Shoemaker's Holiday flames out Options

[carbuncle]

There seems to have been some kind of feud going on between Shoemaker's Holiday and Durova over image restorations and something called "the WikiCup". If I understand the gist of the discussions on Talk:Featured picture candidates,

• Shoemaker's Holiday felt that Durova was cheating,
• Durova told him to fuck off during a conversation which had been recorded by Shoemaker's Holiday,
• Shoemaker's Holiday uploaded the recording,
• it was oversighted as copyvio,
• Shoemaker's Holiday started throwing around accusations that "Durova has a corrupt oversighter in her pocket",
• Durova referenced SH's Adam Cuerden account on commons which SH took as outing,
• SH's head explodes all over WP:AN

Here's the short-lived AN discussion in full

What the fuck is going on here?

I was outed by Durova on WT:FPC. I've asked for it to be oversighted SIX FUCKING DAYS ago.

WHY hasn't anything been done? Has Wikipedia decided to throw out all its policies?

FURTHER VIOLATIONS OF POLICY IN THE LAST WEEK

* Wikipedia:Deletion_review#List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_
assessment_of_global_warming is ful of votes that go directly against the Deletion guidelines.

* [5] as oversighted oin defiance of WP:OVBRSIGHT. Thje oversighters say that it is accepted, but couldn't damn well be bothered to change their stated rules, then complained about how horrible I was to ppoint out that it was against the stated rules after waiting three days for an explanation from the oversighter in question.

* As discussed on WT:FPC, Duroa attacked me off-site in an attempt to suppress dissent on her Featured picture nominations. When I brought it up, they said they didn't even want to see the evidence.


WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE? CAN'T WIKIPEDIA FOLLOW IT'S OWN DAMN POLICIES ANYMORE?! Shoemaker's Holiday talk 17:28, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

* Please calm down, thanks. Majorly talk 17:30, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

* And to answer your question: It never did. And not everyone's interpretation of THE RULES is the same as yours. WP:TRUTH might be useful. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:32, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

STOP FUCKING AROUND AND OVERSIGHT THE FUCKING OUTING Shoemaker's Holiday talk 17:35, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

[indent]This sounds like something more suited for email to arbcom-l-at-lists.wikimedia.org, arbcom-audit-en-at-lists.wikimedia.org, or cu-ombuds-l-at-lists.wikimedia.org, since discussion at this noticeboard is likely to lead to further details being disclosed in the course of discussion that may prejudice future claims of anonymity. MBisanz talk 17:35, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Jehochman wisely removed the thread soon after. SH hasn't been active since early November.

[thekohser]

Durova, now might be a good time to finally disclose -- why exactly was Episode 45 of Wikivoices suppressed by Adam Cuerden?

[Wiki Witch of the West]

Durova, now might be a good time to finally disclose -- why exactly was Episode 45 of Wikivoices suppressed by Adam Cuerden?

You'd be better off getting that from the horse's mouth, Greg. What I had done my best to ensure was to match up the episode to one dedicated editor. WikiVoices had two audio editors who were really on the ball: Privatemusings and Filll. When either of them made a commitment the episode got done, pronto. But Filll moved on to other things and Privatemusings isn't around very much anymore. We've got several other people who have the skills but don't always prioritize, and they got into the habit of "sharing" editing work. Which tends to slow things down even more. X says "Y has it" or "Y's doing that part". A day and a half later Y comes on and responds "I said I'd take a look at it but I didn't make any promises." Then wait for X to log on again...

I've often thought about learning the software and picking up audio editing too. Haven't done so because of the worry that extra recordings would happen without a commitment from me, and the editing would end up in my lap.

We really do need another good dependable editor.

[thekohser]

Durova, now might be a good time to finally disclose -- why exactly was Episode 45 of Wikivoices suppressed by Adam Cuerden?

You'd be better off getting that from the horse's mouth, Greg. What I had done my best to ensure was to match up the episode to one dedicated editor. WikiVoices had two audio editors who were really on the ball: Privatemusings and Filll. When either of them made a commitment the episode got done, pronto. But Filll moved on to other things and Privatemusings isn't around very much anymore. We've got several other people who have the skills but don't always prioritize, and they got into the habit of "sharing" editing work. Which tends to slow things down even more. X says "Y has it" or "Y's doing that part". A day and a half later Y comes on and responds "I said I'd take a look at it but I didn't make any promises." Then wait for X to log on again...

I've often thought about learning the software and picking up audio editing too. Haven't done so because of the worry that extra recordings would happen without a commitment from me, and the editing would end up in my lap.

We really do need another good dependable editor.

Once again, you minimize and you deflect. We had two people perfectly willing and able to edit the audio file, if only it had been released. Instead, it was deliberately withheld. And you continued to welcome that sniveling critter within your ranks, enamored with his Gilbert & Sullivan bullcrap that nobody cares about in this century.

To continue the Habitat for Humanity comparison, imagine a crew of 15 unskilled and skilled volunteer builders arrives at a construction site. Adam Cuerden pulls up in the pick-up truck with all the tools, locked in the tool bin in the back. As he gets out of the truck, he feels like he has a severe headache and he just knows that today he will not be able to do any productive building. So, he drives home, telling the 15 other workers that he'll try to come back another day, but it might be a few days. A week later, someone politely asks if he feels ready to come to the site again. He says, "No, my headaches are too awful", but then people notice he's painting his house, and he's finishing his neighbor's basement, so they point this out. He becomes offended. Then someone says, "Look, if you can't bring yourself to drive the truck to the site, I'll be happy to do it, or Ross over here would also be willing to give it a shot." Cuerden cries back, "No, no, no! One or two of the workers asked me that I not bring the truck -- ever -- to this construction site, because they're afraid that they'll hammer the nails backwards and look silly. So, this house is never going to get built."

Then you invite this critter to drive the truck to another home site.

It's downright sinister how you've reframed the whole story, Durova. And you know it. And it tickles your little witchy feet in your wicked witchy shoes to click them together and cackle, knowing full well that you're minimizing and deflecting, once again.

[Wiki Witch of the West]

Once again, you minimize and you deflect. We had two people perfectly willing and able to edit the audio file, if only it had been released. Instead, it was deliberately withheld. And you continued to welcome that sniveling critter within your ranks, enamored with his Gilbert & Sullivan bullcrap that nobody cares about in this century.

To continue the Habitat for Humanity comparison, imagine a crew of 15 unskilled and skilled volunteer builders arrives at a construction site. Adam Cuerden pulls up in the pick-up truck with all the tools, locked in the tool bin in the back. As he gets out of the truck, he feels like he has a severe headache and he just knows that today he will not be able to do any productive building. So, he drives home, telling the 15 other workers that he'll try to come back another day, but it might be a few days. A week later, someone politely asks if he feels ready to come to the site again. He says, "No, my headaches are too awful", but then people notice he's painting his house, and he's finishing his neighbor's basement, so they point this out. He becomes offended. Then someone says, "Look, if you can't bring yourself to drive the truck to the site, I'll be happy to do it, or Ross over here would also be willing to give it a shot." Cuerden cries back, "No, no, no! One or two of the workers asked me that I not bring the truck -- ever -- to this construction site, because they're afraid that they'll hammer the nails backwards and look silly. So, this house is never going to get built."

Then you invite this critter to drive the truck to another home site.

It's downright sinister how you've reframed the whole story, Durova. And you know it. And it tickles your little witchy feet in your wicked witchy shoes to click them together and cackle, knowing full well that you're minimizing and deflecting, once again.

The structure of WikiVoices is less top-down than that analogy implies. He wasn't the original audio editor. I had very strongly advised the original editor against attempting to share the responsibility with anybody else. To the point of saying if that were going to happen then I wouldn't host. But of course after the recording was made I couldn't prevent people from trying it anyway. Believe me, a couple of people got reamed out in private over that.

The horse has had a nice horse funeral and doesn't need another beating.

During the aftermath of this some people have wondered why you pushed the issue so hard and so long, Greg. Yes, you did make a positive impression during the recording. I could understand why you'd want that published. But the manner in which you've followed up has more than undone that good impression. Somebody (not from WikiVoices) linked me to this thread a moment ago and said your post is the kind of thing that makes them lose interest in helping you get unblocked.

This post has been edited by Wiki Witch of the West: Sun 22nd November 2009, 2:15am

[thekohser]

...your post is the kind of thing that makes them lose interest in helping you get unblocked.

Ah, yes. It's all my fault, once again. I suppose I've got nothing left to live for now, except maybe to give misleading information to journalists that will be published in the mainstream press.

[Jon Awbrey]

…your post is the kind of thing that makes them lose interest in helping you get unblocked.

Ah, yes. It's all my fault, once again. I suppose I've got nothing left to live for now, except maybe to give misleading information to journalists that will be published in the mainstream press.

Good grief, Man, you just got through lecturing PD about wasting his time.

Put her on your ignore list and get on with your life.

Wikipediots ain't good for nuttin if they aint good for comedy, and this one has become too big a bore to even be funny anymore.

Jon

[Wiki Witch of the West]

Good grief, Man, you just got through lecturing PD about wasting his time.

Put her on your ignore list and get on with your life.

Wikipediots ain't good for nuttin if they aint good for comedy, and this one has become too big a bore to even be funny anymore.

Jon

Great advice, Jon. Let's see if either of you take it.

Buzzin' back to Ye Olde Hive to work on content.


And y'know, throughout this thread I grit my teeth in anticipation of Now she's talking about me on Wikipedia Review!

Can't please everyone.

[Somey]

Can't please everyone.

Yeah, but how many times can you cheat, dissemble, cover-up, smear, or grossly exaggerate, followed by consistently saying the problem really lies with the people who point these things out and the "manner" in which they do so, before they won't let you do it again?

On Wikipedia I assume they'll let you keep it up indefinitely, but here we have so-called "standards"...

[Wiki Witch of the West]

Can't please everyone.

Yeah, but how many times can you cheat, dissemble, cover-up, smear, or grossly exaggerate, followed by consistently saying the problem really lies with the people who point these things out and the "manner" in which they do so, before they won't let you do it again?

On Wikipedia I assume they'll let you keep it up indefinitely, but here we have so-called "standards"...

You'd be the expert on that.

More seriously, I made a public apology to Greg at the Foundation list months ago. If he doesn't want to accept it that's up to him. We goofed up that episode at WikiVoices, no doubt about it. I won't don a hairshirt forever about it, and that doesn't mean his conduct is perfect.

Really, one of the things I was telling the audio editors when I was trying to get this episode done was that I really didn't want to antagonize Greg especially. He's intelligent and charming, but we all have our strengths and our weaknesses. He tends to be less charming when he isn't getting what he wants.

[Alison]

We goofed up that episode at WikiVoices, no doubt about it. I won't don a hairshirt forever about it, and that doesn't mean his conduct is perfect.

Really, one of the things I was telling the audio editors when I was trying to get this episode done was that I really didn't want to antagonize Greg especially. He's intelligent and charming, but we all have our strengths and our weaknesses. He tends to be less charming when he isn't getting what he wants.

Silly question: if the file is gone-trashed-deleted, would both yourself and Greg be amenable to re-running the interview (PITA, I know, to do it again, but it's important to Greg), with a different recording engineer?

Or if it is available still, could someone else get it ready to put live?

I'm coming in late into this and don't have the full facts, most likely. I'm just thinking of a solution, is all ...