MickMacNee Options

[Abd]

I see some cunt has deleted Mick's finale. It's been partially restored, but in case it bites the dust completely, here it is in all its glory - Enjoy!

Wish ya hadn't left. Now this project is gonna become more stale. GoodDay (talk) 00:22, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
[...Mick's passionate rant...]

I'm a bloody half wit? You're the one who's getting banned, not I. GoodDay (talk) 10:09, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

You do realise that GoodDay outsmarted him with an almost-single won-liner?

He who laughs last laughs best. Mick, if you read this, welcome to the real world, you've been living in a fantasy-land, but you've been broken out, partly through your courage and honesty. It's GoodDay who's left behind, pity him! You were a bit abrupt with him, though! The guy, after all, was saying that your departure was a loss.

Jimbo's response. All that passionate outpouring from Mick and that's all he can say? "Unpleasant"?

While I can't think of a time when Wales actually expressed any compassion for those who have been pushed under the bus on Wikipedia, come to think of it, somehow I find this more disappointing than any other comment of his that I can remember. Somehow I expect something more ... thoughtful, something that might reflect that he has not, himself, wasted the last decade in his pursuit of being human.

Mick said that he trusted ArbComm. I did the same, in fact. I'd been fooled by the facade, as had he. If ArbComm had been open and straight about RfAr/Abd and JzG, if they had expressed their true position, I'd have known, at least, was was coming down the track in RfAr/Abd-William M. Connolley. I would not have wasted my time trying to present evidence and rational argument.

ArbComm is not the operating core of Wikipedia, outwardly. But I imagined that it was exercising some level of restraint on the core. Nope. It only does so when it's completely unavoidable. Otherwise, it's identified with the core, and gives not a fig about the overall community, which it does not trust. That's why it lies to them.

Individual arbitrators are sometimes exceptions to this, but they are overwhelmed by the majority, which, with time, they tend to resemble more and more. It's inevitable, we become the company we keep.

[ComeGetMe]

Mick was always going to be banned, because wikipedia is a collaborative project and Mick was uncollaborative.

Well, Doc, there it is. Wikipedia, the collaborative project. If you are not collaborative, you will be banned. We only work with people who collaborate.

.
.

It is is common for Wikipedia to ban people who are perfectly capable of collaboration, based on this trope. Give these people conditions for collaboration, give them clear guidance -- which may include carrot and stick, but with respect -- they will collaborate.

Tourettes Mick? Good riddance to an unpleasant self-righteous child. You think he can collaborate and wasn't given a chance? Dead wrong. He doesn't give a shit for collaboration, he just wants to cover your wikiFace with his spittle of righteousness. And I don't buy into this "another dissenter punished for putting it up to the man" bullshit. If this is the Bar and Grill, then Mick is the shouty skinhead telling everyone how to shoot pool properly. Fuck off.

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Mick's really going to town now!

One of his respected admins wants to close him down sharpish but all the admins seem to be out enjoying the sun. Oh sorry, this is international - it's warm and sunny where I am, but you could be somewhere in the middle of the night where it's cold enough to freeze your bollocks off. I was forgetting, like the majority of tossers on Wikipedia do - global perspective and all that, but I digress. I wish Mick would stroll over to HighKing's page and dump a load of shit there - come on Mick, I know you're reading this, so go for it!

[TheKartingWikipedian]

I see they've fucked him off competely now. Full protection on the Talk page. How bloody childish of the vultures who've been hovering all day.

[Doc glasgow]

I see they've fucked him off competely now. Full protection on the Talk page. How bloody childish of the vultures who've been hovering all day.

Maybe you'd rather a bit more cockfighting for your own personal amusement.

I unblocked Mick six months ago, the purpose was to see if he and Wikipedia could work out a way of working together. That's evidently failed now. Keeping the dialogue going is simply using Mick as sport for the entertainment of trolls like you - just in the same way you are cheering him on from your peanut gallery to bite back. Wikipedia isn't for cock fighting, and Mick doesn't deserve you treating him like one

Now, go back under the rock you climbed from.

This post has been edited by Doc glasgow: Sat 30th July 2011, 8:09pm

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Now, go back under the rock you climbed from.

There's no space left. It's all taken up by admins and other 'Wiki managers'.

[-DS-]

And about time too.

[Milton Roe]

I see they've fucked him off competely now. Full protection on the Talk page. How bloody childish of the vultures who've been hovering all day.

Maybe you'd rather a bit more cockfighting for your own personal amusement.

I unblocked Mick six months ago, the purpose was to see if he and Wikipedia could work out a way of working together. That's evidently failed now. Keeping the dialogue going is simply using Mick as sport for the entertainment of trolls like you - just in the same way you are cheering him on from your peanut gallery to bite back. Wikipedia isn't for cock fighting, and Mick doesn't deserve you treating him like one

Now, go back under the rock you climbed from.

Gads, what makes you think Karting isn't Mick? It's certainly the simple hypothesis.

[Abd]

I unblocked Mick six months ago, the purpose was to see if he and Wikipedia could work out a way of working together. That's evidently failed now. Keeping the dialogue going is simply using Mick as sport for the entertainment of trolls like you - just in the same way you are cheering him on from your peanut gallery to bite back. Wikipedia isn't for cock fighting, and Mick doesn't deserve you treating him like one

I appreciate Doc's intention in that unblock. However, this is typical Wikipedia wishful thinking. It fails, because nobody sticks around and makes it work. It is assumed that a user who has had difficulty working with the community (or who may have been harassed, and it can be impossible to disentangle who did what and who did it first) will magically change if "given another chance." This will only work rarely.

And Wikipedia generally is not interested in what will work.

As to the rest of it, I agree about cock fighting. I appreciate Mick's passionate expression of his anger and disappointment, but it's also legitimate to shut it down. I don't know if Mick has an account here, but he can certainly be invited.

And there is Wikiversity. Hey, Mick! Do you know that there is a place where you could build resources, and structure, and clean things up to your heart's content? Yeah, you'll have to respect the rights of others, but TANSTAAFL. You won't be harassed there, people will work with you. At least I will!

To get yourself blocked on Wikiversity, you'd have to work really, really hard. There are no scarce resources, i.e., one page per topic, to fight over there. We can have many pages on a topic. If you want to fight, well, Wikiversity won't be for you. But if you do want to actually work together (or alone) to build things, the original wiki vision, Wikiversity is the place where that can happen. Wikiversity resources can be attached to Wikiversity articles, it's a way to vastly extend what's possible. Some Wikiversity pages can even be "owned," properly done.

WV has been called the Island of Banned Users, by those with narrow vision, who think of Wikipedia as the Center of the Universe. That's a trap. Wikiversity is, potentially, to Wikipedia, as a university is to an encyclopedia. Yeah, an encyclopedia is an interesting thing, but you wouldn't go to an encyclopedia to really learn about a topic deeply. Which is larger, in the end, an encyclopedia or a university and its library of resources?

That vision has only been implemented to a small degree. It's new, and opportunities abound. Come and join us! Experienced editors can really help. I hope some WR'ers will be inspired to take a look around Wikiversity. Just, please, realize that we aren't Wikipedia, we are highly inclusive, as is common in academia. Our traditions of academic freedom are strong. Yes, there are limits, and some have pushed beyond limits. All three global bans that I know of were in some way related to Wikiversity.

But my study of self-reversion, which included the record of my socking on Wikipedia and the community's response, was just determined a Keep at Wikiversity Requests for deletion. There were no personal attacks on that page, and it wasn't being used to "organize" disruption, merely to document what had already happened and how the community was responding, which is rarely done. The analysis hasn't been done yet, but the documentation has already generated some useful changes at Wikipedia, and more might come.

There is no other place in the WMF family of wikis where this kind of thing would be appropriate, even if done properly. Wiki studies. And how we could possibly reform the wikis without studying how they operate is completely beyond me. Completely hopeless, it would be.

It's not hopeless.

[Milton Roe]

[And there is Wikiversity. Hey, Mick! Do you know that there is a place where you could build resources, and structure, and clean things up to your heart's content? Yeah, you'll have to respect the rights of others, but TANSTAAFL. You won't be harassed there, people will work with you. At least I will!

heh.

When they asked the warden about the cause of the Attica riots, he said: "It's the class of prisoner we get here."

Good luck with that, Abd.

[Abd]

When they asked the warden about the cause of the Attica riots, he said: "It's the class of prisoner we get here."

Good luck with that, Abd.

That, of course, was the excuse of the warden for failing in his job. Attica led to prison reforms.

Milton, I was a prison chaplain, at San Quentin State Prison. It wasn't common, but I did see a guard abusing an inmate. Gratuitous harassment. I asked the prisoner if he wanted me to do something about it. "No, don't worry. He won't last long." In prisons like that, much of the prison is run by the prisoners, and that's exactly the way it should be. They don't want riots, any more than the guards do.

That particular inmate, I was told when I started, by the full-time chaplain, if he asked me to do something, do it, because he's reliable. It was actually insane that this guy was still in prison, it was just the system, the governor had decided nobody gets parole. Period. Politics.

A few other prisoners I wouldn't have wanted to be alone with. But it's pretty safe in there. After all, everywhere there were catwalks where everything could be seen, by guards with automatic weapons. There were plenty of places in San Francisco and other nearby places where I'd have been far less safe.

Besides, the inmates were thrilled that I was there. I was providing programs they wanted. Otherwise they'd be locked up. The only general danger would have been from racist inmates who might be upset that a white guy was helping blacks, being Muslim. Nobody ever even looked askance at me. And I did talk with those white inmates, that, in fact, was the personal obstacle I overcame there. I remember walking the cell block, and realizing that I had no trouble talking to any of the black inmates, but I noticed I was tempted to skip the cell with the huge white guy with tattoos all over him, looking like he really belonged on a motorcycle with a Hell's Angels jacket, ready to rumble. So I stopped and talked. Nice guy.

I learned a lot in San Quentin. So did the Saudi prince who was there for a while, over a little problem with a hotel bill. (Do not skip out on a $50,000 hotel bill. Bad Idea, no matter how bad the service might have been. Felony in California.) I asked him. Yup. He'd learned the same thing I had.

If anyone comes to Wikiversity and tramples on the community, tears up the place, tries to ban their enemies, they'll be history quickly. But it almost never happens. Nobody is really banned there. We have some blocked users, most notably JWSchmidt. He could be unblocked in a flash if he wanted. My sense is that he'd rather be a martyr. I'm not quite sure what for. Moulton is blocked. That actually took a couple of weeks of disruption, but the only reason it took so long was SBJ intransigence. He just couldn't believe that Moulton had lied to him, I think. If he'd paid attention, or, alternatively, he just kept his fingers off the situation, it would have been over much more quickly with much less disruption.

SBJ isn't so bad, either. He's just a little confused sometimes.

[Herschelkrustofsky]

I do believe he has a grievance or two.

Agreed, I think he might be upset about something. Still hasn't learned where the period or enter keys are on his keyboard, though.

Abd, there's a lesson here for you. I love a good rant, but brevity is the soul, yadda yadda yadda

[radek]

I do believe he has a grievance or two.

Agreed, I think he might be upset about something. Still hasn't learned where the period or enter keys are on his keyboard, though.

Abd, there's a lesson here for you. I love a good rant, but brevity is the soul, yadda yadda yadda

You got to admit though, as far as angry rants go - and I've seen some pathetic ones in my time - this one's (MMN not Abd) pretty high up there. It's like the Zidane headbutt; it does your cause no good and gets you kicked off the field but man, you got to admire the execution, even if you don't care about either team.

I have no comment or any idea as to whatever "substance" might actually be involved here.

[Milton Roe]

I learned a lot in San Quentin. So did the Saudi prince who was there for a while, over a little problem with a hotel bill. (Do not skip out on a $50,000 hotel bill. Bad Idea, no matter how bad the service might have been. Felony in California.) I asked him. Yup. He'd learned the same thing I had.

Which was what? You didn't say specifically, but I suspect it has to do with respecting other people, from high to low, from president to prisoner, unless they personally, by their behavior, give you very good reason not to. Something that Saudi princes would naturally be expected to have problems with.

Was that it? This post was one of your better ones. I could tell, because I read every word and didn't quit before the end...

[Abd]

I learned a lot in San Quentin. So did the Saudi prince who was there for a while, over a little problem with a hotel bill. (Do not skip out on a $50,000 hotel bill. Bad Idea, no matter how bad the service might have been. Felony in California.) I asked him. Yup. He'd learned the same thing I had.

Which was what? You didn't say specifically, but I suspect it has to do with respecting other people, from high to low, from president to prisoner, unless they personally, by their behavior, give you very good reason not to. Something that Saudi princes would naturally be expected to have problems with.

Lucky guess.

Was that it? This post was one of your better ones. I could tell, because I read every word and didn't quit before the end...

Thanks, Milton.

This post has been edited by Abd: Sun 31st July 2011, 7:11pm

[-DS-]

The ArbCom ban on MickMacNee is now in effect.

[Milton Roe]

The ArbCom ban on MickMacNee is now in effect.

So? If you swear at and edit-war with others PRIMARILY to make them angry, you're going to make them angry. What else, exactly, did MickMacNee expect? He's a poster child for disruption for the sake of disruption, rather than "disruption" which is labeled as such because it's criticism of the project that is too true or embarassing for the high muckymucks to bear.

And Casliber is probably right that something went dreadfully wrong with his potty-training.