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> JohnnyB256 is gone, Mantanmoreland reincarnated
Cla68
post Tue 29th December 2009, 4:21am
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There is already a thread in a separate forum which touches on this subject. Rather than discussing the Robertson lawsuit article itself, however, I'm going to focus this on Weiss. It appears that JohnnyB256 was the latest reincarnation of Weiss/Mantanmoreland, although it's not stated that way, instead identifying private evidence as the reason for the block. Nevertheless, assuming that the account was operated by Weiss, here's a few things I take away from this episode:

- Why did Weiss react the way he did when I posted the Robertson lawsuit article? Didn't he notice what happened when SlimVirgin and Will BeBack reacted violently to the Eurasian Land Bridge article? Because of their reaction to that article, they made it very clear to everyone that they are not in the least bit neutral about LaRouche. Like them, Weiss should have ignored the article.

- When Weiss did get involved right away, he didn't even try to appear neutral about it. He changed the article to make Robertson look worse and minimize Weiss' involvement. He drastically shortened the lede at the same time he nominated it for deletion. He removed most of the categories. He removed the wikilinks to the article from the McGraw-Hill and BusinessWeek articles, but not from the Robertson or Tiger Management articles. Obvious POV editing.

- The lawsuit article may or may not survive, but one of the reasons this is only an issue is because Weiss fought so hard in the past to keep any mention of it out of his bio. The story is reported on in too many sources- Wall Street Journal, NY Times, etc to ignore it. If he had allowed a short paragraph on it to be added to his bio years ago, then he wouldn't now have to worry about a complete article on the story to exist on Wikipedia or elsewhere (such as Wikipedia Review).

- Has Weiss noticed how many people came out of the woodwork to support keeping the Robertson lawsuit article? Will he now realize that there are now far more people with an interest in seeing him lose his battle over Wikipedia than he has friends willing to help him? (I'm not saying that everyone who voted to delete the article is a friend of Weiss'.)

- Does Weiss realize that the next article about him that may appear in Wikipedia could be titled "Gary Weiss Wikipedia editing controversy", or "Weiss v. Byrne naked short selling feud"? The Register is not the only source to report on these stories, and may not be the main source in the future. Even if the Register was the main source for those articles, from what I'm seeing with regard to the Roberson lawsuit article, it is not a given that the Wikipedia community would vote to delete those articles if created.

- I guess the big question is, will Weiss learn his lesson from everything that has happened so far? Will he realize that he has lost and lost badly his battle to manipulate Wikipedia for his own agenda? Will he now cut his losses and walk away?

This post has been edited by Cla68: Tue 29th December 2009, 4:25am
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Somey
post Tue 29th December 2009, 6:32am
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Mon 28th December 2009, 10:21pm) *
- Why did Weiss react the way he did when I posted the Robertson lawsuit article? ... Weiss should have ignored the article.

I've learned over these last 3-4 years that the real hard-cases go through a lot of denial before they finally realize that they're just not that clever - and that's if they ever realize it. Also, bear in mind that he doesn't like you one bit, and that's putting it mildly... And of course, another thing that might explain his behavior is that he's getting paid for it.

QUOTE
I guess the big question is, will Weiss learn his lesson from everything that has happened so far? Will he realize that he has lost and lost badly his battle to manipulate Wikipedia for his own agenda? Will he now cut his losses and walk away?

No....

That won't happen until someone he actually respects or fears decides to sanction him for what he's been doing, and nobody on Wikipedia fits that description.
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post Tue 29th December 2009, 6:53am
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Tue 29th December 2009, 4:21am) *

- Has Weiss noticed how many people came out of the woodwork to support keeping the Robertson lawsuit article? Will he now realize that there are now far more people with an interest in seeing him lose his battle over Wikipedia than he has friends willing to help him? (I'm not saying that everyone who voted to delete the article is a friend of Weiss'.)

I think articles should be kept or deleted based on policy, and not as a reaction to those who want them deleted. I don't want JohnnyB256 to "win" a battle, but if that article is notable, a very large number of settled lawsuits with BLP implications are notable. I think that's the wrong result. I hope that this material will instead be covered in Tiger Management with perhaps a sentence from the Weiss article. That his alleged sockpuppets fought the material does not elevate this suit to independent notability.

Wikipedia's AFD process breaks down when debating the retention of articles related to users.

This post has been edited by One: Tue 29th December 2009, 6:55am
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WordBomb
post Tue 29th December 2009, 6:59am
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Mon 28th December 2009, 9:21pm) *
- I guess the big question is, will Weiss learn his lesson from everything that has happened so far? Will he realize that he has lost and lost badly his battle to manipulate Wikipedia for his own agenda? Will he now cut his losses and walk away?
People here have been saying for over a year that JohnnyB256 was Weiss, and I've been saying for just as long that I didn't think so. That's because:
a: I've just not been paying very much attention to Wikipedia since Weiss was sent packing the last time, and
b: I couldn't imagine that he could POSSIBLY be so brazen and/or stupid to go right back to the same m.o. as before.

Once Cla68's article on the Weiss libel lawsuit was published, it took about five minutes for Johnny to completely lose his bearings and revert to classic Weiss. This is why I adore this guy: he's enslaved by his emotions. Just a little pushing and it's over.

Somebody please remind me to take advantage of this bug in Weiss's coding more often.

Anyway, I spent a while today looking over JohnnyB's contribs to find the inevitable sockmates, and I think I've found a few, though only one is active.

The obvious socks are Stetsonharry (active) and Janeyryan (retired).

A less obvious but quite likely sock is Beganlocal, while a darkhorse outside possibility is Westmorlandia.

I've yet to spot it, but I have a strong feeling that sometime in September of this year, Beganlocal screwed up during an interaction with JohnnyB and revealed their sockiness, which is why that account has been decommissioned.

But with JohnnyB gone, I predict these guys will quickly be dusted off and put back into action...particularly Stetsonharry.

But here's what kills me:

Assuming I'm only right about Stetsonharry, that means in the space of about 18 months, Weiss has made over 8,200 edits. That's 15/day on average (whereas I, in that same time period, have made about 15 total, including three just today). And that's fine, except it makes it even harder to answer the question: how does Weiss make a living? His two books were commercial flops so there's no way he's surviving off royalties, much less an advance on a future project. He blogs once or twice a month for Portfolio.com (max $100 a pop). Every quarter he gets a 500 word column in Parade Magazine (max $1,000 each). And that's it.

Or maybe this makes it easier to explain how Weiss makes a living.

Who, but someone getting paid for it, would work so obsessively at injecting misinformation into five articles related to financial fraud on Wikipedia? I mean he had to really, really work at it. Has there ever been a more determined and evasive sockpuppet in the history of Wikipedia?

And of course, this is nothing compared to the Oscar-worthy acting job he pulled of as both Mantanmoreland and Samiharris on ye olde Cyberstalking list two years ago (I've got the emails and have been reading them with great interest).

We knew he was working for the Depository Trust and Clearing Corp back in 2006, but I assumed that ended after we made it public.

Maybe not.

Or maybe he's just lost it. The guy's almost 60 and must be a little crisis-wracked, given the state of his reputation and career.

Whatever the case, my hat's off to Cla68 for creating a compelling article and employing such nimble Weiss-jujitsu when the guy attacked. Very well done.



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thekohser
post Tue 29th December 2009, 3:57pm
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QUOTE(WordBomb @ Tue 29th December 2009, 1:59am) *

...I, in that same time period, have made about 15 total, including three just today).


And blocked by the Fozz Man, for block evasion.

If Wikipediots were allowed out into the real world with their logic, Enron would be in the Fortune 10 right now, and Sherron Watkins would be serving a life sentence in the federal pen.
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WordBomb
post Tue 29th December 2009, 4:55pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 29th December 2009, 8:57am) *
QUOTE(WordBomb @ Tue 29th December 2009, 1:59am) *

...I, in that same time period, have made about 15 total, including three just today).
And blocked by the Fozz Man, for block evasion.

If Wikipediots were allowed out into the real world with their logic, Enron would be in the Fortune 10 right now, and Sherron Watkins would be serving a life sentence in the federal pen.
Go easy on Fozzie. It was entirely my intention to get blocked. I made it very obvious that it was me. I decided to take that route after noticing that JohnnyB256's block message does not tie him to Mantanmoreland.

However you'll note that Larry Bergman's block does tie the account to WordBomb.

Assuming JohnnyB256's situation doesn't change, this inconsistency is how I intend to argue before ArbCom that it should.

So don't be angry at Fozzie.
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thekohser
post Tue 29th December 2009, 5:00pm
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QUOTE(WordBomb @ Tue 29th December 2009, 11:55am) *

Go easy on Fozzie. It was entirely my intention to get blocked. I made it very obvious that it was me. I decided to take that route after noticing that JohnnyB256's block message does not tie him to Mantanmoreland.

However you'll note that Larry Bergman's block does tie the account to WordBomb.

Assuming JohnnyB256's situation doesn't change, this inconsistency is how I intend to argue before ArbCom that it should.

So don't be angry at Fozzie.


I don't understand how Larry Bergman's block "ties" the account to WordBomb.

QUOTE
17:07, 28 December 2009 SirFozzie (talk | contribs) blocked Larry Bergman (talk | contribs) (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of indefinite ‎ (Block evasion)
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Cedric
post Tue 29th December 2009, 5:04pm
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Mon 28th December 2009, 10:21pm) *

- Why did Weiss react the way he did when I posted the Robertson lawsuit article? Didn't he notice what happened when SlimVirgin and Will BeBack reacted violently to the Eurasian Land Bridge article? Because of their reaction to that article, they made it very clear to everyone that they are not in the least bit neutral about LaRouche. Like them, Weiss should have ignored the article.

- When Weiss did get involved right away, he didn't even try to appear neutral about it. He changed the article to make Robertson look worse and minimize Weiss' involvement. He drastically shortened the lede at the same time he nominated it for deletion. He removed most of the categories. He removed the wikilinks to the article from the McGraw-Hill and BusinessWeek articles, but not from the Robertson or Tiger Management articles. Obvious POV editing.

- The lawsuit article may or may not survive, but one of the reasons this is only an issue is because Weiss fought so hard in the past to keep any mention of it out of his bio. The story is reported on in too many sources- Wall Street Journal, NY Times, etc to ignore it. If he had allowed a short paragraph on it to be added to his bio years ago, then he wouldn't now have to worry about a complete article on the story to exist on Wikipedia or elsewhere (such as Wikipedia Review).

- Has Weiss noticed how many people came out of the woodwork to support keeping the Robertson lawsuit article? Will he now realize that there are now far more people with an interest in seeing him lose his battle over Wikipedia than he has friends willing to help him? (I'm not saying that everyone who voted to delete the article is a friend of Weiss'.)

- Does Weiss realize that the next article about him that may appear in Wikipedia could be titled "Gary Weiss Wikipedia editing controversy", or "Weiss v. Byrne naked short selling feud"? The Register is not the only source to report on these stories, and may not be the main source in the future. Even if the Register was the main source for those articles, from what I'm seeing with regard to the Roberson lawsuit article, it is not a given that the Wikipedia community would vote to delete those articles if created.

- I guess the big question is, will Weiss learn his lesson from everything that has happened so far? Will he realize that he has lost and lost badly his battle to manipulate Wikipedia for his own agenda? Will he now cut his losses and walk away?

While these behaviors of Weiss/Mannisox may perplex you, they do not mystify me. I seem to recall that Somey and others here have pointed out that many of Mannisox's behaviors, both "on wiki" and "off wiki", appear to be narcissistic. I tend to agree. If indeed Mannisox suffers from NPD, lack of empathy is a major indicator. That being the case, Mannisox would have very little if any understanding of actually why others disagree with him, and how they manage to see through him, nor would he care. This would also mean he has essentially learned nothing from his failures on WP, and will keep coming back for more until such time as he receives effective treatment or WP implodes, whichever comes first.

Not a psychologist, YMMV, etc., etc.
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WordBomb
post Tue 29th December 2009, 5:11pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 29th December 2009, 10:00am) *

QUOTE(WordBomb @ Tue 29th December 2009, 11:55am) *

Go easy on Fozzie. It was entirely my intention to get blocked. I made it very obvious that it was me. I decided to take that route after noticing that JohnnyB256's block message does not tie him to Mantanmoreland.

However you'll note that Larry Bergman's block does tie the account to WordBomb.

Assuming JohnnyB256's situation doesn't change, this inconsistency is how I intend to argue before ArbCom that it should.

So don't be angry at Fozzie.


I don't understand how Larry Bergman's block "ties" the account to WordBomb.

QUOTE
17:07, 28 December 2009 SirFozzie (talk | contribs) blocked Larry Bergman (talk | contribs) (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of indefinite ‎ (Block evasion)
Look here: {{Blockedsock|WordBomb}}
Yet there's some reticence to label JohnnyB a Mantanmoreland sock. But it might just be an oversight. Let us hope.


QUOTE(Cedric @ Tue 29th December 2009, 10:04am) *
While these behaviors of Weiss/Mannisox may perplex you, they do not mystify me. I seem to recall that Somey and others here have pointed out that many of Mannisox's behaviors, both "on wiki" and "off wiki", appear to be narcissistic. I tend to agree. If indeed Mannisox suffers from NPD, lack of empathy is a major indicator. That being the case, Mannisox would have very little if any understanding of actually why others disagree with him, and how they manage to see through him, nor would he care. This would also mean he has essentially learned nothing from his failures on WP, and will keep coming back for more until such time as he receives effective treatment or WP implodes, whichever comes first.

Not a psychologist, YMMV, etc., etc.
Very astute. I don't know if I've mentioned it here, but Weiss was once a participant on a Yahoo group dedicated to discussing NPD. He claimed it was his brother who had the problem.
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Cedric
post Tue 29th December 2009, 6:05pm
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QUOTE(WordBomb @ Tue 29th December 2009, 11:11am) *

Very astute. I don't know if I've mentioned it here, but Weiss was once a participant on a Yahoo group dedicated to discussing NPD. He claimed it was his brother who had the problem.

Not sure how astute that is, but thanks. However, I was not previously aware that Mannisox posted on a NPD forum. I find that very interesting.
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A Horse With No Name
post Tue 29th December 2009, 6:34pm
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QUOTE(WordBomb @ Tue 29th December 2009, 11:55am) *

So don't be angry at Fozzie.


Indeed. Let's get Paula Deen to come in and make Foz a nice tasty snack:





I gotta tell ya, Paula Deen uses the most butter I've seen this side of "Last Tango in Paris." evilgrin.gif
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SirFozzie
post Tue 29th December 2009, 7:29pm
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QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 29th December 2009, 1:34pm) *

QUOTE(WordBomb @ Tue 29th December 2009, 11:55am) *

So don't be angry at Fozzie.


Indeed. Let's get Paula Deen to come in and make Foz a nice tasty snack:





I gotta tell ya, Paula Deen uses the most butter I've seen this side of "Last Tango in Paris." evilgrin.gif



No thanks. Make it a country fried steak, and you may have my interest however wink.gif
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A Horse With No Name
post Wed 30th December 2009, 12:46am
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QUOTE(SirFozzie @ Tue 29th December 2009, 2:29pm) *

No thanks. Make it a country fried steak, and you may have my interest however wink.gif


Gee, and I always assumed that you had no taste. My error. smile.gif
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tarantino
post Wed 30th December 2009, 3:07am
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QUOTE(WordBomb @ Tue 29th December 2009, 6:59am) *


The obvious socks are Stetsonharry (active) and Janeyryan (retired).



QUOTE

Greed on aisle 6
By sending its CEO packing, Home Depot revealed once again why huge executive salaries are a scam.
By Gary Weiss

…I call it the Falk/Reles Theorem of Executive Compensation. This was set forth not in an academic paper but in a really great 1960 movie, "Murder Inc.," starring Peter Falk as the mob killer Abe Reles. …


Stetsonharry has made 95 edits to Murder, Inc. (film) and 80 edits to Peter Falk, two of his top four frequently edited pages.
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EricBarbour
post Wed 30th December 2009, 3:57am
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QUOTE(tarantino @ Tue 29th December 2009, 7:07pm) *

QUOTE
Greed on aisle 6
By Gary Weiss

Stetsonharry has made 95 edits to Murder, Inc. (film) and 80 edits to Peter Falk, two of his top four frequently edited pages.

Not only is he NPD, he's apparently looking for abuse as well.

Look at the history of the naked-shorting article. I would not be surprised to learn that
90% of the editors listed there are Gary Weiss.

Oh,yeah: did you know that Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The (T-C-L-K-R-D) was a sock of Tony Sidaway?

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Wed 30th December 2009, 4:11am
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WordBomb
post Wed 30th December 2009, 4:38am
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Hey Fozzie, as long as you've got your banstick out: AmishPete.
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Somey
post Wed 30th December 2009, 6:05am
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QUOTE(tarantino @ Tue 29th December 2009, 9:07pm) *
QUOTE
Greed on aisle 6
By sending its CEO packing, Home Depot revealed once again why huge executive salaries are a scam. By Gary Weiss…

Again, at the risk of being seen to defend someone who has obviously been running multiple WP accounts for some time in near-total contempt of WP's so-called community, this salon.com article does make some extremely salient and valid points about the problem of excessive executive compensation.
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Piperdown
post Wed 30th December 2009, 6:42am
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QUOTE(Cedric @ Tue 29th December 2009, 6:05pm) *

QUOTE(WordBomb @ Tue 29th December 2009, 11:11am) *

Very astute. I don't know if I've mentioned it here, but Weiss was once a participant on a Yahoo group dedicated to discussing NPD. He claimed it was his brother who had the problem.

Not sure how astute that is, but thanks. However, I was not previously aware that Mannisox posted on a NPD forum. I find that very interesting.


I think gary's yahoo groups truthseeking was under his "pascallamb" or similar nom. The usenet groups stuff from the 90's under his several guises as seen on the ol' antisocialmedia is a treasure trove of dysfunction. Alky Anon group, itchy cat allergy posts, divorce issues, droopy dick issues, etc. Part of what makes Gary such a lovable interwebber. That was of course before he started going all out railing against P.Byrne's genitalia characteristics on Yahoo Finance. And that was before Byrne had even heard of Gary. Seems Gary didn't much care for Byrne making mincemeat of his Rocker Buddy Jeffie Matthews. Like Word says, Whacky Gawy's buttons get pushed and he has no control over the pavlovian responses.

This one is likely GW--> User:Patchyreynolds
Kept in the hip pocket for periodic sleeper cell-ing.

And it was pretty clear from the get-go that Gary really didn't care that JonnyB256 was obviously him -- it edited New Mexico related articles right along with NSS/Ostock/Byrne. Might as well have edited Varkala while he was at it. But he got to edit for over a year anyway. Some bans are more equal than others.

This post has been edited by Piperdown: Wed 30th December 2009, 6:45am
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Piperdown
post Wed 30th December 2009, 6:55am
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Just read AmishPete's WP missives.

Classic Gary, lol. He's in good spirits it seems and must have enjoyed his Jonny Ban. Since going out crying like a little biatch as Sami/Manny, he's learned to stop worrying and love the ban bomb.

But remember, Gary's got a knitting circle of highly motivated friends (um, at least the ones who haven't already turned over hard drives and emails to the good guys) who are always willing to log on to the WP and timeshare accounts to mess with the WP peckercheckers. Good luck with that.
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Cla68
post Wed 30th December 2009, 7:06am
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Hmm, if the thought of embarassing and negative information piling up in his WP bio isn't enough to get Weiss to walk away, what will, besides what Somey said above? If the ArbCom has enough information to link any of these current and past accounts to Weiss, perhaps they should do like they did with Scientology, and ban Weiss by name. To avoid threatened defamation suits and emails from Mike Godwin, I suggest simply banning Weiss without giving a reason, saying that it is based on private information.

Oh, and Weiss doesn't even appear to be trying to hide that some of the accounts mentioned above, like AmishPete or Stetsonharry, belong to him.

This post has been edited by Cla68: Wed 30th December 2009, 7:21am
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