FT2 back in the ArbCom race, with lots to say about the happenings of 2008 Options

[Alison]

Heyyaz,

Looks like FT2 has put his name forward again. And he's got quite a lot of interesting things to say, including more on PoetHorde, certain alternate accounts and more on stuff that happened behind the scenes back in 2008.

Edit: And including about those 'oversighted edits' and the OrangeMarlin affair.

[Theanima]

...aaaand out.

[Zoloft]

...aaaand out.

I do believe a daily dose of ginkgo biloba is prescribed for cases like these.

[TungstenCarbide]

...aaaand out.

I do believe a daily dose of ginkgo biloba is prescribed for cases like these.

is it just me, or does anyone else's eyes glaze over trying to read FT2's drivel?

[dogbiscuit]

...aaaand out.

I do believe a daily dose of ginkgo biloba is prescribed for cases like these.

is it just me, or does anyone else's eyes glaze over trying to read FT2's drivel?

Brief version: I'm screwed.

Longer version, I've spent so long bullshitting about this, I've come to believe my own drivel.

It actually reflects badly on the rest of those involved, some of whom must have been aware of FT2 being misleading and have previously decided to keep quiet.

[Doc glasgow]

It actually reflects badly on the rest of those involved, some of whom must have been aware of FT2 being misleading and have previously decided to keep quiet.

Other possibility, arbcom and most of the community have been at tl;dr with this since the beginning.

I vaguely remember reading a lot of the public stuff at the time, being involved in some of the conversations, and following threads here and on wikipedia since, and I truly have no idea what the hell it was all about:

something to do with fetish edits, oversight and David Gerard and after that I lose the plot entirely.

Where Peter, John Van, and FT2's timezone fits in beats me.

I'm reminded of Palmerston's remarks on the Schleswig-Holstein Question

"Only three people have ever really understood the Schleswig-Holstein business—the Prince Consort, who is dead—a German professor, who has gone mad—and I, who have forgotten all about it."

And in the end, aside from Peter, who cares?

[Peter Damian]

And in the end, aside from Peter, who cares?

Who cares about a pack of lies, after all? Note that Doc was in on the Dec 22 IRC chat, and thus was one of those who knew from the beginning.

Rough timeline.

Dec 2007-April 2008 - FT2, Gerard + 1 other admin (possibly Doc?) + Scribe, + Cary Bass and Jimbo knew. Thatcher also knew from observing the edits disappear, but as far as I know was not involved in the email exchanges.

This was kept pretty well secret until April 2008, when Arbcom got to hear about it. There was then a wider conspiracy to keep the whole thing secret. Part of this was offering me a lift on the ban, which with hindsight I should never have accepted.

In July 2008, FT2 said he had never heard of such a thing happening.

In November 2008, Giano finally revealed what had happened (I don't know how he found out), saying publicly. “Over the last year I have known [about the edits], but been unable to prove it, I have been stonewalled wherever I turned and found myself unable to trust anybody. FT2 and Gerard were untouchable and had me blocked at every opportunity. … A week or so ago I obtained positive proof that Gerard had indeed tampered with FT2's edits during the election with an invalid oversight reason outside of policy, especially as they pertained to a subject about which FT2 was being questioned during his campaign for Arbcom. So basically Gerard and FT2 are disgraced and and FT2 is an Arb by fraud. "

People like Doc immediately were saying 'what's so interesting about that, everyone knows about that' and so on. Like they hadn't been conspiring for months to cover it up.

From November to January 2009, FT2 persistently stonewalled questions about why he said he knew nothing (and denied again in November) about the oversighting.

Finally in January he was blocked by Bishonen, there was an RfC, and FT2 had to resign.

To those like Doc who say 'who cares', I say 'yes, but if it is that trivial, why cover it up'. It's the official lying after the event, and the conspiracy to cover it up, that we should care about.

The oversighted edits were in themselves quite trivial. It's the three years of banning and blocking and persistent lying and resignations that are significant.

[Doc glasgow]

And in the end, aside from Peter, who cares?

Who cares about a pack of lies, after all? Note that Doc was in on the Dec 22 IRC chat, and thus was one of those who knew from the beginning.

Rough timeline.

Dec 2007-April 2008 - FT2, Gerard + 1 other admin (possibly Doc?) + Scribe, + Cary Bass and Jimbo knew. Thatcher also knew from observing the edits disappear, but as far as I know was not involved in the email exchanges.

This was kept pretty well secret until April 2008, when Arbcom got to hear about it. There was then a wider conspiracy to keep the whole thing secret. Part of this was offering me a lift on the ban, which with hindsight I should never have accepted.

In July 2008, FT2 said he had never heard of such a thing happening.

In November 2008, Giano finally revealed what had happened (I don't know how he found out), saying publicly. “Over the last year I have known [about the edits], but been unable to prove it, I have been stonewalled wherever I turned and found myself unable to trust anybody. FT2 and Gerard were untouchable and had me blocked at every opportunity. … A week or so ago I obtained positive proof that Gerard had indeed tampered with FT2's edits during the election with an invalid oversight reason outside of policy, especially as they pertained to a subject about which FT2 was being questioned during his campaign for Arbcom. So basically Gerard and FT2 are disgraced and and FT2 is an Arb by fraud. "

People like Doc immediately were saying 'what's so interesting about that, everyone knows about that' and so on. Like they hadn't been conspiring for months to cover it up.

From November to January 2009, FT2 persistently stonewalled questions about why he said he knew nothing (and denied again in November) about the oversighting.

Finally in January he was blocked by Bishonen, there was an RfC, and FT2 had to resign.

To those like Doc who say 'who cares', I say 'yes, but if it is that trivial, why cover it up'. It's the official lying after the event, and the conspiracy to cover it up, that we should care about.

The oversighted edits were in themselves quite trivial. It's the three years of banning and blocking and persistent lying and resignations that are significant.

What paranoid nonsense.

I knew nothing, took no interest, and still don't follow the ins and out of all of this. It strikes me as pure obscurantism.

From what I gather, some edits were irregularly oversighted, in somewhat unclear circumstances. It's a bit muddy as to whether FT2 was involved in this or not - and he's evidently been less than forthcoming on the point, which is enough "smoke" that with or without the fire, I certainly didn't support his return to arbcom.

Beyond that, I think the issue has been that those semi-involved haven't looked too closely at it, and by the time they did, others, who cared all too passionately about it, had convinced themselves that there was some vast wiki-wide conspiracy. I suspect all there actually is is a somewhat embarrassed FT2 digging himself deeper into a hole.

So, he's in a hole. Whether there's fire behind the smoke, I've no idea: but the smoke will be enough to keep him off arbcom, and beyond that nothing really matters.

Indeed, had FT2 had the wisdom not to presented himself as an arbcom candidate, who would care? Maybe he lied - well, so what? What difference does it make now?

[Peter Damian]

What paranoid nonsense.

As I said, you are on record as discussing it with FT2 on Dec 22, so don't accuse me of being paranoid. As to FT2's involvement, Gerard publicly said that FT2 approached him to make the oversights, that and that he confirmed this back to FT2 on December 8.

Jimbo further emailed FT2 on December 11 to ask why the oversights had been made. This was the email that FT2 'found' on Dec 9th the next year. He says “in an unrelated search related to the RFAR case, I found an old email from Jimbo to myself. It was written during the election a year before in 2007 and stated that edits had been oversighted by mistake but this was going to be reversed.” He says he 'forgot' about this email, and also 'forgot' asking Gerard (and Scribe, we now know) to make the oversights.

Of course the original events were trivial. It's everything that happened afterwards. Plus the denial from people like you. You deny anything happened, and lie through your teeth persistently. And as soon as the truth comes out, you say either that you knew it all along, that it was trivial. Or that you hadn't really been following it.

And as for you not really following it, here you are all over Giano's page, talking about it and denying it. You are Scott MacDonald, yes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...ords_from_Giano

Indeed, had FT2 had the wisdom not to presented himself as an arbcom candidate, who would care? Maybe he lied - well, so what? What difference does it make now?

What difference does official lying and cover-up make, after the event? You tell me.

Giano, this is old news and thoroughly boring except to the chattering classes at wikipedia review. Really, using this insane conspiracy theory paranoia as a smokescreen to distract from the quite reasonable request for a little more civility ill becomes you. So, FT2 has some strange interests which might disturb more conservative wikipedians? Guess what? I don't care. I'd probably not want to socialise with him, but that's my attitude to most wikipedians. I stopped caring about the wikisoap opera a long time ago. And as I've said elsewhere, you are bright, literate and amusing - why, oh, why, do you insist on the paranoid wacky act, and focusing on triviality that doesn't matter. You are capable of so much better.--Scott MacDonald (talk) 19:38, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

As I say, when a conspiracy is unmasked, there are those who disclaim all knowledge, and there are those who say 'this is old news and thoroughly boring'.

[Dec 22] <Doc_glasgow> gosh, first we have Tony_Sidaway in here, now we have lar , and then there's FT2 and whatever the hell wikipedia reviewis accusing him of doing/being - we are in for some low talk
IRC Admins log

This post has been edited by Peter Damian: Sun 5th December 2010, 4:20pm