Non TS/TV males who post as women on WP, testimonials wanted, enquire within Options

[the fieryangel]

In the project that I'm currently working on with Peter, Greg, and Eric, I'm writing the chapter on Users. In the section discussing the systemic bias, I'm going to try to go into detail as to the gender gap and possible reasons why this exists.

It's obvious why TS/TV individuals post as women, so that's pretty self-explanatory (dare I say "normal"?) However, it would seem that a great many non-TS/TV males contribute to WP as females, either via sock puppets (à la Kristen Erikson) and also as their main personae. I'm looking for people who would be willing to discuss how posting as females changes the experience on WP. I would also be interested in women who post as males and why they do that. (I know of at least one experience of this happening and I'm sure that there are more....)

Just send me a private message here and we'll discuss it.

[Ottava]

Most of the "TS/TV" identify as males irl and just say that online because they were caught pretending to be female. It is all nonsense. They just want attention and demand to have their fantasies indulged or are trying to justify/hide that they were pretending to be female to manipulate others. I love when the furries demand to be addressed as their imaginary characters on IRC too.

[carbuncle]

Most of the "TS/TV" identify as males irl and just say that online because they were caught pretending to be female. It is all nonsense. They just want attention and demand to have their fantasies indulged or are trying to justify/hide that they were pretending to be female to manipulate others. I love when the furries demand to be addressed as their imaginary characters on IRC too.

There may be more than one reason why someone would pretend to be something online that they are not in real life. I think this was a request for people to come forward and contact the fieryangel, not an inducement to start a discussion on the topic.

[Ottava]

Most of the "TS/TV" identify as males irl and just say that online because they were caught pretending to be female. It is all nonsense. They just want attention and demand to have their fantasies indulged or are trying to justify/hide that they were pretending to be female to manipulate others. I love when the furries demand to be addressed as their imaginary characters on IRC too.

There may be more than one reason why someone would pretend to be something online that they are not in real life. I think this was a request for people to come forward and contact the fieryangel, not an inducement to start a discussion on the topic.

Yet not everyone is able to actually send private messages, and it is posted publicly and not locked. So....



By the way, I saw at least 2 males who are known to merely have been pretending to be females before (and both came out as TV to hide from censure) be given the "survey" for women. Wonderful stuff.

This post has been edited by Ottava: Mon 7th November 2011, 3:17pm

[carbuncle]

By the way, I saw at least 2 males who are known to merely have been pretending to be females before (and both came out as TV to hide from censure) be given the "survey" for women. Wonderful stuff.

Perhaps they are "TS/TV", which is why they would say that they were so and why they might adopt an online female identity? It seems odd to me that someone would admit to being something that opens them up to ridicule, misunderstanding, and abuse rather than admit to lying about their gender. I'm not discounting that trolls are going to, well, troll, but I don't understand why you assume that their claims are false. Is it simply that transgendered people are an impossibility in your worldview?

[Ottava]

By the way, I saw at least 2 males who are known to merely have been pretending to be females before (and both came out as TV to hide from censure) be given the "survey" for women. Wonderful stuff.

Perhaps they are "TS/TV", which is why they would say that they were so and why they might adopt an online female identity? It seems odd to me that someone would admit to being something that opens them up to ridicule, misunderstanding, and abuse rather than admit to lying about their gender. I'm not discounting that trolls are going to, well, troll, but I don't understand why you assume that their claims are false. Is it simply that transgendered people are an impossibility in your worldview?

They walk around as males irl.

Furthermore, the whole TS/TV thing is bs. Merely putting on an outfit or an identity does not make you such, or there are a lot of Hamlets out there.

[carbuncle]

Furthermore, the whole TS/TV thing is bs. Merely putting on an outfit or an identity does not make you such, or there are a lot of Hamlets out there.

I'm going to assume that by "such" you mean "the gender normally associated with such clothing". What if a biological male dresses and acts like a female at all times, takes female hormones, gets breast implants, and has their penis reconstructed into a simulated vagina? Does that count? Just curious.

This post has been edited by carbuncle: Mon 7th November 2011, 7:33pm

[Ottava]

Furthermore, the whole TS/TV thing is bs. Merely putting on an outfit or an identity does not make you such, or there are a lot of Hamlets out there.

I'm going to assume that by "such" you mean "the gender normally associated with such clothing". What if a biological male dresses and acts like a female at all times, takes female hormones, gets breast implants, and has their penis reconstructed into a simulated vagina? Does that count? Just curious.

Look at it this way:

The guy who inked his skin blue, put in metal and bone implants into his body, and cut up his ears to make himself look like some kind of freakish cat person is still human.

There is less genetic difference between a male chimp and a male human than there is between a male human and a female human. You cannot change your genetic code because you cut your body apart, used chemicals, etc.

Johns Hopkins stopped sex changes because they determined that it was a mental disease. You can read about it here. Note, they were the ones that pioneered the sex change operations, and the guy who started it all was the one to realize that it was really, really problematic. The people need psychological counseling in the same way furries do and anyone else who needs to play pretend.

Thinking you are the wrong gender is no different from thinking you are the wrong race, species, etc. It is all about self-loathing. It takes a lot of insanity to think "maybe if I chop up my sexual organs that will make me better". It is related to body dysmorphia and other major illnesses.

And this is assuming the people aren't just doing it for attention, which 99.9% of the people on Wikipedia do it for (and many, like Poetlister, abuse that attention to try and gain power, trust, etc).



Eric:

By definition, women are not welcome, and it encourages men to pose as women (Poetlister and
many more) to score "points" or to manipulate others. WP's culture is inherently hostile, which is why
the "Mind the Gap" business is a joke.

You are forgetting one thing: the old idea that "only a man knows how to please a man" (the theme from M Butterfly) - i.e. men pose as women and then manipulate other men in ways women would not.

Judgmentally: Jeff, please spare us the Catholic "social engineering".

It has nothing to do with religion and all to do with psychology. Read the Johns Hopkins report. They stopped sex change surgeries because they determined that it was a horrible mistake in indulging these people who need psychological treatment instead.

This post has been edited by Ottava: Mon 7th November 2011, 11:05pm