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> Cirt: I think it figured it out! They are a robot!, tounge and cheek
rockyBarton
post Wed 20th January 2010, 4:26pm
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As you will see in this exchange, it is now self-evident that Cirt must be a machine. Displaying what appears to be complete ignorance of normal human social cues, Cirt continues to insist that a religious group that has existed almost since the protestant reformation is "new" because an obscure scholar said so in a book. In Cirt's world, common sense has no place interfering with a source he has deemed reliable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_...gious_movements
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Amish
Why is a church that was founded in 1693 listed as a "new" religious movement? I can't see why the Amish church is on here? After over 300 years, doesn't it stop being "new"? Niteshift36 (talk) 01:34, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Described as such in The Encyclopedia of cults, sects, and new religions. Cirt (talk) 02:07, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw the source. But doesn't common sense come into play at some point? Just because a single author calls it "new", is if forever new? Compared to Judaism, yes, it's new. Compared to a lot of the religions on this list, it's not. Take it a step further. 50 years from now, that book will still exist and still call it new. Will it still be new? (yes, I know it is a 1998 book, that's not the point). At some point, we have to use our common sense. The other part of the question is, since I don't have to book in front of me, I have to rely on someone else.....Did the book actually call them a new religion? The title is cults, sects and new religions. Amish would certainly be considered a sect. That wouldn't mean that the author called them a cult or a new religion. Niteshift36 (talk) 02:28, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I've always thought of the Amish as kind of old. Kitfoxxe (talk) 05:01, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

That's kind of the point. The sect is over 300 years old. But some author may have called them now, so we throw common sense out the window and put him on this list. Most people wouldn't call an organization that is over 300 years old "new". Niteshift36 (talk) 05:55, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

We should stick to WP:RS and WP:V, and avoid making up our own POV interpretations of what is or is not a "new religious movement". Best to stick to what is said on the matter by scholarly sources. Cirt (talk) 06:21, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
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Maybe there should be a separate "Cirtapedia" created for him and people like him.
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RDH(Ghost In The Machine)
post Wed 20th January 2010, 4:42pm
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Those with no minds of their own use policy as a crutch.
Those who are out of their minds use it as a club.
Cirt tries to use it as both.
bash.gif

This post has been edited by RDH(Ghost In The Machine): Wed 20th January 2010, 4:44pm
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Milton Roe
post Wed 20th January 2010, 5:07pm
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QUOTE(rockyBarton @ Wed 20th January 2010, 9:26am) *

QUOTE(Cirt)
We should stick to WP:RS and WP:V, and avoid making up our own POV interpretations of what is or is not a "new religious movement". Best to stick to what is said on the matter by scholarly sources. Cirt (talk) 06:21, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


Best if a scholarly sourse says something this weird, we should explicitly put some statement in the text like "Scholar XYZ describes the Amish sect as 'new.'" with cite, in order to avoid the many mellow.gif hmmm.gif blink.gif wacko.gif reactions from readers.

Yes, Cirt could be an early-model cyborg. More likely Ass-berger Pinhead-drome.
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LessHorrid vanU
post Wed 20th January 2010, 9:16pm
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I don't know if Cirt dislikes religions, or just "new" religions. I have seen him behaving rather boorishly on Scientology related topics - and anything that makes me feel sorry for that bunch really is very boorish.
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Premier player
post Thu 21st January 2010, 1:02pm
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QUOTE(rockyBarton @ Wed 20th January 2010, 4:26pm) *

As you will see in this exchange, it is now self-evident that Cirt must be a machine.

I was quite surprised to see that Cirt isn't winning hands down in the Miss Uncongeniality poll. The other candidates are all amateurs; he could be professional. Maybe it's a sign that too many of the voters here are only amateur critics. (ducks)


QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Wed 20th January 2010, 9:16pm) *

I have seen him behaving rather boorishly on Scientology related topics

And only those?
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RDH(Ghost In The Machine)
post Thu 21st January 2010, 1:37pm
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QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Wed 20th January 2010, 9:16pm) *

I don't know if Cirt dislikes religions, or just "new" religions. I have seen him behaving rather boorishly on Scientology related topics - and anything that makes me feel sorry for that bunch really is very boorish.


Indeed many of these SciTol critics are as bad as the SciTols zealots.
Right said, Fred Nietzsche.

Remember, Cirt started out as Smee and then Smeelgova. He accumulated a block record and a bad rep as a PoV warrior on Scientology topics. But under a fresh identity along with the support and tutelage of Witchiepoo, he became a made moron who can now get away with most anything so long as he can spout sacred policy to justify it.
On Bizarro wikiworld, policy is more important than product.

In fact he and his mistress gamed WP's privacy policy as a justification for not coming clean about his previous identities (which would have surely sunk his Rfa). He was afraid, you see, of real-life retaliation by those crazy SciTols. Once he was a made maid, he could use it again after the facts became public, to prevent his magik mop being taken away due to it being acquired under false pretenses. It's dirty pool and bad form to be sure...but all perfectly legal within the confines of Wiki-land.

This post has been edited by RDH(Ghost In The Machine): Thu 21st January 2010, 1:38pm
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HRIP7
post Mon 8th February 2010, 2:45pm
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QUOTE(RDH(Ghost In The Machine) @ Thu 21st January 2010, 1:37pm) *

QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Wed 20th January 2010, 9:16pm) *

I don't know if Cirt dislikes religions, or just "new" religions. I have seen him behaving rather boorishly on Scientology related topics - and anything that makes me feel sorry for that bunch really is very boorish.


Indeed many of these SciTol critics are as bad as the SciTols zealots.
Right said, Fred Nietzsche.

Remember, Cirt started out as Smee and then Smeelgova. He accumulated a block record and a bad rep as a PoV warrior on Scientology topics. But under a fresh identity along with the support and tutelage of Witchiepoo, he became a made moron who can now get away with most anything so long as he can spout sacred policy to justify it.
On Bizarro wikiworld, policy is more important than product.

In fact he and his mistress gamed WP's privacy policy as a justification for not coming clean about his previous identities (which would have surely sunk his Rfa). He was afraid, you see, of real-life retaliation by those crazy SciTols. Once he was a made maid, he could use it again after the facts became public, to prevent his magik mop being taken away due to it being acquired under false pretenses. It's dirty pool and bad form to be sure...but all perfectly legal within the confines of Wiki-land.


Well, I am just in a nice conversation with Cirt here. Prepare for a display of Cirt's mind-numbing skills at argument.
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A Horse With No Name
post Mon 8th February 2010, 3:20pm
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QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Mon 8th February 2010, 9:45am) *
Prepare for a display of Cirt's mind-numbing skills at argument.


It's enough to make a guy take up residence at Simple Wikipedia. ermm.gif
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EricBarbour
post Mon 8th February 2010, 10:06pm
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QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Mon 8th February 2010, 7:20am) *
QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Mon 8th February 2010, 9:45am) *
Prepare for a display of Cirt's mind-numbing skills at argument.

It's enough to make a guy take up residence at Simple Wikipedia. ermm.gif

People have taken a deep look into Cirt's past activities. Lot of nastiness there.
(No idea of much about Cirt, not even gender--he/she did a great job of covering
up his/her identity clues. Another project for Daniel Brandt's amusement.)

And just remember, as was discussed elsewhere tongue.gif , Cirt was suspected of being
Werner Erhard, or at least a former/current adherent to one of Erhard's cultish groups.
Also long suspected of being a paid editor, and possibly an account being shared by more than
one person........

Yes, this is the kind of freak that Wikipedia hands adminships out to.

The only reason Cirt's attracted attention before was because of his/her RFA, and Durova
going around telling people what a good and decent editor Cirt is--and helping to
cover up Cirt's identity and past activities. biggrin.gif .

Previous threads about Cirt here, here, here.

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Mon 8th February 2010, 10:07pm
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HRIP7
post Tue 9th February 2010, 4:10am
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QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Mon 8th February 2010, 10:06pm) *

And just remember, as was discussed elsewhere tongue.gif , Cirt was suspected of being
Werner Erhard, or at least a former/current adherent to one of Erhard's cultish groups.
Also long suspected of being a paid editor, and possibly an account being shared by more than
one person........

Yes, this is the kind of freak that Wikipedia hands adminships out to.

Suspicions are just that. Of the above theories, the one that rings most plausible to me is some former Erhard/est connection that had an unhappy end.

At any rate, this is not the entire story. Cirt does some outstanding work on Wikipedia, with top-notch writing and research skills, and a palpable enjoyment of writing and researching. Cirt can be good fun to work with.

Unfortunately, that is not the entire story either. As noted here by DGG, sometimes the POV problems are just too apparent. Cirt will back off when challenged by another admin, as in this case. But if you're a lowly editor, Cirt will argue and quote policy till you're blue in the face, and take pleasure in bullying you at ANI or RFAR if need be, playing the set-upon victim and portraying exasperated you as the ogre who is "hounding" them and generally trying to destroy Wikipedia. That is less fun, and it has a vindictive edge to it. Even though I am sure that to Cirt it will just feel like self-defense.
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dtobias
post Tue 9th February 2010, 5:11am
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It's about time New York City got renamed to Old York City... it's not particularly new any more.
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Milton Roe
post Tue 9th February 2010, 8:28am
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QUOTE(dtobias @ Mon 8th February 2010, 10:11pm) *

It's about time New York City got renamed to Old York City... it's not particularly new any more.

It's a hell of a lot newer than York!
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Herschelkrustofsky
post Tue 9th February 2010, 3:19pm
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QUOTE(rockyBarton @ Wed 20th January 2010, 8:26am) *

Maybe there should be a separate "Cirtapedia" created for him and people like him.
You mean, for those who may be regarded as "cirtifiable"?
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