The circus hits town, arbcom 2009 here we go Options

[Kelly Martin]

I am at a loss as to what useful purpose an RFC on Kurt Weber's conduct could possibly serve.

[A Horse With No Name]

Shell Kinney has now declared her candidacy...

Her? Is she the sole babe in the bunch?

And, while we are at it, why is this template being included online? -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:ACE_2009_guides

I mean, really, who gives a flying fuck what these people think of the candidates?

[Doc glasgow]

I am at a loss as to what useful purpose an RFC on Kurt Weber's conduct could possibly serve.

Kelly, I'm surprised at you.

I serves the obvious and oldest of Wiki-purposes. You of all people should recognise a troll when you see one.

Such activity is, apparently, second only in fascination to Indian tapestry. (Yes, that's somewhat surreal.)

[Casliber]

Shell Kinney has now declared her candidacy...

Her? Is she the sole babe in the bunch?

And, while we are at it, why is this template being included online? -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:ACE_2009_guides

I mean, really, who gives a flying fuck what these people think of the candidates?

Oh I dunno, a few folks do .... collaborative homework-doing and short-cut creating is very current

why is that funny pink emoticon a "wub" anyway...is it some US-only thing?

This post has been edited by Casliber: Mon 23rd November 2009, 2:12am

[Kelly Martin]

I am at a loss as to what useful purpose an RFC on Kurt Weber's conduct could possibly serve.

Kelly, I'm surprised at you.

I serves the obvious and oldest of Wiki-purposes. You of all people should recognise a troll when you see one.

Such activity is, apparently, second only in fascination to Indian tapestry. (Yes, that's somewhat surreal.)

I said useful purpose.

[CharlotteWebb]

Some are here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Missing_Wikipedians

But those are only the ones that haven't been obviously corrupted, hammered, or burned out.

To be fair, I was listed on that page for a while until I removed myself. Maybe somebody will put me back, who knows…

[GlassBeadGame]

Some are here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Missing_Wikipedians

But those are only the ones that haven't been obviously corrupted, hammered, or burned out.

To be fair, I was listed on that page for a while until I removed myself. Maybe somebody will put me back, who knows…

No list for missed Wikipedians?

[Kelly Martin]

I shouldn't be on that list. I'm not "missing". I left. "Missing" implies that nobody knows where I went, or that I might someday be "found" again.

I would view it favorably if my name were removed from that list.

[Cedric]

I shouldn't be on that list. I'm not "missing". I left. "Missing" implies that nobody knows where I went, or that I might someday be "found" again.

I would view it favorably if my name were removed from that list.

Strangely, my old username appears on the list as well. Why, I have no idea.

Actually, the stated purpose of the list "is to provide a reminder to us of those who have left and their reasons for doing so." Still, I agree that "Missing Wikipedians" is a misleading title. "Wikipedians Who Buggered Off" or "Wikipedians That Told Us To Go Piss Up A Rope" would be more accurate.

[Somey]

And we are off

Scott Mac's opinion

It would be more Wikipedian to attempt to communicate before posting an opinion which is certainly discourteous and arguably a personal attack. Scott Mac's syllogism suffers from the false dichotomy fallacy. Suppose one grants his premise that Kmweber is a troll (noting the incivility in passing). It does not necessarily follow that the solution to every type of trolling is to ignore it completely. Carry that premise to extremes and nobody would ever get blocked, because warnings and block notices constitute feedback. A lot less formal dispute resolution would occur at this site. This was initiated with the idea that if he were reasonable he would communicate reasonably, and if not then at least it would divert the disruption from his chosen high profile venue to a different venue where he didn't want to be. The premise of this RfC was set out pretty clearly, and I would hope that experienced Wikipedians could disagree respectfully. Durova369 00:26, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

You'll all have to pardon me for pretending to take any of this seriously, but I suppose it should be pointed out that it isn't a "false dichotomy" to suggest that "trolling" should be ignored; in this case it's simply an argument from experience, which is perhaps better known as a priori reasoning. That doesn't mean Mr. MacDonald/Glasgow is correct in his approach to Mr. Weber, but it does perhaps suggest that Ms. Durova lacks an appreciation of the finer points of logic.

At some point they might have had to address the question of whether or not Mr. Weber's ArbCom candidacy is actually "disruptive" in some way, or just a relatively harmless diversion. If any of them are concerned about the ArbCom elections being seen by the general community as a farce, they should probably worry more about things they can still actually control.

The premiss of this RFC is bollocks. You state that you hope "Kmweber evaluates the reactions here at this RfC ... edits productively in mainspace for one year to regain the community’s confidence...". Is that really why you filled this? A good faith attempt to help Kurt see the light? You are not remotely stupid enough to believe that an RfC will do anything of the sort..... --Scott Mac (Doc) 00:35, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Mr. Weber is an interesting case in some ways, in that he does his best to follow the basic rules of WP civility and decorum while espousing a bizarre (and somewhat radical) interpretation of an already-insane ideology to anyone who will listen. But since the basic ideology he espouses is the one Wikipedia is fundamentally based on, this makes it more difficult to manufacture an adequate non-hypocritical ban-pretext to make him simply "go away."

The real problem for the WP'ers is that the technology (be it MediaWiki or the web in general) doesn't give them an effective means of distancing themselves from people like Mr. Weber without explicitly banning them. Concepts like "mediation" and "arbitration" are of no practical relevance in his case... Their only real alternative is to subtly broadcast vague and general hints that everyone should ignore him, but some people don't take hints as well as others, obviously.

[Milton Roe]

I shouldn't be on that list. I'm not "missing". I left. "Missing" implies that nobody knows where I went, or that I might someday be "found" again.

I would view it favorably if my name were removed from that list.

I'm curious to know what happens if you leave with your userpage blanked except for:

I'M LEAVING WP FOREVER
BECAUSE YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF POO-POO HEADS

Do you suppose they'd put you on the missing list?

[MZMcBride]

I shouldn't be on that list. I'm not "missing". I left. "Missing" implies that nobody knows where I went, or that I might someday be "found" again.

I would view it favorably if my name were removed from that list.

Steve beat me to it.

[A Horse With No Name]

I'm curious to know what happens if you leave with your userpage blanked except for:

I'M LEAVING WP FOREVER
BECAUSE YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF POO-POO HEADS

Do you suppose they'd put you on the missing list?

They wait a few days until you inevitably return. My favorite breakdown is Tanthalas39 from late February -- http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=264562383 -- he was back a few days later, pretending nothing happened.

[dtobias]

I've interviewed candidate Unomi for Wikivoices... and unlike some others in the past, I wasted no time in getting it online, both in the "official" open-source-format Ogg version and an MP3. (Sorry about the noisy audio whenever I speak... I probably need to get a better microphone instead of the old cheap one I've kept through about three different computers over the past decade.)

I serves the obvious and oldest of Wiki-purposes. You of all people should recognise a troll when you see one.

Yes, but she undoubtedly applauds them when she sees them.


This post has been edited by dtobias: Mon 23rd November 2009, 9:26pm

[AGK]

Shelly, Jehochman (to a lesser extant), and particularly AGK are just grandstanding before the arbcom election.

I could tell AGK was going to run for the arbcom election when he switched from obsequious arbcom clerk mode to arbcom critic mode here.

I toe the line, and I get opposed for not being free-thinking. I actually speak my mind, and I get called a grand-stander. There really is no satisfying people, is there?

I stand by my comments there. Remedies like that are useless. I'm hardly grandstanding by making a comment on a case discussion page: it's not like they receive a lot of attention, is it?

On the other hand Manning did not warn his other fellow clerk AGK for inflammatory language on the case pages. Instead he wrote a glowing endorsement of AGK for the elections.

Oh, hush you. I did not use "inflammatory language." Strong criticism of a proposed committee decision is a quite different thing. I also explained myself quite extensively on the same page where Manning offered his endorsement.

This post has been edited by AGK: Mon 23rd November 2009, 9:57pm

[CharlotteWebb]

I toe the line, and I get opposed for not being free-thinking. I actually speak my mind, and I get called a grand-stander. There really is no satisfying people, is there?

I for one would be satisfied just knowing you don't care what I think.

Granted I don't think this sentiment scales well to the rest of the "community".

[One]

I've interviewed candidate Unomi for Wikivoices... and unlike some others in the past, I wasted no time in getting it online, both in the "official" open-source-format Ogg version and an MP3. (Sorry about the noisy audio whenever I speak... I probably need to get a better microphone instead of the old cheap one I've kept through about three different computers over the past decade.)

I was interviewed by Durova about this time last year. It was right before the Thanksgiving holiday. I remember because I was still in school. I think it was soon after

Durova has signaled her dislike of me several times, but I wouldn't mind hearing it at this late date. As I recall, it was soon after One = CHL became widely known.

[AGK]

I toe the line, and I get opposed for not being free-thinking. I actually speak my mind, and I get called a grand-stander. There really is no satisfying people, is there?

I for one would be satisfied just knowing you don't care what I think.

Granted I don't think this sentiment scales well to the rest of the "community".

Who said I don't care what you think?

[A Horse With No Name]

I've interviewed candidate Unomi for Wikivoices... and unlike some others in the past, I wasted no time in getting it online, both in the "official" open-source-format Ogg version and an MP3. (Sorry about the noisy audio whenever I speak... I probably need to get a better microphone instead of the old cheap one I've kept through about three different computers over the past decade.)

I serves the obvious and oldest of Wiki-purposes. You of all people should recognise a troll when you see one.

Yes, but she undoubtedly applauds them when she sees them.

So we have two babes running for Arbcom? Horsey says: vote for them!

[dtobias]

I've interviewed candidate Unomi for Wikivoices... and unlike some others in the past, I wasted no time in getting it online, both in the "official" open-source-format Ogg version and an MP3. (Sorry about the noisy audio whenever I speak... I probably need to get a better microphone instead of the old cheap one I've kept through about three different computers over the past decade.)

I serves the obvious and oldest of Wiki-purposes. You of all people should recognise a troll when you see one.

Yes, but she undoubtedly applauds them when she sees them.

So we have two babes running for Arbcom? Horsey says: vote for them!

Unomi is a guy, not a "babe".