Out with Godwin, In with the new sycophant Options Rating

[Text]

The copyrightable stuff on wikipedia mainly exists in the talk pages, the trolls, and the vandalisms.

That's correct. And the main reason for a lot of people (the majority, since Awbrey, Kohs, Cool3 and others made of similar material are booted rapidly) to edit is to introduce some kind of funny bullshit which may be equivalent to "trolling", and the whole chemical component is known as "lulz".

[Minor4th]

Hmmmmm....

[Text]

Hmmmmm....

Do you disagree on something that has been said, or are you skeptic of the fact that F bemolle is equivalent to E?

[Minor4th]

Hmmmmm....

Do you disagree on something that has been said, or are you skeptic of the fact that F bemolle is equivalent to E?

Well, I don't have my glasses on so I'm not sure what your post says but I do see that there is a question mark at the end.

I am just reading over the thread again. It's a strange way to fire someone, and there's no question that's what it is. It's hard to put a severance package together in 3 days. My initial thought is that Sue really wants him gone immediately but the Foundation needs Godwin to turn over all of his messes to the new guy so the Foundation's 12MM bank account isnt up for grabs. Sounds to me like they 're paying him to be a consultant, and I bet they're paying him a nice amount because he's probabably pissed enough to walk off and let them drown in their own feces. Maybe a non-disclosure agreement about the circumstances of the termination -- everything else would pretty much be covered by the attorney-client privilege, and he can't disclose it anyway unless it's some sort of whistleblower scenario. I'm interested to see how this one turns out.

I was intrigued by the way Godwin handled the FBI seal inquiry and thought it was incredibly foolish and risky to taunt the Feds with a letter that read like an ANI argument. I mean, doesnt everyone know the Feds are vindictive and they'll find a reason to make life miserable if you get their attention? I don't know if that has anything to do with this termination, but reading between the lines, the comment about Godwin doing what he thought was in WMF's best interest (read, Godwin's judgment sucks) -- that could apply to the way he handled the FBI sitch. There are probably others if that is the way Godwin goes about practicing law..

[SB_Johnny]

I was intrigued by the way Godwin handled the FBI seal inquiry and thought it was incredibly foolish and risky to taunt the Feds with a letter that read like an ANI argument. I mean, doesnt everyone know the Feds are vindictive and they'll find a reason to make life miserable if you get their attention? I don't know if that has anything to do with this termination, but reading between the lines, the comment about Godwin doing what he thought was in WMF's best interest (read, Godwin's judgment sucks) -- that could apply to the way he handled the FBI sitch. There are probably others if that is the way Godwin goes about practicing law..

Indeed. When a lawyer starts sounding like a wikilawyer in "#real_life" situations, he should probably stay away from the bar and/or any keyboard that's connected to a modem.

I hope our resident lawyers won't be tempted to say yes to an inside hire, because that way lies a dead end.

[Milton Roe]

I was intrigued by the way Godwin handled the FBI seal inquiry and thought it was incredibly foolish and risky to taunt the Feds with a letter that read like an ANI argument. I mean, doesnt everyone know the Feds are vindictive and they'll find a reason to make life miserable if you get their attention? I don't know if that has anything to do with this termination, but reading between the lines, the comment about Godwin doing what he thought was in WMF's best interest (read, Godwin's judgment sucks) -- that could apply to the way he handled the FBI sitch. There are probably others if that is the way Godwin goes about practicing law..

Indeed. When a lawyer starts sounding like a wikilawyer in "#real_life" situations, he should probably stay away from the bar and/or any keyboard that's connected to a modem.

I hope our resident lawyers won't be tempted to say yes to an inside hire, because that way lies a dead end.

Our resident lawyers are plenty smart enough to know that.

If the FBI matter was part of it, Godwin was ill-used, since I doubt he did anything without consulting Sue. She probably asked him if the law was on WMF's side and he told her it was, and she then said: "Good, because we don't take down anything we don't absolutely have to." So he asked what he should do, and she probably told him to point out the law to the FBI. Which he did. If there were any repercussions, I imagine them sort of like this:

Sue: "Mike, I hear the FBI is really mad at us, now!"

Godwin: "Well, I don't know why. I just pointed out that the law is aimed at reproducing I.D. cards and such.."

Sue: "But you didn't have to be so condescending while doing it. I know I laughed at the letter before you sent it, but I'm not a lawyer. You're supposed to be wiser in these matters. Now they'll think that being snide, is insulting to them personally."

Godwin: "It's not. Lawyers do this all the time and don't take it personally. At the FBI they're big boys and can tell the difference between making fun of an idea and making fun of the people who believe the idea..."

Sue: "You don't know your history! Do you know Galileo attacked the ideas of some high-up Roman Catholic Church people, and they held that he was attacking the church itself?"

Godwin: "What do I care what the Catholic Church did?"

Sue: "The Catholic Church speaks for the views of God Almighty. So obviously God thinks this way, too."

Godwin: "Er, you know I'm Jewish, don't you?"

Sue: "Speaking of which! If your people weren't always making snarky and legalistic arguments to put people down, maybe a lot fewer of them would have wound up in prison camps. Ever thought of that?"

Godwin. "Oy, I saw this coming..."

[Jon Awbrey]

I was intrigued by the way Godwin handled the FBI seal inquiry and thought it was incredibly foolish and risky to taunt the Feds with a letter that read like an ANI argument. I mean, doesnt everyone know the Feds are vindictive and they'll find a reason to make life miserable if you get their attention? I don't know if that has anything to do with this termination, but reading between the lines, the comment about Godwin doing what he thought was in WMF's best interest (read, Godwin's judgment sucks) — that could apply to the way he handled the FBI sitch. There are probably others if that is the way Godwin goes about practicing law …

Indeed. When a lawyer starts sounding like a wikilawyer in "#real_life" situations, he should probably stay away from the bar and/or any keyboard that's connected to a modem.

I hope our resident lawyers won't be tempted to say yes to an inside hire, because that way lies a dead end.

Our resident lawyers are plenty smart enough to know that.

If the FBI matter was part of it, Godwin was ill-used, since I doubt he did anything without consulting Sue. She probably asked him if the law was on WMF's side and he told her it was, and she then said: "Good, because we don't take down anything we don't absolutely have to." So he asked what he should do, and she probably told him to point out the law to the FBI. Which he did. If there were any repercussions, I imagine them sort of like this:

Sue: "Mike, I hear the FBI is really mad at us, now!"

Godwin: "Well, I don't know why. I just pointed out that the law is aimed at reproducing I.D. cards and such.."

Sue: "But you didn't have to be so condescending while doing it. I know I laughed at the letter before you sent it, but I'm not a lawyer. You're supposed to be wiser in these matters. Now they'll think that being snide, is insulting to them personally."

Godwin: "It's not. Lawyers do this all the time and don't take it personally. At the FBI they're big boys and can tell the difference between making fun of an idea and making fun of the people who believe the idea..."

Sue: "You don't know your history! Do you know Galileo attacked the ideas of some high-up Roman Catholic Church people, and they held that he was attacking the church itself?"

Godwin: "What do I care what the Catholic Church did?"

Sue: "The Catholic Church speaks for the views of God Almighty. So obviously God thinks this way, too."

Godwin: "Er, you know I'm Jewish, don't you?"

Sue: "Speaking of which! If your people weren't always making snarky and legalistic arguments to put people down, maybe a lot fewer of them would have wound up in prison camps. Ever thought of that?"

Godwin. "Oy, I saw this coming …"

Ω∂! — It's like I was there in the room !!!

Jon

[Minor4th]

[
Our resident lawyers are plenty smart enough to know that.

If the FBI matter was part of it, Godwin was ill-used, since I doubt he did anything without consulting Sue. She probably asked him if the law was on WMF's side and he told her it was, and she then said: "Good, because we don't take down anything we don't absolutely have to." So he asked what he should do, and she probably told him to point out the law to the FBI. Which he did. If there were any repercussions, I imagine them sort of like this:
<snip>

But the thing is Godwin got the law wrong, and he was wrong in such an unprofessional, arrogant, ridiculous sounding piece of bravado -- so that makes his wrong-ness monumental and spectacular

If Sue has the bad judgment to think Godwin can school the FBI on the law, then she deserves to reap whatever Godwin has sown.

[Subtle Bee]

But the thing is Godwin got the law wrong, and he was wrong in such an unprofessional, arrogant, ridiculous sounding piece of bravado -- so that makes his wrong-ness monumental and spectacular

If Sue has the bad judgment to think Godwin can school the FBI on the law, then she deserves to reap whatever Godwin has sown.

Sure, deserves. Lots of people deserve things. But going with this plausible theory, she now realizes she was wrong, and this would help explain the mutual interest in shutting up about circumstances. I think the "tell" will be in their reaction to the next similar controversy - something someone might consider helping happen, at the appropriate time.

[thekohser]

And wouldn't you know it, the Examiner is the first to break this news story.

And, Examiner getting a bit of credit from other media sources:

As first noted by examiner.com, in terms of questions about the financial consequences of Godwin's severance, Gardner had another cryptic answer at the ready (when you consider that the majority of Wikimedia's pay numbers are disclosed publicly each year in a detailed Form 990 filed with the IRS):

The terms of the severance are confidential: we won’t talk about them now, or in the future.

[CharlotteWebb]

Let's all wish Mr. Godwin a happy birthday. He turns 54 today.

[SB_Johnny]

Let's all wish Mr. Godwin a happy birthday. He turns 54 today.

Happy birthday, Mike. I guess there's no present we could get that could even come close to Sue's.

And wouldn't you know it, the Examiner is the first to break this news story.

And, Examiner getting a bit of credit from other media sources:

Color me impressed! Greg Kohs the mainstream journalist... who'da thunk it?

[Milton Roe]

Let's all wish Mr. Godwin a happy birthday. He turns 54 today.

Happy 54th birthday, Godwin. Hitler made it to 56!

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

Can anyone confirm that the pay off came directly from Jimbo, and not the Wikimedia Foundation, so that it wont appear on the books ... and hence the NDA ?

I mean, I have no idea if the guy is a gentleman but he does know a whole load of shit about Wales and the operation.

[thekohser]

Can anyone confirm that the pay off came directly from Jimbo, and not the Wikimedia Foundation, so that it wont appear on the books ... and hence the NDA ?

I mean, I have no idea if the guy is a gentleman but he does know a whole load of shit about Wales and the operation.

If you think Jimbo would pay off someone out of his OWN POCKET, unless it was a bribe to keep quiet about something illegal that Jimbo had done, then you might as well call for a pig-flying festival tomorrow, too.

[Kevin]

Can anyone confirm that the pay off came directly from Jimbo, and not the Wikimedia Foundation, so that it wont appear on the books ... and hence the NDA ?

I mean, I have no idea if the guy is a gentleman but he does know a whole load of shit about Wales and the operation.

If you think Jimbo would pay off someone out of his OWN POCKET, unless it was a bribe to keep quiet about something illegal that Jimbo had done, then you might as well call for a pig-flying festival tomorrow, too.

You were saying...

2010 Flyin' Pig BBQ & Music Festival

[Somey]

You were saying...

2010 Flyin' Pig BBQ & Music Festival

Oh come on - that was like two weeks ago.

And where does this notion of Jimbo "paying off" Godwin himself come from? It might be necessary to strike that one - it's one thing to accuse Jimbo of malfeasance, it's another to accuse Jimbo of malfeasance that doesn't even advance his personal interests.

Long story short, I think the basic reason for easing Godwin out of the WMF is that he's too visible. Sue and Erik don't like competition any more than Jimbo does, and they all know that virtually nothing they do can hold up under any sort of public scrutiny whatsoever. They want the attention focused on them, personally, not on what the WMF actually does, most of which is indefensible. Having Godwin around was probably a major impediment to achieving that ideal situation.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

Sue and Erik don't like competition any more than Jimbo does, and they all know that virtually nothing they do can hold up under any sort of public scrutiny whatsoever.

Therefore you are saying that Godwin was the good guy and they want a new counsel who is impressed and beholden to them? "Their Team"?

My source ... it could have just been someone's speculative gossip as to what the terms of the NDA was for all I know which is why I passed it by the experts.

My feeling is that a legal counsel seek further employment is not likely to spill dirt, we might have to wait a long time before he writes his mémoires of the inner workings of Wiki Towers.

This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy: Wed 27th October 2010, 3:26pm

[MZMcBride]

They want the attention focused on them, personally, not on what the WMF actually does, most of which is indefensible.

Using "indefensible" here is indefensible.

[SB_Johnny]

Can anyone confirm that the pay off came directly from Jimbo, and not the Wikimedia Foundation, so that it wont appear on the books ... and hence the NDA ?

I mean, I have no idea if the guy is a gentleman but he does know a whole load of shit about Wales and the operation.

As Minor 4th pointed out earlier, his hands are tied on the actual legal stuff due to attorney-client privileges. OTOH, he probably knows all sorts of gossip they'd rather not have people know about.