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> Bose AfD could use attention from experienced editors
SnottyWong
post Tue 27th October 2009, 5:32pm
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There's an AfD running currently that is attempting to delete about 10 articles, which I feel is being somewhat railroaded by inexperienced WP editors. I'm definitely not asking anyone to come and vote the way I want you to vote, but I feel that this AfD would be quickly resolved if it got the attention of a few experienced editors. If you're up to it, have a look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...stereo_speakers

Thanks.
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A Horse With No Name
post Tue 27th October 2009, 5:41pm
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QUOTE(SnottyWong @ Tue 27th October 2009, 1:32pm) *

There's an AfD running currently that is attempting to delete about 10 articles, which I feel is being somewhat railroaded by inexperienced WP editors. I'm definitely not asking anyone to come and vote the way I want you to vote, but I feel that this AfD would be quickly resolved if it got the attention of a few experienced editors. If you're up to it, have a look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...stereo_speakers

Thanks.


The gig is up, Wong -- the RCMP came riding in to expose you as an unrepentant canvasser: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=322371127
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Apathetic
post Tue 27th October 2009, 5:49pm
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He may yet repent. =)
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SnottyWong
post Tue 27th October 2009, 5:56pm
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QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th October 2009, 1:49pm) *

He may yet repent. =)


Jeez, sorry. I figured that since I wasn't asking for people to come who only share my opinion, nor did I even express my opinion or any details of the case, that I wasn't doing anything wrong. I was just looking for some more attention from experienced editors. Anyway, can I just delete this whole topic or what? It's only been up for 20 minutes... What's the best course of action from here on out?

This post has been edited by SnottyWong: Tue 27th October 2009, 5:57pm
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Somey
post Tue 27th October 2009, 5:57pm
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QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 27th October 2009, 12:41pm) *
The gig is up, Wong -- the RCMP came riding in to expose you as an unrepentant canvasser: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=322371127

The question is, will it have the reverse effect from what he intended...? unsure.gif

Personally, I would have to say that Bose speaker technology and design actually is innovative enough to deserve its own article (in addition to the one about the corporation), though maybe not separate articles for different models of speakers. Their headphone technology is supposed to be highly innovative too, but I have no personal knowledge of that (i.e., I haven't read anything about it in relevant audiophile publications - I just haven't been into that stuff much since my hearing started to deteriorate).

So it would seem reasonable to me to distill the eight articles down to two, three at the most. Merging is usually a good compromise in these situations, isn't it?
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A Horse With No Name
post Tue 27th October 2009, 6:01pm
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QUOTE(SnottyWong @ Tue 27th October 2009, 1:56pm) *

Jeez, sorry. I figured that since I wasn't asking for people to come who only share my opinion, nor did I even express my opinion or any details of the case, that I wasn't doing anything wrong. I was just looking for some more attention from experienced editors. Anyway, can I just delete this whole topic or what? It's only been up for 20 minutes... What's the best course of action from here on out?


No problem, Wong. All you have to do is go to this Wikipedia discussion and vote "Endorse -- We don't need crappy articles about amateur pornographers." Then sign your name. If you want, you can add a P.S. from me that says "Horsey wishes you a Happy Halloween." This is an acceptable way to make amends. smile.gif

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name: Tue 27th October 2009, 6:03pm
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Somey
post Tue 27th October 2009, 6:02pm
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QUOTE(SnottyWong @ Tue 27th October 2009, 12:56pm) *
Anyway, can I just delete this whole topic or what? It's only been up for 20 minutes... What's the best course of action from here on out?

We could delete it if you're seriously worried about it. But since that almost never happens, people might think you're actually me or one of our other moderators, which would be even worse for you. I realize that's a Catch-22 situation... unhappy.gif

I wouldn't worry so much about it, personally. It's not a BLP, and most people here have a fairly reasonable attitude about articles that would seem to promote products or corporate entities in general - if anything, we're probably more likely to disagree with you than the average Wikipedian who reads the site anonymously.
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CharlotteWebb
post Tue 27th October 2009, 6:03pm
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QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 27th October 2009, 5:57pm) *

Their headphone technology is supposed to be highly innovative too, but I have no personal knowledge of that (i.e., I haven't read anything about it in relevant audiophile publications - I just haven't been into that stuff much since my hearing started to deteriorate).

Yeah headphones are headphones to most people.

Of everyone here, I'm pretty sure EricBarbour would be the one to ask about this.
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Apathetic
post Tue 27th October 2009, 6:05pm
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QUOTE(SnottyWong @ Tue 27th October 2009, 1:56pm) *

QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th October 2009, 1:49pm) *

He may yet repent. =)


Jeez, sorry. I figured that since I wasn't asking for people to come who only share my opinion, nor did I even express my opinion or any details of the case, that I wasn't doing anything wrong. I was just looking for some more attention from experienced editors. Anyway, can I just delete this whole topic or what? It's only been up for 20 minutes... What's the best course of action from here on out?

Don't sweat it...

Best course of action...don't canvass =)
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SnottyWong
post Tue 27th October 2009, 6:07pm
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QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 27th October 2009, 2:02pm) *

I wouldn't worry so much about it, personally. It's not a BLP, and most people here have a fairly reasonable attitude about articles that would seem to promote products or corporate entities in general - if anything, we're probably more likely to disagree with you than the average Wikipedian who reads the site anonymously.


I'm fine with people who disagree with me voicing their opinions on the AfD. In fact, I encourage it. I'm not in this to "win", I'm in it to get it right. I believe my opinion is correct, of course, but I'm open-minded to listening to other people's opinions as long as they're based on WP policy and cited with examples.

But whatever, I'm probably just doing myself more of a disservice by posting more on this thread, so I guess I'll keep my mouth shut and wait for the AfD to get decided. Thanks for your help.
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A Horse With No Name
post Tue 27th October 2009, 6:12pm
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QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th October 2009, 2:05pm) *


Best course of action...don't canvass =)


Better course of action...don't get caught! smile.gif
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thekohser
post Tue 27th October 2009, 6:29pm
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I wish that someone would point out in the AfD that all of these articles are welcome on Wikipedia Review.com:

* Bose stereo speakers
* Bose headphones
* Previous Bose headphones
* Bose computer speakers
* Bose Lifestyle Home Entertainment Systems
* Bose 3-2-1 Home Entertainment Systems
* Bose wave systems
* Bose digital music systems
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Somey
post Tue 27th October 2009, 6:38pm
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QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th October 2009, 1:05pm) *
Best course of action...don't canvass =)

Is it really canvassing if he explicitly says "I'm definitely not asking anyone to come and vote the way I want you to vote"? I should think not.

You're probably thinking that Mr. Wong figured that "experienced editors" is a code-phrase, synonymous with "rabid haters and deleters of corporate product-spam." Am I right? Because it looks like you're violating the "AGF" rule somewhat in this case, not that you're likely to be criticized for that here of course.
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Apathetic
post Tue 27th October 2009, 6:45pm
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QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 27th October 2009, 2:38pm) *

QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th October 2009, 1:05pm) *
Best course of action...don't canvass =)

Is it really canvassing if he explicitly says "I'm definitely not asking anyone to come and vote the way I want you to vote"? I should think not.



He can say that, but another recent post (wisely redacted) from them casts doubt on the belief that he's come here just to get people from all sides of the spectrum to participate.
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Somey
post Tue 27th October 2009, 7:02pm
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QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th October 2009, 1:45pm) *
He can say that, but another recent post (wisely redacted) from them casts doubt on the belief that he's come here just to get people from all sides of the spectrum to participate.

Maybe... but he hasn't made any secret of his own preferences in that regard. He's the nominator, after all... hmmm.gif

It's just that I wouldn't use the term "canvassing" to refer to this WR thread - a one-word verb for "drawing general attention to" would be more accurate, like "advertising" or "promoting" maybe. But even advertisers can usually choose their target demographic more precisely than a WR poster can - there's really no way to know who's going to read a thread here, what their reaction will be, and (most importantly) whether or not they'll act on something like that.

And let's face it, it is quite possible that Bose has a number of employees, retailers, and contract PR people operating on their behalf, on WP and elsewhere. In fact, almost any company that does direct sales and long-form TV advertising is likely to have that.
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Apathetic
post Tue 27th October 2009, 7:04pm
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QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 27th October 2009, 2:56pm) *

QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th October 2009, 1:45pm) *
He can say that, but another recent post (wisely redacted) from them casts doubt on the belief that he's come here just to get people from all sides of the spectrum to participate.

Maybe... but he hasn't made any secret of his own preferences in that regard. He's the nominator, after all... hmmm.gif

It's just that I wouldn't use the term "canvassing" to refer to this WR thread - a one-word verb for "drawing general attention to" would be more accurate, like "advertising" or "promoting" maybe. But even advertisers can usually choose their target demographic more precisely than a WR poster can - there's really no way to know who's going to read a thread here, what their reaction will be, and (most importantly) whether or not they'll act on something like that.

canvassing is WP-speak for "drawing attention to", the guideline makes it clear that canvassing may be appropriate in some cases, inappropriate in others.

In this case, I've registered my opinion that it is inappropriate - YMMV.

However, I realize that S-Wong is somewhat new-ish to Wikipedia and thus realize he may not have been well-versed in the guideline so am fully-willing to extend him a pass on this one.

This post has been edited by Apathetic: Tue 27th October 2009, 7:05pm
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GlassBeadGame
post Tue 27th October 2009, 7:05pm
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Moderator's note: The original title of this thread was "Important AfD could use attention from experienced editors." This was changed to "Bose Afd..." in deference to those among our readers who lack a specific interest in articles related to audio products.

QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 27th October 2009, 12:56pm) *

QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th October 2009, 1:45pm) *
He can say that, but another recent post (wisely redacted) from them casts doubt on the belief that he's come here just to get people from all sides of the spectrum to participate.

Maybe... but he hasn't made any secret of his own preferences in that regard. He's the nominator, after all... hmmm.gif

It's just that I wouldn't use the term "canvassing" to refer to this WR thread - a one-word verb for "drawing general attention to" would be more accurate, like "advertising" or "promoting" maybe. But even advertisers can usually choose their target demographic more precisely than a WR poster can - there's really no way to know who's going to read a thread here, what their reaction will be, and (most importantly) whether or not they'll act on something like that.



Well at least Mr. Snottywong seems to using WR to break a WP rule which is at least a slight improvement over the usual Wikipedian nonsense. I do think the word "Important" in the title is misleading.
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Somey
post Tue 27th October 2009, 7:28pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Tue 27th October 2009, 2:05pm) *
I do think the word "Important" in the title is misleading.

Maybe "Bose AfD" instead? Or would that just make the situation worse, advertising-wise?

Anyway, if they're going to use the word "canvassing" to refer to almost any kind of general announcement (and I can't imagine anybody thinking we have some sort of official preference for Bose speakers here), then they're mangling the English language. "Canvassing" in the internet context should refer specifically to direct communications with targeted individuals (or groups thereof) to encourage people to act in accordance with the canvasser's wishes.

For example, an e-mail to WikiEN-L might be "promoting," but would only be "canvassing" if the person knew who all the subscribers were and had a fairly good idea that none of them would react by doing something other than what he wants. The same should hold true here, generally speaking. Whereas, an e-mail to the Infinity or JBL or Boston Acoustics corporate mailing lists (or forums, etc.) presumably would be "canvassing," and of course that should be discouraged if at all possible.
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thekohser
post Tue 27th October 2009, 7:50pm
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I have reviewed this content, and I have determined that it is verily ripe for abuse by Google AdSense purveyors and the like.

I vote delete.

Delete the whole bunch!

This post has been edited by thekohser: Tue 27th October 2009, 7:51pm
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Doc glasgow
post Tue 27th October 2009, 7:58pm
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MY biggest problem with SnottyWong's post is not the canvassing but the time wasting.

I mean "Important AfD could use attention from experienced editors" led me to the assumption that this AFD was IMPORTANT, hence I read the thread.

Now I discover it is just someone promoting corporate crap on Wikipedia, which is a run of the mill occurrence that no person should care about.

This is not important, not a bit of it.
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