Fred Bauder, I like black people but ... Options

[tarantino]

In response to the question "Why American Wikimedian community is exclusively white?" on the mailing list, Fred says:

The short answer: Wikipedia editors are volunteers and African-Americans
rarely volunteer.

The medium answer: African-American editors often edit only articles
which relate to African-American and do that in a point of view way.

The long answer: large blocks of African-American are oppressed,
unemployed, poorly educated, and computer illiterate. Those that are
educated and prosperous tend to be too busy, and as said, are not in the
habit of volunteering.

"Wow. Maybe you can follow Phoebe's example and cite some evidence?"

A reaction like this is expected to any honest straightforward
observation that is not politically correct. I lived in the Five Points
neighborhood of Denver for yeara. I like Black people, but there are
issues.

[Abd]

A reaction like this is expected to any honest straightforward observation that is not politically correct. I lived in the Five Points
neighborhood of Denver for yeara. I like Black people, but there are issues.

Someone from the Foundation should grab this guy with a shepherd's hook and pull him off the stage before he sticks his foot deeper into his mouth.

It's not about "politically correct." It is about blatant racism. "Black people," plainly considered as if they were alike, a unit, so that one will have the same feelings about all. Or even most.

And as if his experience with people in one neighborhood says much of anything about a people in general, and as if race were a reality, anyway.

The question was a tough one, in fact, and it would have been far smarter to say "I don't know, we should really look into that," or maybe "I have no way of telling if an editor is black or not," or anything that didn't reveal the utter stupidity lurking under the placid surface. On the other hand, I suppose we can be grateful that he was frank. Or Fred, as the case is.

I like black people too. Especially my daughter. When I was young, it was a common question, "Would you want your daughter to marry one of them?" People actually felt free to ask that. Times have changed, but racism still lurks underneath. I did not imagine, however, that one day, I'd have a double answer to give.

"My daughter is one of 'them, as you might think if you see her, but she is unlike anyone you know." As is, in fact, every individual, especially if we are talking about the social convention/illusion that is race.

And

"Well, if he's a nice guy...." (And I have two "white" daughters and one born in China.)

Or, today, it might be woman, I suppose. Times have, indeed, changed. Good thing, too. Fred, wake up, your old road is rapidly fadin'.

On the other hand, people with red hair....

[A Horse With No Name]

(And I have two "white" daughters and one born in China.)

Hmmm...this part of the conversation deserves further consideration. Can we get some photos, please?

(I.e., "black" is a cultural identity, strongly associated with cultural background in some contexts, such as American society, and very sloppily.

Well, there are also "black people" in Europe, the Caribbean, Latin America, Africa and Australia. Is Fred talking about African Americans, or every demographic in the African diaspora?

[Abd]

(And I have two "white" daughters and one born in China.)

Hmmm...this part of the conversation deserves further consideration. Can we get some photos, please?

They are seven and nine years old, respectively. I'd love to put up photos, but ... times have changed. Sorry. They are, however, spectacularly beautiful, people rave over them. Smart, talented, etc., etc. Kind and considerate, and the Ethiopian smiles like the sunrise, something that she did inherit from her people, I visited the region, and she was raised by them for her first three years.

Can you tell that I'm a proud papa?

The Asian girl was raised by me from 10 months old, so the African may have gotten the better deal.... but, well, you win some and lose some. There are some advantages both ways.

Ah. I have two other daughters. Adults, ages 40 and 35. One is very happily married, the younger one just came back from India, she's divorced. Good luck. I will not provide any details at all about my grandchildren, except that there are five going on six. I am "exposed" to the possibility of great granchildren, but probably not quite yet!

(I.e., "black" is a cultural identity, strongly associated with cultural background in some contexts, such as American society, and very sloppily.

Well, there are also "black people" in Europe, the Caribbean, Latin America, Africa and Australia. Is Fred talking about African Americans, or every demographic in the African diaspora?

figuring out what Bauder is talking about is not a fruitful enterprise, since I think he has not really thought about all this. The tipoff is his continual reference to "black people" as if they were some monolithic entity. At worst. At best, he qualifies it a little, i.e., "those who harm themselves by thinking of reading as 'white.'" (something like that.)

It is still stereotypical thinking. There can be some value to that, but what Bauder is betraying is his underlying attitudes. Example: his assumption that successful blacks are not inclined to volunteer. The reality is that they do, (using demographic definitions of "black") but they volunteer elsewhere, on average.

This whole "don't volunteer" argument was completely bogus, as shown by the statistics. The ratio, even with what may understate some kinds of volunteer work, was 28% for "white" and 20% for "black." So ... that could not explain the vast under-representation of apparent black participation.

However, there is another assumption that some are making: that participation in wikiconferences is a cross-section of Wikipedia editors. It may be highly warped. Otherwise, how the hell do we know what racial grouping editors belong to? You know my "race" only because I've disclosed it, it's common that it is assumed that I'm black -- Lomax is not an uncommon black family name in the U.S. -- or that I'm Muslim by birth -- which would not say anything about "race," since Muslims could be Asian, Arab, Bosnian, etcl, or Nigerian, etc.

The explanations will be cultural, I'm sure, and have to do with Wikipedia and wikicultural qualities, similarly to the greatly reduced numbers of women who participate.

It would be highly advisable for Bauder to apologize, for the WMF to distance themselves from those remarks. They don't have to crucify him. Unless he refuses to apologize.

This will go over great in India.

This post has been edited by Abd: Thu 18th November 2010, 7:23pm

[Eva Destruction]

However, there is another assumption that some are making: that participation in wikiconferences is a cross-section of Wikipedia editors. It may be highly warped.

I imagine these lovely specimens are a representative cross-section of Wikipedia, and do show a higher proportion of white editors than would be expected, even allowing for disproportionate numbers of editors from Britain and Ireland (both with a population about 95% white). The only high-profile Wikipedia editor I can think of who self-identifies as African-American is TonyTheTiger (T-C-L-K-R-D) . There are systemic reasons black editors are unlikely to identify as such on Wikipedia—ED generally targets them until they resign in disgust—but there are still startlingly few.