Palestinians to face 'Wikipedia War' - Ma'an News Agency Options

[The Joy]

There are nearly no Palestinian editors that actively edit in the topic area. Only a small number of Arabs. Hell, there are more Jewish "pro-Palestinian" editors than there are Arab ones.

WIKIPEDIA :

2 Jews, 3 Opinions, 9 Edit-Wars

Are the two Jews actually one person who lives in Great Britain?

[The Adversary]

There are barely any "pro-Palestinian" editors if we define "pro-Palestinian" they way "pro-Israel" is usually defined. Almost nobody pushes a "Palestinian POV". Hell, I don't even try to get the "Palestinian POV" into articles. Certain users, among them newly registered members of this forum, have been incredibly successful in creating this illusion that most of the "battles" in the I-P area are really between the "I POV" and the "P POV". It isnt and never has been. Two examples of this come to mind, "Israeli settlements" vs "towns" and "West Bank" vs "Judea and Samaria".

This is a lie Nableezy and you know it. There is nothing sinister about being "pro-Palestinian." Many editors openly advertise their pro-Palestinian sympathies, including you. That is fine, I am not offended. But don't deny it.

You misunderstand. I dont plan on explaining other than to ask that you read what you respond to more carefully.

I think what Nab writes here is absolutely true: there is hardly any "Palestinian POV" -rather an extreme right-wing Israeli against what the international society recognize.

However, the right-wing pro-Israeli POV-pushing has some unforeseen consequences. I do not know of any "outsider" who has become more pro-Israeli after watching the games in the I/P-area on wp. Not a single one!
And I think more than one has arrived on wp, expecting to contribute to completely different matters, but become so enraged by the bias that they end of differently.

In fact; I think all that organized pro-Israeli editors POV-pushing on wp probably will end up recruiting quite a few "outsiders" as new-born pro-Palestinian activists

[Milton Roe]

There are nearly no Palestinian editors that actively edit in the topic area. Only a small number of Arabs. Hell, there are more Jewish "pro-Palestinian" editors than there are Arab ones.

WIKIPEDIA :

2 Jews, 3 Opinions, 9 Edit-Wars

Are the two Jews actually one person who lives in Great Britain?

Bingo. He goes by many sacred names, though. There's a list! They argued with each other, sometimes. Came down the mountain with orders for each other.

You know, I had seen The Ten Commandments about 10 times before I finally realized that YHWH's voice coming out of the Burning Bush is actually Heston's, too. I think there's kind of a subtle message there.

[Eppur si muove]

However, the right-wing pro-Israeli POV-pushing has some unforeseen consequences. I do not know of any "outsider" who has become more pro-Israeli after watching the games in the I/P-area on wp. Not a single one!
And I think more than one has arrived on wp, expecting to contribute to completely different matters, but become so enraged by the bias that they end of differently.

Not the only one. Even my worst enemy admits that my first edits were to the non-I/P subject of Wieland Wagner. Of course he fails to mention that the effect of my initial edits were to highlight Wieland's connections with Hitler and his role in a satellite of a concentration camp. But Doc Glasgow can tell us all about Appletree's attitude to the truth. Until I encountered him I hadn't been involved in any activist groups about Israel. It's gratifying to know how their deceitful activities are so counter-productive.

This post has been edited by Eppur si muove: Wed 15th September 2010, 12:46am

[SB_Johnny]

In fact; I think all that organized pro-Israeli editors POV-pushing on wp probably will end up recruiting quite a few "outsiders" as new-born pro-Palestinian activists

Bingo. The more I hear and read from the Zionists, the more they make Hamas and co. seem like the ANC. Assuming Wikifan et. al. are actually representative of the "Zionist POV", of course.

[Wikifan]

In fact; I think all that organized pro-Israeli editors POV-pushing on wp probably will end up recruiting quite a few "outsiders" as new-born pro-Palestinian activists

Bingo. The more I hear and read from the Zionists, the more they make Hamas and co. seem like the ANC. Assuming Wikifan et. al. are actually representative of the "Zionist POV", of course.

LOL ANC?

Last I checked Hamas isn't Necklacing Jews or mutilating the genitals of political rivals. More than 20,500 people were killed between 1984-1994 during ANC militancy.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict, at most, has killed, maybe ~18,000 in the last 60 years, excluding Lebanese operations.

BTW, numerous ANC supporters and anti-apartheid activists were Zionists.

SA is still incredibly racist, especially towards immigrants from other African states.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

SA is still incredibly racist, especially towards immigrants from other African states.

South African is not a race, you arsehole. Neither is Zimbabwe, Eritrea, Uganda or any other African state you care to mention.

Let us put aside any question of the ongoing racist ethnic cleansing ... sorry "transfer" ... since the 700,000 Palestinians were forced out the way during the Nakba, is it still true to say that even 'converts to Judaism' are not good enough to immigrate and inter-racial or inter-religious marriage is still not recognised in Israel?

But, speaking of South Africa, The Guardian offered an article earlier this year, "Israel and apartheid: a marriage of convenience and military might Secret documents revealing offer to sell nuclear warheads to South Africa cast fresh light on alliance.

By 1976, the relationship had changed so profoundly that South Africa's prime minister, John Vorster, could not only make a visit to Jerusalem but accompany Israel's two most important leaders, Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres ...

Neither Israeli appears to have been disturbed by the fact that Vorster had been an open supporter of Hitler, a member of South Africa's fascist and violently antisemitic Ossewabrandwag and that he was interned during the war as a Nazi sympathiser.

Rabin hailed Vorster as a force for freedom and at a banquet toasted "the ideals shared by Israel and South Africa: the hopes for justice and peaceful coexistence".

A few months later, the South African government's yearbook described the two countries having one thing in common above all else: "They are both situated in a predominantly hostile world inhabited by dark peoples."

South Africa had the materials Israel required to make nuclear weapons.

After 1976, there was a love affair between the security establishments of the two countries and their armies ... The link was very intimate.

Interestingly, Shimon Peres was central to the relationship. The same Shimon Peres that "leading Wikipedian" David "Goat Piss" Shankbone was funded by the Israeli Consulate to go and meet, and take pictures to tilt the Wikipedia in Israel's favor ... Well, that and introduce the consulate boss Saranga to meet with hard core gay pornographers up on Fire Island it seemed to many. Which came first we are not sure?

All sounds sordid? ... What the Wikipedia?

"In 1974, Peres wrote to the South African information minister, Eschel Rhoodie, speaking of the "unshakeable foundations of our common hatred of injustice and our refusal to submit to it".

Peres helped apartheid South Africa procure weapons when it was under an international embargo.

I hope that one day you will be able to understand how condemning extreme ethnic supremacism is not even "anti-Zionist" but merely part of a larger "anti-any-extreme-ethnic-supremacism", whether in the Balkans, Rwanda, Nazi Germany or Zionist Israel.

Ditto, a distaste for any culture or religion operating at the level of tribalism.

It was Alon Liel, the former Israeli ambassador to SA who said Israel would not have a military industries unless it had had South Africa as its main client from the mid-1970s.

Nazi Apartheid South Africa saved Israel.

[SB_Johnny]

Last I checked Hamas isn't Necklacing Jews or mutilating the genitals of political rivals. More than 20,500 people were killed between 1984-1994 during ANC militancy.

The connection your little bigoted mind isn't making is that the ANC could not find a negotiating partner, because little bigoted minds like yours didn't see their constituency as fully human.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict, at most, has killed, maybe ~18,000 in the last 60 years, excluding Lebanese operations.

That's a lowball estimate, if you include cholera and other diseases related to malnutrition.

BTW, numerous ANC supporters and anti-apartheid activists were Zionists.

I'm sure you're disappointed in them.

SA is still incredibly racist, especially towards immigrants from other African states.

That's nationalism, not (necessarily) racism. The difference is that South Africa doesn't occupy those neighboring countries.

[Emperor]

The connection your little bigoted mind isn't making is that the ANC could not find a negotiating partner, because little bigoted minds like yours didn't see their constituency as fully human.

Posts which make false allegations that other posters have engaged in hate speech, by quoting out of context or similar misrepresentation, are subject to deletion. These are the tactics of slander and propaganda, which will not be tolerated by the Wikipedia Review.

[The Joy]

The connection your little bigoted mind isn't making is that the ANC could not find a negotiating partner, because little bigoted minds like yours didn't see their constituency as fully human.

Posts which make false allegations that other posters have engaged in hate speech, by quoting out of context or similar misrepresentation, are subject to deletion. These are the tactics of slander and propaganda, which will not be tolerated by the Wikipedia Review.

Isn't accusing someone of accusing someone of hate speech in effect against the very rule you quote?

[CharlotteWebb]

Isn't accusing someone of accusing someone of hate speech in effect against the very rule you quote?

It reminds me of this sordid incident, in which the bottom-rate admin Rjd0060 blocked an editor 24 hrs. for using the word "bigot" (in response to being called "black bastard" and "nigger" among other sweet nothings). Rjd later then extended it to 72 hrs. for contempt-of-cop.

[Moulton]

I had seen The Ten Commandments about 10 times before I finally realized that YHWH's voice coming out of the Burning Bush is actually Heston's, too. I think there's kind of a subtle message there.

Loretta LaRoche has a bit where she talks about "The Committee" of voices in our heads whenever we are agonizing over a problematic issue. It makes a lot of sense for the voice who calls upon Moses to get his tochus in gear should sound hauntingly like Moses (but without the speech impediment).

Posts which make false allegations that other posters have engaged in hate speech, by quoting out of context or similar misrepresentation, are subject to deletion. These are the tactics of slander and propaganda, which will not be tolerated by the Wikipedia Review.

Isn't accusing someone of accusing someone of hate speech in effect against the very rule you quote?

Don'tcha just hate it when the Mods egregiously violate their own rules (and then punish the guy whom they violated).

[Emperor]

Isn't accusing someone of accusing someone of hate speech in effect against the very rule you quote?

Just thought I'd throw it out there, since the first instance I quoted the rule someone was literally accusing another poster of hate speech, even using the words "hate speech".

[EricBarbour]

Isn't accusing someone of accusing someone of hate speech in effect against the very rule you quote?

Just thought I'd throw it out there, since the first instance I quoted the rule someone was literally accusing another poster of hate speech, even using the words "hate speech".

[Eppur si muove]

Isn't accusing someone of accusing someone of hate speech in effect against the very rule you quote?

It reminds me of this sordid incident, in which the bottom-rate admin Rjd0060 blocked an editor 24 hrs. for using the word "bigot" (in response to being called "black bastard" and "nigger" among other sweet nothings). Rjd later then extended it to 72 hrs. for contempt-of-cop.

When I trained as a social worker, the first week of the MSc course was taken up with a module on discrimination and anti-discriminatory practice. Just about the first thing said was how a certain type of person does not like the boat being rocked by suggestions of prejudice or other problems in an institution where they work and reacts to defend against them. It being a few years back I'm not absolutely sure whether the people who don't like the boat being rocked were identified as British, middle class or both. However the point is demonstrated in Wikipedia where from Jimbo down there are far too many people who like to act like the primmest of schoolma'ams from the most stereotyped of films and react in a shocked manner when someone dares to use blunt language to describe bigots and other assorted vermin. WP:CIV and WP:NPA are all very well when dealing with good faith contributors but, despite being told otherwise by the Great Leader and his sycophants, I still maintain that WP:IAR wins when it comes to dealing with blatant cases of bad faith. The failure of the likes of Rjd0060, Jimbo and their ilk to consider why people ventilate their anger at assorted trolls and bigots demonstrates an over-estimation of the value of surface civility as compared to digging out the genuinely malicious and disruptive.

This post has been edited by Eppur si muove: Thu 16th September 2010, 12:31pm

[Wikifan]

Let us put aside any question of the ongoing racist ethnic cleansing ... sorry "transfer" ... since the 700,000 Palestinians were forced out the way during the Nakba, is it still true to say that even 'converts to Judaism' are not good enough to immigrate and inter-racial or inter-religious marriage is still not recognised in Israel?

Even assuming this, this is an event that happened more than six decades ago. More than 1,000,000 whites in South Africa left the country following the collapse of the regime, leaving all their property and belongings, after the ANC strong-armed progressive anti-apartheid groups from the negotiations.

So, where is their Nakba?

More than 150,000,000 people were displaced in the aftermath of WWII, including millions of Jews. All have been resettled, except for the Palestinians, who are the only refugees that are granted perpetual refugee status 6 generations on.

The connection your little bigoted mind isn't making is that the ANC could not find a negotiating partner, because little bigoted minds like yours didn't see their constituency as fully human.

Ahhh, did I strike a nerve?

That's a lowball estimate, if you include cholera and other diseases related to malnutrition.

Bleh. Poverty and disease is part of the Arab world. You know what the life expectancy in Palestine prior to 1948? Not that great.

After 1967, Israel eradicated disease and pretty much every other illness that were once endemic under Arab rule. Today Palestinians under occupation enjoy a higher standard of living than most in sovereign Jew-free Arab nations. Of course, I'm not talking about the Palestinians who live in Lebanon, but I guess they don't matter because Israel isn't occupying them.

You do know there is more poverty in Turkey and Egypt than in Gaza, right?

Claims that Israel's war with the Palestinians as anything less than political is dubious. There is nothing inherently racial about Zionism. In fact, Israel is the most racially and ethnically diverse nation in the Middle East. Arab Druze serve willingly in the military and 30% of Israeli Arabs vote for Zionist parties?

Are they racist?

And what about the on-going peace talks that Hamas militant groups are trying to sabotage? I say Israel is willing to accept a Palestinian nation and elements within the Palestinian leadership want one as well, but the extremists have too much control. While radical-progressives claim to love and support the Palestinians and their plight against Israel's iron boot, the reality is Israel is actively cooperating with the Palestinian authority, sharing resources, and pulling out of major Palestinian cities.

Is this part of some Israeli conspiracy I am unaware of?

Oh wait, I must be a bigot.

[Eppur si muove]

Oh wait, I must be a bigot.

If I get round to complaining to mods about bigotry in this thread, then you wouldn't be the first I would pick out. The contribution in large letters by the former user of the Wikia id Jewbo Wales does stand out more.