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Peter Damian
post Mon 3rd October 2011, 8:27pm
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I'm struggling to find any information on this one. Did Jimmy set it up in 1996, 1998, or 2000? Where did he get the money to set it up? Why were the servers in a shack in Tampa, Florida, when the main office was in San Diego? When did Jimmy move to San Diego?

Wikipedia, as always when it comes to such matters, is reticent.
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Milton Roe
post Mon 3rd October 2011, 8:44pm
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QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 3rd October 2011, 1:27pm) *

I'm struggling to find any information on this one. Did Jimmy set it up in 1996, 1998, or 2000? Where did he get the money to set it up? Why were the servers in a shack in Tampa, Florida, when the main office was in San Diego? When did Jimmy move to San Diego?

Wikipedia, as always when it comes to such matters, is reticent.

All web sources point to Bomis as dating from 1996. Interestingly, name rhymes with "promise." I'd been saying it wrong all this time.
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EricBarbour
post Mon 3rd October 2011, 8:48pm
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QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 3rd October 2011, 1:27pm) *
Wikipedia, as always when it comes to such matters, is reticent.

That's an understatement. The Bomis article has been "sanitized" of a number of facts. This is how it looked at its peak size, in 2009, when it was still somewhat factual. Notice the amazing lack of useful references or justification for various statements.

The Bomis article is "special". It's one of their oldest surviving articles (8 Sept 2001), it was created by Larry Sanger himself, it was edited a great deal by Erik Moeller, and all of the Wiki-fanboys have had their fingers in it. Even Selina, the operator of WR, edited it. (And got banned for arguing with Moeller, predictably.)
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Milton Roe
post Mon 3rd October 2011, 9:16pm
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QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Mon 3rd October 2011, 1:48pm) *

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 3rd October 2011, 1:27pm) *
Wikipedia, as always when it comes to such matters, is reticent.

That's an understatement. The Bomis article has been "sanitized" of a number of facts. This is how it looked at its peak size, in 2009, when it was still somewhat factual. Notice the amazing lack of useful references or justification for various statements.

The Bomis article is "special". It's one of their oldest surviving articles (8 Sept 2001), it was created by Larry Sanger himself, it was edited a great deal by Erik Moeller, and all of the Wiki-fanboys have had their fingers in it. Even Selina, the operator of WR, edited it. (And got banned for arguing with Moeller, predictably.)

Youch!

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...ess+Selina+Kyle
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EricBarbour
post Mon 3rd October 2011, 9:29pm
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QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Mon 3rd October 2011, 1:44pm) *
Interestingly, name rhymes with "promise." I'd been saying it wrong all this time.

People sometimes called it "Bone Us", fyi...... tongue.gif

You are welcome to pronounce it any way you wish. If it were not the incubator of Wikipedia, knowledge of it would have disappeared long ago and left no trace, like an absurdly long list of other dotcom failures.

Oh, btw, here's the only existing photo of Bomis staff. Circa 2000.
Image

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Thu 6th October 2011, 4:35am
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thekohser
post Mon 3rd October 2011, 9:34pm
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QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Mon 3rd October 2011, 4:48pm) *

Even Selina, the operator of WR, edited it. (And got banned for arguing with Moeller, predictably.)

With an edit like that, it makes me think Selina is either Jimbo or Tim Shell.
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EricBarbour
post Mon 3rd October 2011, 9:43pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 3rd October 2011, 2:34pm) *

With an edit like that, it makes me think Selina is either Jimbo or Tim Shell.

I seriously doubt that--look at her early edit history.
Why would Jimbo or Tim edit things like bass-guitar and Batman articles, and go around inviting people to add a "world citizen" userbox to their webpages?

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Mon 3rd October 2011, 9:44pm
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Milton Roe
post Mon 3rd October 2011, 9:45pm
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QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Mon 3rd October 2011, 2:29pm) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Mon 3rd October 2011, 1:44pm) *
Interestingly, name rhymes with "promise." I'd been saying it wrong all this time.

People sometimes called it "Bone Us", fyi...... tongue.gif

You are welcome to pronounce it any way you wish. If it were not the incubator of Wikipedia, knowledge of it would have disappeared long ago and left no trace, like an absurdly long list of other dotcom failures.

Oh, btw, here's the only existing photo of Bomis staff. Circa 2000.
Image

So is that Larry Sanger, seated at right? Doh, I see that it is. All these people are identified: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bom...summer-2000.jpg

And that's Jimbo third from the left, with arm around then-wife Christine, who is pregnant.

Jimbo and Larry seem to have been separated-at-birth, in this photo. Interesting! Despite Jimbo's even longer beard in 2000, Jimbo and Larry looked far more alike THEN, than they do now. The identical round glasses help. I guess we tend to hire images of ourselves, eh?
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Larry Sanger
post Tue 4th October 2011, 6:27pm
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I'm pretty sure I have a copy of this picture in the basement, and another one too, which has Ed O'Connor in it (one of my favorite people from Bomis days). Oh, believe me, if people really, really wanted to, they could amass a really interesting collection of early Wikipedia-related memorabilia.
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Milton Roe
post Tue 4th October 2011, 6:40pm
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QUOTE(Larry Sanger @ Tue 4th October 2011, 11:27am) *

I'm pretty sure I have a copy of this picture in the basement, and another one too, which has Ed O'Connor in it (one of my favorite people from Bomis days). Oh, believe me, if people really, really wanted to, they could amass a really interesting collection of early Wikipedia-related memorabilia.

The non-Sanger reader should note that this photo of course was taken by said Ed O'Connor, which is why he's not in it.
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Peter Damian
post Tue 4th October 2011, 6:48pm
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QUOTE(Larry Sanger @ Tue 4th October 2011, 7:27pm) *

I'm pretty sure I have a copy of this picture in the basement, and another one too, which has Ed O'Connor in it (one of my favorite people from Bomis days). Oh, believe me, if people really, really wanted to, they could amass a really interesting collection of early Wikipedia-related memorabilia.


Larry - just the person. I am researching the pre-history of Wikipedia. I know Bomis was registered in 1996, but when did it actually set up in business in San Diego? Jimmy did not move there until 1998. Did it actually start in 1998?

You say here http://www.larrysanger.org/roleinwp.html

QUOTE
It was Bomis that paid the bills for Wikipedia (including my paycheck), and Wales, Tim Shell, and Michael Davis were, to the best of my knowledge, equal partners and co-owners of Bomis, Inc.


But Jimmy always claimed he was the majority partner. And what was Tim Shell's involvement? He always seemed a mysterious character.

Regards,

Edward

This post has been edited by Peter Damian: Tue 4th October 2011, 6:52pm
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Kelly Martin
post Tue 4th October 2011, 7:06pm
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I am fairly certain that Wales was not an "equal partner" with Davis; at least one of the court filings I saw related to the Dowling matter claimed that Davis had a majority stake in Bomis.

Jimmy et al may well have represented to Sanger that that was the circumstance, of course; it's fairly obvious at this point that all three of Jimmy, Michael, and Tim dissembled on a regular basis to sundry and all, and none appear to have any qualms at all about making false representations when they believe they won't get caught.
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Peter Damian
post Tue 4th October 2011, 9:10pm
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Tue 4th October 2011, 8:06pm) *

I am fairly certain that Wales was not an "equal partner" with Davis; at least one of the court filings I saw related to the Dowling matter claimed that Davis had a majority stake in Bomis.


Surely not. Jimmy states here http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikip...ber/000657.html that "I am the majority owner of Bomis. Tim Shell is my partner, and we have another partner who is (merely) an investor, not an active participant in the company."

I am still puzzled why he does not mention the name of the third partner.

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Kelly Martin
post Wed 5th October 2011, 12:36am
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Unfortunately, you can't rely on anything that Jimmy says for any purpose whatsoever. There is simply no way knowing when he's telling the truth and when he's lying, because he seems to lie without provocation and even often without purpose. He is the ultimate in unreliable sources.

Sadly, we'll probably never know. Bomis was, I believe, a Delaware corporation, which means its shareholder books are privileged. There's essentially no way to find out who owned how much, other than the statements of the principals, which are contradictory and untrustworthy.
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Peter Damian
post Wed 5th October 2011, 8:33am
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Wed 5th October 2011, 1:36am) *

Sadly, we'll probably never know. Bomis was, I believe, a Delaware corporation, which means its shareholder books are privileged. There's essentially no way to find out who owned how much, other than the statements of the principals, which are contradictory and untrustworthy.


Is it this kind of thing?
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2008/04...c-its-got-to-go

What kind of country are you Americans running? A special state (Delaware?) with secrecy laws about company incorporation. Another special state (Florida?) where a creditor can take more than a million dollars of assets and secure them away from creditors. And Wikimedia, the organisation committed to transparency and the sum total of human knowledge, makes full use of these arrangements?

Will be an interesting theme for the book.
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SB_Johnny
post Wed 5th October 2011, 11:00am
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Wed 5th October 2011, 1:36am) *

Sadly, we'll probably never know. Bomis was, I believe, a Delaware corporation, which means its shareholder books are privileged.
There's essentially no way to find out who owned how much, other than the statements of the principals, which are contradictory and untrustworthy.

Which mekes me wonder if there might be some other sort of shelter benefit Jimmy might be getting from living in the UK now.
QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Wed 5th October 2011, 4:33am) *

Is it this kind of thing?
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2008/04...c-its-got-to-go

What kind of country are you Americans running? A special state (Delaware?) with secrecy laws about company incorporation.

A growing group of young people seem to think it's only a very few Americans actually running the place lately.
QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Wed 5th October 2011, 4:33am) *

Another special state (Florida?) where a creditor can take more than a million dollars of assets and secure them away from creditors.
And Wikimedia, the organisation committed to transparency and the sum total of human knowledge, makes full use of these arrangements?

Will be an interesting theme for the book.

US states are in some respects more similar to EU nations than to French Departments. Their ability to compete with one another is largely limited,
but where the limits aren't there (or clear, or enforced, etc.) they're rather shameless in their efforts to attract the wealthy folks.

And Mods: could we maybe shrink the photos above so that we can read this thread without the annoying distraction of horizontal scrolling?
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thekohser
post Wed 5th October 2011, 11:03am
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QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Wed 5th October 2011, 4:33am) *

What kind of country are you Americans running?

The kind that whupped the King who thought taxation without representation was a fair deal.

evilgrin.gif
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Detective
post Wed 5th October 2011, 9:10pm
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QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Wed 5th October 2011, 12:00pm) *

US states are in some respects more similar to EU nations than to French Departments.

Indeed, in some ways they are more independent than EU nations. In some areas, laws can be forced on all EU countries by majority vote that, under the US constitution, are matters for states hence beyond federal control.

QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 5th October 2011, 12:03pm) *

The kind that whupped the King who thought taxation without representation was a fair deal.

evilgrin.gif

Indeed, you only have to look at Washington DC, where many thousands of taxpayers live who enjoy full representation in the Senate ... er, I'll get back to you on that.
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Malik Shabazz
post Wed 5th October 2011, 9:38pm
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QUOTE(Detective @ Wed 5th October 2011, 5:10pm) *

QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 5th October 2011, 12:03pm) *

The kind that whupped the King who thought taxation without representation was a fair deal.

evilgrin.gif

Indeed, you only have to look at Washington DC, where many thousands of taxpayers live who enjoy full representation in the Senate ... er, I'll get back to you on that.

Tell me about it. angry.gif
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SB_Johnny
post Wed 5th October 2011, 11:49pm
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QUOTE(Malik Shabazz @ Wed 5th October 2011, 5:38pm) *

QUOTE(Detective @ Wed 5th October 2011, 5:10pm) *

QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 5th October 2011, 12:03pm) *

The kind that whupped the King who thought taxation without representation was a fair deal.

evilgrin.gif

Indeed, you only have to look at Washington DC, where many thousands of taxpayers live who enjoy full representation in the Senate ... er, I'll get back to you on that.

Tell me about it. angry.gif

Technically the "representing" is supposed to be in the house. As a Pennsylvanian, my Senate voting power is a nearly vanishing fraction
compared to those sensible people in Utah or Alaska. dry.gif
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