New arbitrators are quite young Options Rating

[Daniel Brandt]

Arbcom is beginning to look like that island in Lord of the Flies. KnightLago is a third-year law student (maybe age 23), Mailer_diablo is about 21, Fritzpoll is a grad student, Hersfold is an undergrad.

If they surprise us and do well, the best we can hope for will still resemble a high-school student council meeting.

[The Joy]

Arbcom is beginning to look like that island in Lord of the Flies. KnightLago is a third-year law student (maybe age 23), Mailer_diablo is about 21, Fritzpoll is a grad student, Hersfold is an undergrad.

If they surprise us and do well, the best we can hope for will still resemble a high-school student council meeting.

Yeah, but usually high school councils have no power and only exist to advise the principal.

And we all know that Wikipedia has no principal or principle!

[Obesity]

Arbcom is beginning to look like that island in Lord of the Flies. KnightLago is a third-year law student (maybe age 23), Mailer_diablo is about 21, Fritzpoll is a grad student, Hersfold is an undergrad.

If they surprise us and do well, the best we can hope for will still resemble a high-school student council meeting.

Fred Bauder looks very, very, very old. I believe William Connolley is middle aged. Plus they use their real names. Maybe you should have voted for them.

[One]

Yeah, but usually high school councils have no power and only exist to advise the principal.

Tell me about it.

[Nerd]

Arbcom is beginning to look like that island in Lord of the Flies. KnightLago is a third-year law student (maybe age 23), Mailer_diablo is about 21, Fritzpoll is a grad student, Hersfold is an undergrad.

I'm not seeing the connection to Lord of the Flies - unless a 23-year-old is now classified as a child. And, as I'm sure you're fully aware, it's possible to be an undergrad at any age.

Considering they say that a human is at their prime in around their 20s, I'm not seeing the problem here. So what if they're younger than you? Aren't most people here?

[CharlotteWebb]

…unless a 23-year-old is now classified as a child.

Any insurance agency or student financial aid office will be happy to answer that question for you.

[jayvdb]

Considering they say that a human is at their prime in around their 20s, ...

In their prime for managing disputes in an encyclopedia sausage factory..?

[Nerd]

…unless a 23-year-old is now classified as a child.

Any insurance agency or student financial aid office will be happy to answer that question for you.

Unless the definition of child changed overnight, it seems I am completely correct as usual.

[Daniel Brandt]

And, as I'm sure you're fully aware, it's possible to be an undergrad at any age.

Undergrad Hersfold lives in a residence hall on campus.

All I'm saying is that if the data were available to make it possible to compute the mean and median age of all arbitrators, and also the the mean and median age of all banned users, which group would be older? I bet that the banned users are older. And wiser.

Go figure.

[Nerd]

And, as I'm sure you're fully aware, it's possible to be an undergrad at any age.

Undergrad Hersfold lives in a residence hall on campus.

All I'm saying is that if the data were available to make it possible to compute the mean and median age of all arbitrators, and also the the mean and median age of all banned users, which group would be older? I bet that the banned users are older. And wiser.

Go figure.

Possibly, unless you count people like Grawp. Then again, we have Risker, Rlevse, FloNight, Newyorkbrad etc who aren't children.

Honestly, I bet they're about the same sort of age, and intelligence level.

[dtobias]

This whole thread is nothing but ageism... Brandt comes off as a crotchety old geezer whining about how the kids today have no morals. At least when the "kids on Wikipedia" WR meme pertains to actual legal minors, it has a point to it, but when it's just to go on about how people in their 20s have no business having any actual power, it's just being an old grouch. Brandt should get a time machine and try telling his '60s student activist self how young people should be seen and not heard.

[CharlotteWebb]

Unless the definition of child changed overnight, it seems I am completely correct as usual.

My point is that certain entities presume you are categorically irresponsible and still snarfing a massive allowance from mom and dad until at least 25 (unless you can prove total estrangement), though not a literal child. Certain employers and most car rentals will require applicants to be older than this lest their insurers shit bricks (though as well many are self-insured, have a policy which exists only on paper, or simply don't care).

Sure I realize Wikipedia is not rocket science, and most of it could be handled acceptably well by the average troglodyte. However it's a trifle demoralizing to be told what you can and can't do by some kiddo who's barely allowed to drink.

More so when you suffer their scurvy mugs leering at you from the flood-lit yearbook cut-outs they uploaded, because at this point you can no longer bear thinking about allowing yourself to consider pretending to take them half-way seriously for the sake of politeness.

[Daniel Brandt]

Brandt comes off as a crotchety old geezer...

It's true that when considering age alone, your mileage may vary. At least I helped stop a war and crush the Selective Service System, which is one reason Dan Tobias and friends didn't have any worries about getting drafted at age 18.

In Texas we have four words to describe Tobias, age 46: "All hat, no cattle."

[Trick cyclist]

Arbcom is beginning to look like that island in Lord of the Flies. KnightLago is a third-year law student (maybe age 23), Mailer_diablo is about 21, Fritzpoll is a grad student, Hersfold is an undergrad.

This reminds me of my late great-grandfather, shocked that people under 50, people younger than his children, were becoming judges and cabinet ministers. To him, his children had never grown up so those younger were obviously mere infants. Well, people in their 20s are occupying positions of some responsibility and I suspect doing them well. Hard luck on older people!

if the data were available to make it possible to compute the mean and median age of all arbitrators, and also the the mean and median age of all banned users, which group would be older? I bet that the banned users are older. And wiser.

It depends on the reason for the ban. Maybe its true for ArbCom bans. If its bans for stupid vandalism, disruption and petty sockpuppetry, less so.

[taiwopanfob]

Arbcom is beginning to look like that island in Lord of the Flies. KnightLago is a third-year law student (maybe age 23), Mailer_diablo is about 21, Fritzpoll is a grad student, Hersfold is an undergrad.

I'm not seeing the connection to Lord of the Flies - unless a 23-year-old is now classified as a child. And, as I'm sure you're fully aware, it's possible to be an undergrad at any age.

Fuck, Nerd, at Wikipedia you are not encouraged to use your head.

Over here, though, it's ok. Go ahead! Here, I'll help: in the absence of other evidence, an "undergrad" is indeed anywhere from 18 to 24 years old with very high probability. To believe, or worse, act, otherwise is just plain fucking stupid.

Considering they say that a human is at their prime in around their 20s, I'm not seeing the problem here. So what if they're younger than you? Aren't most people here?

One of the biggest scams at Wikipedia is how it amounts to a massive, unconscionable waste of human capital.

Nerd, there is this little thing called "experience". It creates stresses and strains and generally tests the character of the supposed "in their prime". Successes and failures of the past guide the wise in the future. Simply throwing those "in their prime" into the arena to see how well they take on the lions is stupid. Even if those "in their prime" have been trained, look fit, and agree with the matter. Really!

Adepts notwithstanding, it has been observed by everyone else on Earth, that most people need their experience in smaller doses over time to build up their full potential while being allowed to make smaller, less fatal mistakes.

If you disagree with this you aren't really fit for a position of much responsibility.

[A Horse With No Name]

Then again, we have Risker, Rlevse, FloNight, Newyorkbrad etc who aren't children.

How old is Risker, anyway? I bet she remembers where she was when she heard the Boer War began.

[Kelly Martin]

Considering they say that a human is at their prime in around their 20s, I'm not seeing the problem here.

"In their prime" for what? This has been studied to some degree; the age of peak performance varies widely depending on the activity in question. If I want ditchdiggers, yeah, I'm probably going to want people in their early twenties. But for most pursuits there's more than just brute vitality that matters. While age is no guarantee of wisdom, at he same time it's very rare to find wisdom in those of little experience, and experience is something that takes time.

[Milton Roe]

This whole thread is nothing but ageism... Brandt comes off as a crotchety old geezer whining about how the kids today have no morals. At least when the "kids on Wikipedia" WR meme pertains to actual legal minors, it has a point to it, but when it's just to go on about how people in their 20s have no business having any actual power, it's just being an old grouch. Brandt should get a time machine and try telling his '60s student activist self how young people should be seen and not heard.

Some of the old-farts sometimes do sound a bit like 60 Minutes' Andy Rooney , who I think should probably shoot himself to put himself out of his misery with modernity.

May I suggest that the answer is not to let older people or younger people have the power, but simply to mimic the professor-grad-student model that works so well in the real world. Divide the power and give it groups with a mix. Young brains are great for creativity and limitless self-assurance. Older ones are better at squelching the natural narcissism that all children have, and pointing out realistic dangers and limits and ways you can screw up endlessly with your shiney new idea (which may not be as new as you think). Your SDS ideas which are barely better than the notion that you (the student) should have whatever you want, and the governement (mummy and daddy) should just give it to you. And not much thinking (any more than a child does) about where "wealth" actually comes from, and how much discipline it takes to make nature (not the government) give puny clawless humans what they want.

It takes both young and mature to get any large project of substance done. The young bubble with an endless supply of new ideas (both good and bad, for they often cannot tell the difference), and older humans, who may know too much to come up with as many genuinely novel ideas, still act as natural selection factories, recognizing good new stuff even if they didn't think of it first, and send the good ideas back to be expanded and incorporated.

If major actions on Wikipedia, like indef-blocking of somebody, where made on the small team prof-grad student model, or even the US infantry-sergeant/fire-team model, they'd probably be better done.

[Newyorkbrad]

Arbcom is beginning to look like that island in Lord of the Flies. KnightLago is a third-year law student (maybe age 23), Mailer_diablo is about 21, Fritzpoll is a grad student, Hersfold is an undergrad.

Here, you express concern that several members of the Arbitration Committee are relatively young and still in school. Awhile ago, you opined that, as an older person with life experience, I was risking my career by editing Wikipedia and should certainly have nothing to do with its Arbitration Committee. These positions are mutually exclusive.

[Milton Roe]

Arbcom is beginning to look like that island in Lord of the Flies. KnightLago is a third-year law student (maybe age 23), Mailer_diablo is about 21, Fritzpoll is a grad student, Hersfold is an undergrad.

Here, you express concern that several members of the Arbitration Committee are relatively young and still in school. Awhile ago, you opined that, as an older person with life experience, I was risking my career by editing Wikipedia and should certainly have nothing to do with its Arbitration Committee. These positions are mutually exclusive.

Not really. We want older persons who are retired (perhaps early, due to their splendid investments and/or achievements) with no career to risk. Or those who still have a career, but as CEO or something, one that is bulletproof. At least somebody with guts about their career; no whining.

"Life experience," Ira, should tell you that your bosses probably don't care a fuck about what you do on WP, so long as it's on your own time. And if they do, they're probably turkeys, so why are you still working for them?