The Wikipedia Review: A forum for discussion and criticism of Wikipedia
Wikipedia Review Op-Ed Pages

Welcome, Guest! ( Log In | Register )

> Help

This forum is for discussing specific Wikipedia editors, editing patterns, and general efforts by those editors to influence or direct content in ways that might not be in keeping with Wikipedia policy. Please source your claims and provide links where appropriate. For a glossary of terms frequently used when discussing Wikipedia and related projects, please refer to Wikipedia:Glossary.

12 Pages V < 1 2 3 4 5 > »   
Closed TopicStart new topic
> Who is Essjay?, Probably he's Ryan Jordan
Daniel Brandt
post Sun 21st January 2007, 6:20am
Post #41


Postmaster
*******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 2,473
Joined: Fri 24th Mar 2006, 12:23am
Member No.: 77



Look at the bottom of this screen shot, where I ask Essjay to explain himself. It lasted 28 minutes until Shanel reverted it. Note that Shanel is also on his Facebook "friends" list, and she became a steward last month.

Now I'm taking bets on how long it will be until Essjay comes along and wipes out the history diff.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jonny Cache
post Sun 21st January 2007, 1:54pm
Post #42


τα δε μοι παθήματα μαθήματα γέγονε
*********

Group: Contributors
Posts: 5,100
Joined: Sat 9th Sep 2006, 1:52am
Member No.: 398

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



Yeah, I keep wondering how long it will take the establishment media to get over it with the G Wiz Biz and get down to doing some real investigative journalism. Then again, who needs a second Pulitzer?

Jonny cool.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Daniel Brandt
post Sun 21st January 2007, 2:19pm
Post #43


Postmaster
*******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 2,473
Joined: Fri 24th Mar 2006, 12:23am
Member No.: 77



The two emails I found for Stacy Schiff both bounced. One was schiff AT observer.com and the other was schiff AT nytimes.com. I sent a copy to a media-inquiry email address listed in the "contacts" box at The New Yorker. That one went through, and will most likely end up in the trash.

When Ms. Schiff was writing the article, she talked to Seigenthaler, and he told me that he gave her my number. But she never called me. I wouldn't have known anything about Essjay at that point anyway, although I would have talked to her about Wikipedia. The fact that she didn't even try to call me proves that she didn't do much research, and wasn't particularly interested in presenting Wikipedia objectively.

In terms of contact information, all I could find out about Stacy Schiff from clicking around is that she lives in New York City with her husband and children. If anyone can find better contact information, please let me know.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
anon1234
post Sun 21st January 2007, 6:11pm
Post #44


Senior Member
****

Group: Inactive
Posts: 401
Joined: Sat 8th Apr 2006, 2:40am
Member No.: 111



QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sun 21st January 2007, 2:19pm) *

The two emails I found for Stacy Schiff both bounced. One was schiff AT observer.com and the other was schiff AT nytimes.com. I sent a copy to a media-inquiry email address listed in the "contacts" box at The New Yorker. That one went through, and will most likely end up in the trash.

When Ms. Schiff was writing the article, she talked to Seigenthaler, and he told me that he gave her my number. But she never called me. I wouldn't have known anything about Essjay at that point anyway, although I would have talked to her about Wikipedia. The fact that she didn't even try to call me proves that she didn't do much research, and wasn't particularly interested in presenting Wikipedia objectively.

In terms of contact information, all I could find out about Stacy Schiff from clicking around is that she lives in New York City with her husband and children. If anyone can find better contact information, please let me know.


Just sent a polite email to the observer general inquiries box asking for her new contact information. Your inquiry to the New Yorker, if worded properly should get a lot of traction.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Daniel Brandt
post Fri 26th January 2007, 5:58pm
Post #45


Postmaster
*******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 2,473
Joined: Fri 24th Mar 2006, 12:23am
Member No.: 77



QUOTE(anon1234 @ Sun 21st January 2007, 12:11pm) *

Your inquiry to the New Yorker, if worded properly should get a lot of traction.

I'm not having much luck pursuing this. I sent a fax to the general fax number at The New Yorker on letterhead, informing them that a serious error was published, and requesting contact info for Stacy Schiff. I also mentioned that a copy of my bounced email to Ms. Schiff was sent to mediarequests AT newyorker.com. If anyone read the fax, they should have been able to retrieve it from that department. My fax was sent on January 21. No response yet.

I sent an email to Carol Wentworth, the PR person for Wikia, Inc. I asked her to forward a copy to Gil Penchina. My email asked whether the information provided by Ryan Jordan on his Wikia user page has been verified by Wikia. I pointed out that The New Yorker published bogus credentials for Essjay based on his Wikipedia user page. I got an autobot response from Ms. Wentworth informing me that she is out of the office and will not return until January 23. Now it's three days since she returned, and still no response.

Today I added Essjay to http://www.wikipedia-watch.org/hive2.html#309

I think I've given Wikia and Essjay an opportunity to respond, and by now it is responsible and proper for me to create a special Essjay page on Wikipedia-Watch. As for The New Yorker, I suspect their position will be, if ever they feel the need to present their position, that since the name "Essjay" was itself a pseudonym, it is not necessary to correct phony credentials attached to a phony name. However, I think it should be pursued further with The New Yorker and Stacy Schiff, simply so that they will be less inclined to drink Wikipedia's Kool-Aid in the future.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Alex
post Fri 26th January 2007, 6:16pm
Post #46


Back from the dead
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,017
Joined: Wed 24th Jan 2007, 4:39pm
Member No.: 867

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Fri 26th January 2007, 5:58pm) *

Today I added Essjay to http://www.wikipedia-watch.org/hive2.html#309

I think I've given Wikia and Essjay an opportunity to respond, and by now it is responsible and proper for me to create a special Essjay page on Wikipedia-Watch. As for The New Yorker, I suspect their position will be, if ever they feel the need to present their position, that since the name "Essjay" was itself a pseudonym, it is not necessary to correct phony credentials attached to a phony name. However, I think it should be pursued further with The New Yorker and Stacy Schiff, simply so that they will be less inclined to drink Wikipedia's Kool-Aid in the future.

What I found odd is that on Essjay's user page he stated he is older than 30 and younger than 45... Which is true? 24 as on Wikia, or the vague 30-45 on Wikipedia? Who knows.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
anon1234
post Fri 26th January 2007, 6:28pm
Post #47


Senior Member
****

Group: Inactive
Posts: 401
Joined: Sat 8th Apr 2006, 2:40am
Member No.: 111



QUOTE(Alex @ Fri 26th January 2007, 6:16pm) *

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Fri 26th January 2007, 5:58pm) *

Today I added Essjay to http://www.wikipedia-watch.org/hive2.html#309

I think I've given Wikia and Essjay an opportunity to respond, and by now it is responsible and proper for me to create a special Essjay page on Wikipedia-Watch. As for The New Yorker, I suspect their position will be, if ever they feel the need to present their position, that since the name "Essjay" was itself a pseudonym, it is not necessary to correct phony credentials attached to a phony name. However, I think it should be pursued further with The New Yorker and Stacy Schiff, simply so that they will be less inclined to drink Wikipedia's Kool-Aid in the future.

What I found odd is that on Essjay's user page he stated he is older than 30 and younger than 45... Which is true? 24 as on Wikia, or the vague 30-45 on Wikipedia? Who knows.


This is someone one needs to follow up on. A webpage would be good. But also getting blogosphere coverage or DIGG coverage would also be useful. Here is an idea. Why not submit it to DIGG and tell the rest of the forum when you do so we can vote on it.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Somey
post Fri 26th January 2007, 6:47pm
Post #48


Can't actually moderate (or even post)
*********

Group: Moderators
Posts: 11,815
Joined: Sat 17th Jun 2006, 7:47pm
From: Dreamland
Member No.: 275



QUOTE(anon1234 @ Fri 26th January 2007, 12:28pm) *
This is someone one needs to follow up on. A webpage would be good. But also getting blogosphere coverage or DIGG coverage would also be useful. Here is an idea. Why not submit it to DIGG and tell the rest of the forum when you do so we can vote on it.

Okay... but is he a big enough target to warrant that much scrutiny, though? I mean, there's obviously something fishy going on, but if you apply Occam's Razor to the situation, I'd say it's probably more likely that he's 24 (and being dishonest on his "Wikiresume") than that he's pushing 40 and just left a tenured faculty job to work for Wikia, apparently from his house.

The question is whether or not anyone outside of Wikiland is likely to care all that much, given that most of them won't realize how high-ranking Essjay is, or how that's even all that relevant. I'd imagine a lot of media people just assume that Wikipedia users are dishonest about their supposed qualifications as a matter of course... The fact that Essjay managed to schnooker a writer for the New Yorker is significant, but one might have to find someone who's actively hostile to the New Yorker and give them a full run-down before a story actually gets written.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
anon1234
post Fri 26th January 2007, 7:32pm
Post #49


Senior Member
****

Group: Inactive
Posts: 401
Joined: Sat 8th Apr 2006, 2:40am
Member No.: 111



QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 26th January 2007, 6:47pm) *

QUOTE(anon1234 @ Fri 26th January 2007, 12:28pm) *
This is someone one needs to follow up on. A webpage would be good. But also getting blogosphere coverage or DIGG coverage would also be useful. Here is an idea. Why not submit it to DIGG and tell the rest of the forum when you do so we can vote on it.

Okay... but is he a big enough target to warrant that much scrutiny, though? I mean, there's obviously something fishy going on, but if you apply Occam's Razor to the situation, I'd say it's probably more likely that he's 24 (and being dishonest on his "Wikiresume") than that he's pushing 40 and just left a tenured faculty job to work for Wikia, apparently from his house.

The question is whether or not anyone outside of Wikiland is likely to care all that much, given that most of them won't realize how high-ranking Essjay is, or how that's even all that relevant. I'd imagine a lot of media people just assume that Wikipedia users are dishonest about their supposed qualifications as a matter of course... The fact that Essjay managed to schnooker a writer for the New Yorker is significant, but one might have to find someone who's actively hostile to the New Yorker and give them a full run-down before a story actually gets written.


The webpage on Essjay should detail how he is in the inner circle and the way the processes work on Wikipedia. But it shouldn't be that hard to show he is in the inner circle to fairly new outsiders if one has a few pictures with number of users in each circle. It can be seen as an instructive lesson into the structure of the Wikipedian inner circle -- which no publication has yet covered. Thus you can sell it based on that new angle it offers to readers. That the inner circle of Wikipedia is contains at least one major fabricator in the spirit of Jason Blair -- which further brings into question the truthfulness of everything Wikipedia does. The world is ready for a major expose into the dark side of Wikipedia and this may be the route in for major media if done appropriately.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
guy
post Fri 26th January 2007, 8:00pm
Post #50


Postmaster General
*********

Group: Inactive
Posts: 4,294
Joined: Mon 27th Feb 2006, 8:52pm
From: London
Member No.: 23



QUOTE(Alex @ Fri 26th January 2007, 6:16pm) *

What I found odd is that on Essjay's user page he stated he is older than 30 and younger than 45... Which is true? 24 as on Wikia, or the vague 30-45 on Wikipedia? Who knows.

Welcome Alex.

Well, if you're making up everything else, why not your age?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Alex
post Fri 26th January 2007, 8:16pm
Post #51


Back from the dead
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,017
Joined: Wed 24th Jan 2007, 4:39pm
Member No.: 867

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(guy @ Fri 26th January 2007, 8:00pm) *

QUOTE(Alex @ Fri 26th January 2007, 6:16pm) *

What I found odd is that on Essjay's user page he stated he is older than 30 and younger than 45... Which is true? 24 as on Wikia, or the vague 30-45 on Wikipedia? Who knows.

Welcome Alex.

Well, if you're making up everything else, why not your age?

Good point. I don't think he's making everything up though.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Daniel Brandt
post Fri 26th January 2007, 8:33pm
Post #52


Postmaster
*******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 2,473
Joined: Fri 24th Mar 2006, 12:23am
Member No.: 77



QUOTE(Alex @ Fri 26th January 2007, 2:16pm) *

I don't think he's making everything up though.

Quite true. The fact that he has a cat named Mia is on the Wikia user page, and I remember seeing it on one of his old Wikipedia user pages also. (I wonder if Essjay's cat would get along with SlimVirgin's poodle?)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
a view from the hive
post Sat 27th January 2007, 3:58am
Post #53


Junior Member
**

Group: Contributors
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat 30th Dec 2006, 12:42am
From: Milky Way Galaxy
Member No.: 768

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Fri 26th January 2007, 12:33pm) *

QUOTE(Alex @ Fri 26th January 2007, 2:16pm) *

I don't think he's making everything up though.

Quite true. The fact that he has a cat named Mia is on the Wikia user page, and I remember seeing it on one of his old Wikipedia user pages also. (I wonder if Essjay's cat would get along with SlimVirgin's poodle?)


Well, the cat's cute...... lots and lots of pet pics on Wiki, I swear there are more pet pics than human pictures there.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Somey
post Sat 27th January 2007, 6:35pm
Post #54


Can't actually moderate (or even post)
*********

Group: Moderators
Posts: 11,815
Joined: Sat 17th Jun 2006, 7:47pm
From: Dreamland
Member No.: 275



Personally, I think he really just owns a hamster named "Osgood," and he's trying to make fools of us all!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Daniel Brandt
post Tue 6th February 2007, 10:57am
Post #55


Postmaster
*******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 2,473
Joined: Fri 24th Mar 2006, 12:23am
Member No.: 77



Essjay has officially outed himself on Wikipedia, the same as he did on Wikia. Here's the new subsection on his Wikipedia user page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay/Me

On his main user page where this subsection now appears, look directly above that. There he brags that "I was mentioned several times in an article about Wikipedia in The New Yorker." As we all know by now, this is the same article where he sports two PhDs and holds a tenured faculty position at a private university -- credentials that have enhanced his Wikipedia status since he started as an editor.

Now that takes guts. Essjay outs himself on Wikipedia, at the same time that he cites an authoritative source saying that he isn't really who he says he is. I hope he never messes with my biography -- obviously he's no more qualified to edit biographies of living persons than Chip Berlet and SlimVirgin are.

I'm assuming that Essjay is a living person -- we still cannot be sure that he's real. He pretends he is because he now states that he has had "dinner with Sannse and Angela, and breakfast with Jimbo Wales." Well, that's a start, but at this point it's not nearly as authoritative as The New Yorker, which is known for its careful fact-checking. At a minimum, we need notorized statements from these three, and images of these statements belong on his user page. We cannot take Essjay's word for this.

Or, he could just apologize for lying to Wikipedia and Stacy Schiff of The New Yorker, and to all of the readers of that esteemed publication.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Alex
post Tue 6th February 2007, 3:07pm
Post #56


Back from the dead
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,017
Joined: Wed 24th Jan 2007, 4:39pm
Member No.: 867

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 6th February 2007, 10:57am) *

Essjay has officially outed himself on Wikipedia, the same as he did on Wikia. Here's the new subsection on his Wikipedia user page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay/Me

On his main user page where this subsection now appears, look directly above that. There he brags that "I was mentioned several times in an article about Wikipedia in The New Yorker." As we all know by now, this is the same article where he sports two PhDs and holds a tenured faculty position at a private university -- credentials that have enhanced his Wikipedia status since he started as an editor.

Now that takes guts. Essjay outs himself on Wikipedia, at the same time that he cites an authoritative source saying that he isn't really who he says he is. I hope he never messes with my biography -- obviously he's no more qualified to edit biographies of living persons than Chip Berlet and SlimVirgin are.

I'm assuming that Essjay is a living person -- we still cannot be sure that he's real. He pretends he is because he now states that he has had "dinner with Sannse and Angela, and breakfast with Jimbo Wales." Well, that's a start, but at this point it's not nearly as authoritative as The New Yorker, which is known for its careful fact-checking. At a minimum, we need notorized statements from these three, and images of these statements belong on his user page. We cannot take Essjay's word for this.

Or, he could just apologize for lying to Wikipedia and Stacy Schiff of The New Yorker, and to all of the readers of that esteemed publication.

Perhaps he made up the stuff to throw off vandals and trolls... and he's only had to reveal his identity because he joined Wikia. I'm sure there's an explanation for it all.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jonny Cache
post Tue 6th February 2007, 3:22pm
Post #57


τα δε μοι παθήματα μαθήματα γέγονε
*********

Group: Contributors
Posts: 5,100
Joined: Sat 9th Sep 2006, 1:52am
Member No.: 398

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Alex @ Tue 6th February 2007, 10:07am) *

Perhaps he made up the stuff to throw off vandals and trolls ... and he's only had to reveal his identity because he joined Wikia. I'm sure there's an explanation for it all.


In the old days we used to just say that (1) our dog (2) our little brother/sister ate our book report.

Thanks to the amazing advances in modern technology, kids today can say that the trolls trashed it.

Better living through alchemy ...

Jonny cool.gif

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Tue 6th February 2007, 3:22pm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Somey
post Tue 6th February 2007, 5:24pm
Post #58


Can't actually moderate (or even post)
*********

Group: Moderators
Posts: 11,815
Joined: Sat 17th Jun 2006, 7:47pm
From: Dreamland
Member No.: 275



QUOTE(Alex @ Tue 6th February 2007, 9:07am) *
Perhaps he made up the stuff to throw off vandals and trolls...

These "vandals and trolls" - I take it they're called that because they generally have greater respect than most people for advanced degrees, and for the sort of professionalism one would expect from a tenured college professor? And they therefore are less likely to dispute editorial decisions made by such a person than the average Wikipedian, even if those decisions might be otherwise questionable?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Daniel Brandt
post Wed 7th February 2007, 9:13pm
Post #59


Postmaster
*******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 2,473
Joined: Fri 24th Mar 2006, 12:23am
Member No.: 77



Essjay has elaborated a bit on his deception over the past few days. He says the disinformation was to keep "stalkers and psychopaths" off of his trail (not "vandals and trolls"). He's proud that he was successful. His friends are now congratulating him because he is even more "cool" than they thought! And Essjay is delighted that now that he's outed, he gets to have dinner with, and hang out with, the cabal in real life, all of whom naturally approve of his deception.

QUOTE
Actually, I did six hours of interviews with the reporter, and two with a fact checker, but I was really surprised that they were willing to do an interview with someone who they couldn't confirm; I can only assume that it is proof I was doing a good job playing the part. Essjay (Talk) 05:25, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Take that, The New Yorker! Essjay and all of Wikipedia says, "You're a bunch of idiots! We fooled you into drinking our Kool-Aid!"

Well, now, maybe it's time for The New Yorker to do another article about Wikipedia.

Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay/Archives/52 (scroll down to "Profiles don't mesh...")

And this one:
QUOTE
One nice thing about being "out" is that now I get to hang out with the rest of the cabal in real life; I had dinner tonight with Jimbo, Angela, Datrio, and Michael Davis. All I can say is, I love my job! Essjay (Talk) 05:25, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

At least I got people reading about Essjay on Slashdot, moderated up to a 5!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Somey
post Wed 7th February 2007, 10:23pm
Post #60


Can't actually moderate (or even post)
*********

Group: Moderators
Posts: 11,815
Joined: Sat 17th Jun 2006, 7:47pm
From: Dreamland
Member No.: 275



My God, what utter bullshit!

QUOTE
The stalkers picked up on it immediately (but couldn't believe that a 24 year old had fooled them), but nobody here seemed to notice, which I didn't find particularly odd, since I expected that everybody here knew what was going on.

What stalkers? Since when is Essjay - sorry, "Ryan Jordan" - being stalked? And by whom? And who does he think was "fooled"? Certainly not us - we've been saying there's something fishy about this guy for months.

Here's what I think happened here: Some nobody working a go-nowhere job, with no academic qualifications to speak of, shows up one day on Wikipedia. He wants to be treated with respect he doesn't deserve, so he lies, and claims to be a college professor. Tenured, no less! This, on a site that's well-known for being disrespectful towards academics and experts in general - apparently they not only disrespect them as users, they disrespect them as people, too. Enough to treat their accomplishments and titles as just silly little strings of worthless characters that apparently any 22-year-old in a go-nowhere sales job can lay claim to without fear of consequences. After all, "WP:AGF", right?

So he spends practically every waking hour on WP, working his way up the ladder to just about the very tippy top! And when anybody claims that WP doesn't like experts and academics, they just say "oh, but what about Essjay?" And nobody questions him, because they're dazzled by the Ph.D., and the honor of working with such an "esteemed expert" in Roman Catholicism, or whatever it is he's into. Nobody on WP seems to notice that a "tenured professor" is spending 16 hours a day editing WP, fiddling with templates, closing AfD's and RfA's, and other little chores that a typical college professor would probably find completely beneath them. Noooo!

Of course, we here at Wikipedia Review notice it, particularly Daniel, since he's good at critical thinking, and once it's pointed out it quickly becomes obvious that something weird is happening. But when we raise the question of what the hell is going on, we're accused of what? "Stalking"? Being a "hate site"?

And after all this, he gets a lovely paying job where presumably he gets to sit at home all day, chat with his friends, and do what he's already addicted to doing anyway - namely, mess around endlessly on WP. Nice work if you can get it! And now they're patting him on the back, saying "way to go, Essjay! You sure showed them, huh!"

Why is this not a huge scandal? Why is the media giving this guy a free pass? He's a total fraud, for shit's sake!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

12 Pages V < 1 2 3 4 5 > » 
Closed TopicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

-   Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th 1 18, 10:56pm