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> Adambro blocks JWSchmidt‎ on Wikiversity
Moulton
post Tue 13th July 2010, 10:13am
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QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 13th July 2010, 2:17am) *
Is it just me, or do these folks all seem like completely different people during IRC chat sessions?

I dunno, maybe it's WR itself that's the problem for these guys... Do you think all those little smileys to the left of the edit window are distracting them? I mean, I've learned to just tune them out, but maybe others don't have that ability.

It's a lot like actors going in an out of character, depending on whether they are on-stage or back-stage in the dressing room.

IRC is like the actors' dressing room, where they are discussing how their act is going over.

W-R, on the other hand, is a wine and cheese party where the actors meet the columnists and reviewers who critique their on-stage performances.
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Moulton
post Tue 13th July 2010, 10:46am
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QUOTE(Abd @ Tue 13th July 2010, 1:49am) *
QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Mon 12th July 2010, 5:36pm) *
sleep.gif
I thought so too, first. Then I read it. Ottava, if you see this, do you acknowledge that this was the conversation as it was?

Abd, you can find the same transcript published by Adam on WV. His copy doesn't wrap long lines, so you may find it easier to read the copy I posted here. I assure you they are verbatim and undoctored.

(If someone wants to check, I'm sure there are plenty of people who know how to set up a "diff" on Unix.)

What's really interesting, however, is that Adam has done something significant with the transcript.

He's extracted a few choice segments which illuminate teh dramah.

You can clearly see how strong-arm tactics are standard operating procedure in back-stage power politics. Ottava learned it from Jimbo, who first used it against the four WV bureaucrats who were in charge two years ago.

Abd, a fish rots from the head down. You can see the rotting process directly exposed there, with Ottava and Adam playing their self-selected roles. What role have you selected for yourself in this rotten drama?
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SB_Johnny
post Tue 13th July 2010, 11:07am
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QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 13th July 2010, 2:17am) *

Is it just me, or do these folks all seem like completely different people during IRC chat sessions?

I dunno, maybe it's WR itself that's the problem for these guys... Do you think all those little smileys to the left of the edit window are distracting them? I mean, I've learned to just tune them out, but maybe others don't have that ability.

That's actually just a typical day on #wikiversity-en. Curious though: are you saying that the IRC chat sheds a worse light, or a better one?
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Moulton
post Tue 13th July 2010, 11:25am
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I took Adam's (abridged) version of the same transcript and converted it to HTML with distinct colors for each party and with long lines wrapped for easier reading.
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Moulton
post Tue 13th July 2010, 11:29am
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QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Tue 13th July 2010, 7:07am) *
That's actually just a typical day on #wikiversity-en.

Johnny, can you now say (openly) what similar back-stage arm-twisting went on the first time Jimbo and Cary strong-armed you and the other three bureaucrats two years ago?
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Kelly Martin
post Tue 13th July 2010, 12:09pm
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QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 13th July 2010, 1:17am) *
Do you think all those little smileys to the left of the edit window are distracting them? I mean, I've learned to just tune them out, but maybe others don't have that ability.
Smileys? What smileys are you talking about?
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SB_Johnny
post Tue 13th July 2010, 5:12pm
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QUOTE(Moulton @ Tue 13th July 2010, 7:29am) *

QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Tue 13th July 2010, 7:07am) *
That's actually just a typical day on #wikiversity-en.

Johnny, can you now say (openly) what similar back-stage arm-twisting went on the first time Jimbo and Cary strong-armed you and the other three bureaucrats two years ago?

I thought I already had, but maybe I should write up the story somewhere. Quikie version:

1. Jimbo threatened to shut down Wikiversity if we didn't block you.
2. We told him no.
3. Jimbo threatened to shut down Wikiversity if we didn't block you.
4. We told him that if he was so interested in you being blocked, he should do it himself.
5. Jimbo blocked you, and said it was done on our behalf.

Cary wasn't actually involved in that at all, so I'm not sure why you have such a hard on for him. He did give us a shoulder to cry on (we weren't particularly happy about the whole thing, and Jimbo wasn't replying to emails), but nothing more than that.
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Moulton
post Tue 13th July 2010, 5:23pm
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Thanks. It was Cary who conveyed the "Directive" that you referred to here (and which he then denied was a "Directive" saying (on your own WV talk page) it was only "a strong opinion").

This post has been edited by Moulton: Tue 13th July 2010, 5:57pm
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SB_Johnny
post Tue 13th July 2010, 6:19pm
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QUOTE(Moulton @ Tue 13th July 2010, 1:23pm) *

Thanks. It was Cary who conveyed the "Directive" that you referred to here (and which he then denied was a "Directive" saying (on your own WV talk page) it was only "a strong opinion").

Right. I misunderstood (understandably, IMO), and he corrected me.

I was also under the impression that Jimbo could shut down WV with a wave of his hand. I really wasn't aware of how the whole thing worked at the time. dry.gif

I'd say I would have done differently if I had understood the situation better, but frankly I wouldn't have done anything at all if I had understood the situation better. Hence the whole not contributing anything lately thing. rolleyes.gif
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Moulton
post Tue 13th July 2010, 6:29pm
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QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Tue 13th July 2010, 2:19pm) *
I'd say I would have done differently if I had understood the situation better, but frankly I wouldn't have done anything at all if I had understood the situation better. Hence the whole not contributing anything lately thing. rolleyes.gif

I agree, that your optimal strategy would be to deliberately do nothing at all. In that case, an act of Civil Disobedience would have been the Null Act.

I've been trying (with notable lack of success) to convey to Adam, Abd, and Ottava the concept of Civil Disobedience, illustrating how and when to use it in the face of corrupt practices by officials in power.

In the Story of Caprice, she was simply an innocent kid (a young female goat) who was chosen to be the designated scapegoat in the Yom Kippur Ritual. In her case, her disobedience (departing from the script) revealed the futility of the ritual. You can't solve a systemic problem by picking a convenient scapegoat to blame it on. That is the timeless lesson that the Story of Caprice reminds us of.
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Abd
post Tue 13th July 2010, 7:06pm
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QUOTE(Moulton @ Tue 13th July 2010, 2:29pm) *
I've been trying (with notable lack of success) to convey to Adam, Abd, and Ottava the concept of Civil Disobedience, illustrating how and when to use it in the face of corrupt practices by officials in power.
To be an effective teacher, one must be an even better student. Moulton, you have no idea, apparently, of what I know about civil disobedience, the theory behind it, how it works and how it does not work and when it can become ineffective or possibly even do more harm than good, though that's rare.

My objections to part of your behavior has not been to civil disobedience but to actions that are positively offensive and harmful and, themselves, corrupt, a betrayal as your role of critic, and, within the drama, vicious and with willful disregard of the distress of others. That others, certain administrators, have shown the same willful disregard, does not justify your actions.

Sure, it's just a wiki, and nobody actually cut Caprice's throat here.
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Moulton
post Tue 13th July 2010, 7:10pm
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Good grief, don't stop there. Please spell out the specific actions that you characterize as positively offensive, harmful , vicious, distressful, and corrupt.
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Abd
post Tue 13th July 2010, 7:10pm
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QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Tue 13th July 2010, 2:19pm) *
I'd say I would have done differently if I had understood the situation better, but frankly I wouldn't have done anything at all if I had understood the situation better. Hence the whole not contributing anything lately thing. rolleyes.gif
Once again, I invite SBJ to return to Wikiversity and take up admin tools, to add another, now more experienced, participant in the community consensus. I tried to encourage JWS to do the same. In your case it would be easy, I'm sure you would be resysopped on request. In the case of JWS, now, particularly with what has come down after I made that suggestion to him, it would be more difficult, but if JWS were to provide assurances that are similar to what, I believe, any admin should make, I think it still could be done. I just don't think he's likely to do that.
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SB_Johnny
post Tue 13th July 2010, 7:45pm
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QUOTE(Moulton @ Tue 13th July 2010, 2:29pm) *

I've been trying (with notable lack of success) to convey to Adam, Abd, and Ottava the concept of Civil Disobedience, illustrating how and when to use it in the face of corrupt practices by officials in power.

I believe you may be suffering from a dearth of willing students smile.gif.
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SB_Johnny
post Tue 13th July 2010, 7:50pm
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QUOTE(Abd @ Tue 13th July 2010, 3:10pm) *

QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Tue 13th July 2010, 2:19pm) *
I'd say I would have done differently if I had understood the situation better, but frankly I wouldn't have done anything at all if I had understood the situation better. Hence the whole not contributing anything lately thing. rolleyes.gif
Once again, I invite SBJ to return to Wikiversity and take up admin tools, to add another, now more experienced, participant in the community consensus. I tried to encourage JWS to do the same. In your case it would be easy, I'm sure you would be resysopped on request. In the case of JWS, now, particularly with what has come down after I made that suggestion to him, it would be more difficult, but if JWS were to provide assurances that are similar to what, I believe, any admin should make, I think it still could be done. I just don't think he's likely to do that.

I used to think you were a smart guy, if a bit too verbose. You're getting better about the verbose thing lately, but not so good on the smart thing lately. rolleyes.gif

And Somey: 3 minutes is too short for the combined posts thing.
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Moulton
post Tue 13th July 2010, 9:02pm
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QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Tue 13th July 2010, 3:45pm) *
QUOTE(Moulton @ Tue 13th July 2010, 2:29pm) *
I've been trying (with notable lack of success) to convey to Adam, Abd, and Ottava the concept of Civil Disobedience, illustrating how and when to use it in the face of corrupt practices by officials in power.
I believe you may be suffering from a dearth of willing students smile.gif.

This is hardly a new problem, and hardly one unique to me.

One of the long-unsolved problems in the annals of human history is the challenge of educating the idiot king. The Story of Beckett and King Henry is one of the best in this genre. There was also the Story of Stephen Langton and King John. And then there was the Story of Galileo and Pope Urban.

I frankly don't expect to solve it. But I do hope to gain a smidgeon of insight into the nature of the learning disability that characterizes these fascinating cases.
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Moulton
post Wed 14th July 2010, 6:09am
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Indomitable Spirit

The grandaughter of an Auschwitz survivor returns with her 80-yr old grandfather to dance at the Holocaust Memorials.




I Will Survive - Dancing Auschwitz


BBC World Service story on the above video.
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Moulton
post Thu 15th July 2010, 11:39am
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Fringe Characters and Fringe Science

Adam Brookes, the Javertian Wikiversity cop, blocks tens of thousands of IPs in Eastern Massachusetts...

QUOTE(Adam Brookes on Wikiversity)
(Block log); 10:56 . . Adambro (Talk | contribs) blocked 141.154.0.0/17 (Talk) with an expiry time of 1 month (anonymous users only, account creation disabled) (Repeat disruptive editing of pages: block evasion by User:Moulton)

(Block log); 10:56 . . Adambro (Talk | contribs) blocked 68.163.96.0/20 (Talk) with an expiry time of 1 month (anonymous users only, account creation disabled) (Repeat disruptive editing of pages: block evasion by User:Moulton)

(Block log); 10:56 . . Adambro (Talk | contribs) blocked 68.162.192.0/18 (Talk) with an expiry time of 1 month (anonymous users only, account creation disabled) (Repeat disruptive editing of pages: block evasion by User:Moulton)

(Block log); 10:55 . . Adambro (Talk | contribs) blocked 68.160.128.0/18 (Talk) with an expiry time of 1 month (anonymous users only, account creation disabled) (Repeat disruptive editing of pages: block evasion by User:Moulton)

That's 69,632 IP addresses in Eastern Massachusetts.

So, what was the occasion for all this massive range blocking? Let's go the video tape...

QUOTE(Wikiversity Request for Custodial Action)
Custodial disruption intensifying

Because disruption by Moulton has intensified, he is revert warring as IP to restore his deleted comments, instead of allowing other editors who want them discussed to revert them back in, I am protecting relevant pages for 24 hours. Any admin may reverse this action, I am not insisting on it. Perhaps now we might be more generous with Adambro.... A range block might be more appropriate, but I've never done a range block and I don't want to be experimenting with it without guidance.... --Abd 04:03, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

To minimise collateral damage, a series of range blocks covering the Boston Verizon IPs which have been used will be necessary rather than a single range which would take out many other unrelated IPs. You can use this tool to calculate the appropriate range block based upon a list of IP addresses. I've made a list of IPs used by Moulton and have sorted it into groups to minimise the range blocks. At the moment, this would involved four range blocks of 68.160.128.0/18, 68.162.192.0/18, 68.163.100.0/22 and 141.154.0.0/17 although those may need to be refined further as some of those ranges are probably larger and I am aware that there might be more ranges. Ironically, the more IPs Moulton uses the clearer the requirements of any rangeblock. Those ranges could potentially affect 66,560 IPs. However clearly, we've got to weigh up the potential damage of blocking a load of IPs used by Verizon in Boston versus the other ways in which the block evasion could be prevented. The only other option is semi-protection of an ever growing list of pages which would of course impact on all anonymous/new users rather than just those using Verizon in the Boston area. I think using a range blocks would be preferable in my view since the risk of inconvenience to anyone else is much lower. Adambro 09:13, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Gentlemen, please take note:

“ Thanks all for your communications and efforts. Let's see what others might have to add as well, but I think to take these issues further, please raise them at Colloquium, Request for custodian action, and/or Community Review and let's see how we go at working through them. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 04:25, 15 July 2010 (UTC) ”

In order to undertake the Action Research Protocol which James has called for, it will be necessary for you to ensure that the Colloquium, Request for custodian action, and Community Review remain open for IP editing, and that, going forward, our joint problem-solving discussions are not disrupted by rollback reversions or semi-protection.

Moulton 10:37, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

In order to understand the above a little, better, it will help to review the Recent Changes Twitter Feed from WV...

QUOTE(Wikiversity Twitter Wire[/b)
(diff | hist) . . Wikiversity talk:Request custodian action‎; 10:51 . . (+2,923) . . 68.163.96.175 (Talk) (→Kadima Problem-Solving Services: Adam, it would behoove you to read the contributions of John Bessa, too.)

(diff | hist) . . m Wikiversity talk:Request custodian action‎; 10:48 . . (-2,923) . . Adambro (Talk | contribs) (Reverted edits by 68.162.208.163 (Talk) to last version by Adambro using rollback)

(diff | hist) . . Wikiversity talk:Request custodian action‎; 10:47 . . (+2,923) . . 68.162.208.163 (Talk) (→Kadima Problem-Solving Services: Adam, please respect the recommendations of James Neill)

(Block log); 10:44 . . Adambro (Talk | contribs) blocked 68.163.103.93 (Talk) with an expiry time of 1 week (anonymous users only, account creation disabled) (Repeat disruptive editing of pages: block evasion, User:Moulton)

(diff | hist) . . m Wikiversity talk:Request custodian action‎; 10:44 . . (-2,923) . . Adambro (Talk | contribs) (Reverted edits by 68.163.103.93 (Talk) to last version by Abd using rollback)

(diff | hist) . . Wikiversity talk:Request custodian action‎; 10:37 . . (+2,923) . . 68.163.103.93 (Talk) (→Custodial disruption intensifying: new section)

But wait, there's even more irony.

All the while that Adam is doing this pell mell deletion of the conversation that James Neill had just requested, what was James Neill doing? Why he was cautiously closing a Deletion Review of Junk Science that had been in process for months. And what was James Neill's conclusion?

QUOTE(James Neill closing a conscientious Deletion Review of Junk Science)
It looks to me like no clear consensus and that the material should be retained for now with the {{fringe}} template. There is some support for tagging the pages for subsequent deletion review down the track but I think any such a system should be raised and discussed separately before implementation. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 10:41, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps they should carefully consider putting the {{fringe}} template on Adam Brookes, too.

This post has been edited by Moulton: Fri 16th July 2010, 12:19am
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Moulton
post Thu 15th July 2010, 12:53pm
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Once more, into the breach...

Full-Width Image

As we have been noting for well over a decade now, a breach of expectations generates liminal social drama. In the absence of a functional dispute resolution process, liminal social drama devolves into lunatic drama.

It's the soap opera that never ends...

QUOTE(Suggestion from James Neill)
Suggestion for communicating with Moulton

Allow logged in editing of User talk:Moulton? I realise that for some people Moulton has gone too far too many times, but I also realise that for other people he hasn't been treated fairly and has important contributions to make. The Moulton account is currently globally and locally blocked such that Moulton can't edit anything. As a result, in order to communicate, he tends to use sockpuppets or anonymous IP which then engage reversion and blocking. An alternative option (if I've understood correctly from others who have looked into it) could be to use WV's capacity (via Bureaucrat actions) to allow Moulton logged in editing of User talk:Moulton. For some people this may seem to be too much to permit such editing access and for others it may be perceived as ongoing, unjustified restriction. However, if dealing with a conflict is going to move towards peace then I think the greatest prospects lie with some shift to middlish ground. Such a change would allow Moulton a place to edit without being reverted purely for block evasion. Then we could concentrate more clearly on listening to Moulton has to say. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 12:06, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Moulton already has already wasted a place to comment where I've been turning a blind eye to his block evasion. That was User talk:Caprice, an interesting experiment but not one I was particularly comfortable about. The attempts to negotiate with him regarding a possible unblock didn't go very well and that account is now fully blocked with talk page use disabled. However, if any such negotiations are to take place then in my view it should be at User talk:Moulton which can be enabled for Moulton to use logged in as that account if that was considered appropriate. My view is that users should in most circumstances only use their talk page when blocked to negotiate an unblock. I don't, for example, want to see as is sometimes done, a running commentary of a blocked users view of current events on the particularly project. So I think the question is whether anyone wishes to try to negotiate with Moulton regarding an unblock, or make a proposal that Moulton is unblocked. It isn't necessarily the case in my view that the community can't consider the appropriateness of an unblock without input from Moulton himself. I think really at the moment the ball is in the court of anyone who wishes to make efforts to get Moulton unblocked. They can consider whether to propose for community discussion an unblock of Moulton and whether they might need to discuss that with Moulton on-wiki. Adambro 12:23, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I'd respond to James and Adam, except that Adam has arranged to cut off all on-wiki communication with me.

What are they teaching young people around the world?
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Moulton
post Thu 15th July 2010, 1:27pm
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Fear and Loathing in Lost Vagueness

"I realise that for some people Moulton has gone too far too many times." --James Neill

14:44, 10 December 2008 MaxSem (talk | contribs) locked global account "User:Moulton@global" ‎ (enough is enough)


It's fascinating that my crime is some vague kind of excess, but the logs never quite get around to saying the name of the moiety of my behavior that they are taking exception to.

Here, for example, is Jimbo Wales' log entry, from when he protected User_talk:Moulton to prevent me from using it to communicate with other scholars at Wikiversity:

QUOTE(Log Entry from Jimbo Wales)
The posted reason for protecting Moulton's Talk Page

Permission error

You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reasons:

This page has been locked to prevent editing.
This title has been protected from creation by Jimbo Wales. The reason given is '.

It's either the Null Reason or the Apostrophe (literally "turning away").

It occurs to me that they are indeed turning away from going forward.

Or maybe it's just too much of nothing.




Peter Paul and Mary - Too Much of Nothing

Too much of nothin' can make a man feel ill at ease
One man's temper might rise, while the other man's temper might freeze.
In the days of long confessions, we can not mock a soul
When there's too much of nothin', no one has control.

(Chorus)
Say hello to Adambro, say hello to carry-on,
Send them all my salary, on the waters of oblivion.

Too much of nothin' can make a man abuse a king
He can walk the streets and boast like most but he don't know a thing.
It's all been done before, it's all been written in the book.
But when it's too much of nothin', nobody should look.

(Chorus)

Too much of nothin' can turn a man into a liar
It can cause some man to sleep on nails, another man to eat fire.
Everybody's doin' somethin', I heard it in a dream
But when it's too much of nothin', it just makes a fella mean.

(Chorus)
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