimes to the point of pretending to be a police officer, even though he appears to be in High school (or at least, was at the time of his adminstration nom.):

# Strong support Seen this user around many times while doing vandalism reverts. I would like to see a police officer be an admin on Wikipedia. NHRHS2010 talk 10:33, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment I've always been curious, since it appears the user is still in high school (I could be wrong about that), in what capacity he serves as a police officer (this is per the userbox on his user page). Tiptoety, could you clarify that? Katr67 11:23, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment More than that, it would appear that this user is also an emergency responder - seems bizzare to be both, and still in high school (by the looks of things). Having said that, I would certainly like to hear why NHRHS2010 thinks that we need a police officer as an admin on Wikipedia. A police officer, in my opinion, won't necessarily make any better an admin than (for want of a better expression) a normal person. TheIslander 13:19, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment: If either of you have any evidence or proof that he is, indeed, a high school student, hadn't you best provide it here rather than simply making it seem as though Tiptoety is fabricating his identity? Otherwise it would seem you're derailing this RFA with non-issues that could sway people in their support or dissent. Thank you. Jeffpw 13:29, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Whilst I totally agree with Jeffpw that this does not seem to be helpful in terms of this RfA, it is hard to reconcile this diff [1] with the assertions of being a law enforcement officer. Normally the police don't get grounded by their parents ...... Pedro : Chat 13:39, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment Quite right, Jeffpw, I should have cited what Pedro just has. Appologies. TheIslander 14:15, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment - I admit that dif is disconcerting. That said, it could have been a joke. Until Tiptoety is here to answer for himself, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he was being playful when he put that on his page. Naturally, if it turns out he has misrepresented who he is, I will withdraw my support. Not for his age (I know other teen admins here who do a great job), but for the misrepresentation. Jeffpw 14:24, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, i am a student in a high school, but also serve as an employee of the Police Bureau as a Law Enforcement Cadet. I looked for a userbox that would state that but was un-able to find, so i used the next best thing. A police cadet does the same things as a police offices, except they are under 21 which means no gun, and can not operate and emergency vehicle with lights and sirens. Take a look here: [2]. Cheers! Tiptoety 14:34, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for clearing that up, Tiptoety. I was sure there must be some logical explanation for that. You seemed to have too strong an ethical code to have lied to the community. If you need help making a police cadet userbox, hit me up. It goes without saying you have my continued support for this nomination. Jeffpw 14:40, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment Yes, thank you Tiptoety for clearing that up. I figured it was something like that, judging by your interest in search and rescue. I in no way meant to imply that being in high school is a reason to oppose, nor was I saying you attempted to misrepresent yourself on purpose. It is bothersome to know, however, you don't know enough about wikicoding to perhaps "subst" the userbox and then change the text to more appropriately reflect your status. Katr67 15:29, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment Echoed - thanks for clearing that up, Tiptoety. Having said that, I still wonder about the Emergency Responder box... TheIslander 16:47, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Response - Thank you to everyone who understood the situation! I am glad that is cleared up, and have fixed the userbox issue on my userpage. On the topic of the first responder box, I am indeed a first responder (it stems from my work with Search and Rescue). Cheers! Tiptoety 18:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

In case anyone's in any doubt, Tiptoey has always been clear on this and isn't trying to mislead anyone - see this conversation for example. — iridescent 19:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Tiptoey I'm concerned by this "A police cadet does the same things as a police offices" which I highly doubt. Without going through the DPSST I doubt you can arrest anyone as a cadet (other than citizens arrest) or issue citations. Is this correct? Aboutmovies 19:33, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Is this really relevant anymore to this RfA? It's been cleared up that he wasn't intentionally misleading anyone, if you wish to argue what a police cadet can and can not do, wouldn't it be better to use email, or a talk page instead? KnowledgeOfSelf | talk 23:45, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

No it has not been cleared up. This user has a history of misrepresentation (I don’t care if its intentional or not) including where in the oppose section someone pointed out this user did this which is far more troubling than the userbox issue. But Tiptoey says it was a misunderstanding, but says they are basically a cop minus a gun. I don’t think that’s true. Simply put, Tiptoey made a mistake, now he just needs own up to it completely. It’s the same thing as the copyvio issue. He’s trying to wriggle around it and make it seem not so bad, which is not owning up to the problem. Own up to the problem, reform, and come back to RFA in a few months. And I’m not sure why you think this was resolved. The only action in this thread of the RFA contributed by Tiptoey since their comment I quoted, is that he removed the user box, that doesn’t address the other claim of being a police officer made by this RFA candidate, which seems to continue when you make comments about cadets being cops minus a gun. Aboutmovies 00:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

How is this relevant to this RfA? That is what I am asking. How is the difference between being a cadet and an actual police officer relevant to this RfA? KnowledgeOfSelf | talk 00:42, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

It's (possibly weakly) relevant 'cause it shows trust issues. There was confusion as to how a high school person could be a Police Officer, and Tiptoety cleared that up. However, since that things have surfaced where Tiptoety has claimed to be a Police Officer, yet he states here that he is not. There are definite honesty issues here, which is why this is being discussed. TheIslander 01:19, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

It is relevant because as many people have pointed out, can Tiptoey be trusted with the tools.?To analyze this you start with the editors trustworthiness. The above issues demonstrate their are issues with that trustworthiness. Note, its not that there is from a WikiPedia editing difference, anything relevant to cop vs. cadet. It has to do with Tiptoey's response to this issue of misrepresenting himself as a police officer, and then when called on it trying to mitigate it by saying, well I'm a cadet so the only difference is I don't have a gun so really its no big deal. Yes, it is a big deal. I don't know about you but I don't go around WikiPedia telling people/implying to others that I'm a lawyer, when really I'm a law student. First it's border line illegal (impersonating a law enforcement officer is usually illegal), and second what good does it do for the project? Look, we all make mistakes, but if you want to be an admin you better own up to those mistakes, whether that be copyvio issues or saying you are a cop when you are not. Notice below the person who added the info about the claim of being a cop is apparently a law enforcement person, so I'll take their word that their is serious issue and difference with cadet v. cop. Aboutmovies 05:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Then the response to this issue has been (at least to me) more of a trying to avoid responsibility That raises issues of trust, and that is obviously related to being an admin.

Ummm, I still don't get it, maybe it's how we are interpreting this section of the discussion, but Tiptoety states "I looked for a userbox that would state that but was un-able to find, so i used the next best thing." Also in this conversation he states that he is a cadet. So he couldn't find the correct userbox, that makes him untrustworthy? He made a mistake with adding content that was a copyvio. Mistakes happen, people are human. I dunno, this is just my 2 cents, but it seems like your consistent issue about this is very overbearing. He's made some mistakes, if you choose to oppose because of them that is your prerogative. But you seem to be making a big deal over the comment "A police cadet does the same things as a police offices, except they are under 21 which means no gun." What does that have to do with this RfA? I just don't get it. KnowledgeOfSelf | talk 06:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether it's relevant to this RFA or not, but in terms of the link above where Tiptoety says "I am a police officer" -- Tiptoety, please don't do that anymore. It's well-intentioned, but misleading. I don't think it reflects on your honesty or anything like that (particularly since you're kinda like a police officer), but it's a bad idea for a variety of reasons. That said, I haven't had the pleasure of meeting the candidate on here, so I'm not expressing any opinion of the RFA (and from all accounts he seems like a good guy). --TheOtherBob 18:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

No you don't seem to get it, its not about the userbox, its about his responses after the userbox part was "fixed" if you will. Note, again, there are two instances where it appears Tiptoey has represented he is a cop, the userbox, and far more troubling the Admin noticboard incident. Those are both mistakes, and the problem I have is Tiptoey's response to the community's concerns about the userbox, and more importantly the second incident. I asked a simple question, you have decided that you wanted to say its not relevant, all I want is a response from the candidate. Now if you really want to analyze the userbox, its not that he couldn't find the right userbox, its how he responded to the concern, oh its no big deal since a cadet is really just a cop without a gun. Well a private citizen is really just a cop without the authority, but if I misrepresent that I am a cop when I am not, then I get a free ticket to jail. So the problem I have is that Tiptoey was trying to downplay these misrepresentations, instead of owning up to the mistakes. Changing the userbox is the first step, but this comes across as very insincere when you try to downplay the problem. Aboutmovies 21:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Aboutmovies's comment was below mine, but I'm pretty sure it responds to the one above mine. To be clear, I don't hold any opinion here other than that Tiptoety shouldn't claim to be a police officer until he is one. --TheOtherBob 21:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

From IP information gleaned from Wikipedia Watch and Sam Spade, which I won't go into here, it would appear that Tiptoety has a history of making claims about being a law enforcement officer on other sites.

Now, does Wikipedia really want a younger kid who has obviously has a law enforcement fetish to handle this type of serious information? I see red lights going off all over the place here and this person seems to me to be the very last person who should have access to CU tools on the English Wikipedia.

[tarantino]

According to Nathan, Tip toe Tyler is now a cop.

Some voter may want to ask him about 63.105.27.175 (T-C-L-K-R-D) , an IP that Ty edited from for over a year. It was also used to vandalize his user page, the disambiguation page for tit and add a photo of porn star Jenna Haze to Category:Earls in the Peerage of England on commons.

[Eva Destruction]

According to Nathan, Tip toe Tyler is now a cop.

Some voter may want to ask him about 63.105.27.175 (T-C-L-K-R-D) , an IP that Ty edited from for over a year. It was also used to vandalize his user page, the disambiguation page for tit and add a photo of porn star Jenna Haze to Category:Earls in the Peerage of England on commons.

Open proxy.

[No one of consequence]

According to Nathan, Tip toe Tyler is now a cop.

Some voter may want to ask him about 63.105.27.175 (T-C-L-K-R-D) , an IP that Ty edited from for over a year. It was also used to vandalize his user page, the disambiguation page for tit and add a photo of porn star Jenna Haze to Category:Earls in the Peerage of England on commons.

Open proxy.

No, that tag indicates it is a closed proxy for a particular internet provider's customers. Some providers cache frequently requested web pages on a local server to improve loading time, and run their http traffic through that server. It is also common for school districts to have a small number of servers acting as firewalls for internet traffic, so that one or a few IPs carry traffic from multiple school locations. (If it was an open proxy, meaning anyone from anywhere could connect, it would have been blocked.)

According to Nathan, Tip toe Tyler is now a cop.

Some voter may want to ask him about 63.105.27.175 (T-C-L-K-R-D) , an IP that Ty edited from for over a year. It was also used to vandalize his user page, the disambiguation page for tit and add a photo of porn star Jenna Haze to Category:Earls in the Peerage of England on commons.

That IP was previously blocked on the grounds that it was used for vandalism by the housemate of a Wikipedia user. People are generally rightly skeptical of the housemate excuse, but I have encountered occasional legitimate cases of shenanigans by roommates, friends visiting, and so forth.

This post has been edited by No one of consequence: Fri 31st July 2009, 11:09am

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

People are generally rightly skeptical of the housemate excuse, but I have encountered occasional legitimate cases of shenanigans by roommates, friends visiting, and so forth.

I'd say in this case "the housemate excuse" looks very likely.

It seems Tyler is a highly responsible teenager but that he has some highly idiotic housemates who think very little of his Wikipedia volunteering. I'd be serious upset about it if I was him.

But is it worth clarifying the cop claim to close this topic? I would not say it look so good having a teenager with "wiki-powers" ... and a professional interests ... going off making unaccountable reports to law enforcement agencies or disclosures to other third parties, even if they are responsible.

Unless the Pee-dia is going to come clean on this new chapter and admit up that is what it is doing now ...

New Improved Wikipedia with Built-in Law Enforcement!!!

[Peter Damian]

But is it worth clarifying the cop claim to close this topic? I would not say it look so good having a teenager with "wiki-powers" ... and a professional interests ... going off making unaccountable reports to law enforcement agencies or disclosures to other third parties, even if they are responsible.

Using logic. There are three descriptions in question

* Vandal with IP 63.105.27.175
* 'Our Tiptoety' - CU candidate, who has provably edited from the same IP
* A individual who is called 'Tyler', who also has the same IP, who edited the Howard County Police web page here http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:De5ro...2&hl=en&ct=clnk, and who has the googlemail tiptoety @ gmail.com.

The 'housemate' rationale makes it uncertain whether the vandal description fits that of 'Our Tiptoety'. However 'Tyler' is almost certainly the same as 'Our Tiptoety'. If Tyler is a student who likes to post to police pages, why does he say "Great site, I am hoping our unit will be able to get something like this up and running. "? At the very least he is lying, in claiming to belong to a police unit, and so why is he applying for a job that requires trust?

[No one of consequence]

The 'housemate' rationale makes it uncertain whether the vandal description fits that of 'Our Tiptoety'. However 'Tyler' is almost certainly the same as 'Our Tiptoety'. If Tyler is a student who likes to post to police pages, why does he say "Great site, I am hoping our unit will be able to get something like this up and running. "? At the very least he is lying, in claiming to belong to a police unit, and so why is he applying for a job that requires trust?

Huh? An explorer post is something like scouting (and sometimes officially affiliated with the Boy Scouts). In my locality there are explorer posts associated with the police, the fire department and the ambulance squad. Young kids have meetings at the base or station, learn about procedures, and so forth, under the supervision of adult leaders who are full member of the organization. Explorers participate in fundraising activities (for volunteer fire department and ambulance corps), may assist with search-and-rescue missions (lost hikers, etc) and things like that. My daughter was a member of the Explorer post for our town's volunteer Ambulance squad for two years, she had fun and learned first aid and CPR. Some explorers joined the corps officially when they turned 18 although my daughter did not.

All that message board post shows is that in 2007, someone named Tyler praised the web site of a different explorer post than the one he was affiliated with. He could have been a member (aged 14-20, apparently) or he could have been one of the adult leaders. It is also entirely possible that he was a member of an explorer post in Feb 2007 and is now a full member of the parent organization. (For example, in early 2007 he was a high school senior, by 2009 he had completed a 2-year college degree in criminal justice and got hired as a cop.)

[Peter Damian]

Huh? An explorer post is something like scouting

My mistake. There is nothing like this in London, England.

[Eva Destruction]

Huh? An explorer post is something like scouting

My mistake. There is nothing like this in London, England.

There is, but it's not widely advertised. The Navy version (the Sea Scouts) is probably the best known UK programme like this.

[dogbiscuit]

Huh? An explorer post is something like scouting

My mistake. There is nothing like this in London, England.

There is, but it's not widely advertised. The Navy version (the Sea Scouts) is probably the best known UK programme like this.

As the father of two Sea Scouts and the son of another, I'd just like to correct that as it is little misleading. Sea Scouts are basically just scouts with a sea-faring bent - ironically our patch is pretty much as far from the sea as you can get. The Navy do offer some sponsorship, and we get very cheap summer holiday camps on a Navy ship, but Sea Scouts are simply scouts at the bottom of it, the Navy are not involved in the day to day running of the Sea Scouts.

I suspect that the CCF (Combined Cadet Force) might be a better UK analogy as that is sponsored by the Ministry of Defence and although not a specific route into the armed forces, it is designed to be an organisation that encourages appropriate skills.

Combined_Cadet_Force also gives us a nice example of currentism on Wikipedia. I'd be pretty confident that there have been many deaths over the years in the CCF due to accidents, but the article highlights only one event in June 2009 with no indication of any other incidents.