Non TS/TV males who post as women on WP, testimonials wanted, enquire within Options

[the fieryangel]

In the project that I'm currently working on with Peter, Greg, and Eric, I'm writing the chapter on Users. In the section discussing the systemic bias, I'm going to try to go into detail as to the gender gap and possible reasons why this exists.

It's obvious why TS/TV individuals post as women, so that's pretty self-explanatory (dare I say "normal"?) However, it would seem that a great many non-TS/TV males contribute to WP as females, either via sock puppets (à la Kristen Erikson) and also as their main personae. I'm looking for people who would be willing to discuss how posting as females changes the experience on WP. I would also be interested in women who post as males and why they do that. (I know of at least one experience of this happening and I'm sure that there are more....)

Just send me a private message here and we'll discuss it.

[carbuncle]

Ottava, you may be conflating the sexual reassignment of infants born with ambiguous or malformed genitalia with the sexual reassignment of adults. This is part of the Johns Hopkins case you present, and the subject of one of the studies cited.

In any case, that wasn't my point. I was simply curious about your views on gender. I am not at all surprised by your answers here. (Nor am I surprised to see your fingerprints all over Paul R. McHugh's BLP...)

This post has been edited by carbuncle: Tue 8th November 2011, 3:54am

[Ottava]

Ottava, you may be conflating the sexual reassignment of infants born with ambiguous or malformed genitalia with the sexual reassignment of adults. This is part of the Johns Hopkins case you present, and the subject of one of the studies cited.

What I quoted

"As for the adults who came to us claiming to have discovered their 'true' sexual identity and to have heard about sex-change operations, we psychiatrists have been distracted from studying the causes and natures of their mental misdirections by preparing them for surgery and for a life in the other sex. We have wasted scientific and technical resources and damaged our professional credibility by collaborating with madness rather than trying to study, cure, and ultimately prevent it." p. 228 Dr. Paul McHugh, one of the few world experts on Sex Reassignment Surgery and has a background that few can compare.


It has nothing to do with children.

It is shameful that the people who believe that such things are anything but an illness are blatantly making things up.

Dr McHugh makes it clear that 1. they are adults and 2. they are all mad. There is no way to argue against that. You can say that Dr. McHugh is wrong, but you cannot say that he doesn't think all TG is a mental illness. He is one of the biggest opponents of transgender operations in the world because of years of studying and realizing that it is nothing more than an illness.



Somey

As for what's clear and what isn't, the first article says, in paragraph 2, "The prevailing theory at the time was that while sex was genetically determined at birth, the concept of gender was culturally shaped and malleable and that being female or male were interchangeable." It seems more likely to me that by "madness," he's referring to the fact that this was the prevailing theory, and not necessarily a specific reference to the mental states of SRS patients.

You bash me over sources, but you are taking one source and saying it refers to another when it is clear that it does not.

" by collaborating with madness rather than trying to study, cure, and ultimately prevent it" from Dr McHugh clearly means "we need to make these people realize that their gender is the right one and that they were not born with the wrong gender". That means the whole gender confusion is a mental illness. There is no other way to interpret it.



Alison

"Bear in mind that this is a guy who doesn't know what a vagina is. Yet here he is, pontificating on matters sexual, all the while he's yanking everyone's chain ... again"

You know very well that vagina is used as short hand for vaginal area and that all nicknames refer to the crotch as a whole. You are quibbling over my using a colloquial and non-specific phrase by substituting a medical definition in order to make an outrageous claim, then you state that -I- am the one trying to go off topic. Odd, I put up actual, credible experts who make it clear that TG is an illness and cannot be anything but, and the opposition has to stoop to outright fantasies or crazy attacks.

If you had a case, you would have put up evidence. You validate that there is no way to justify these people.

[Alison]

Alison

"Bear in mind that this is a guy who doesn't know what a vagina is. Yet here he is, pontificating on matters sexual, all the while he's yanking everyone's chain ... again"

You know very well that vagina is used as short hand for vaginal area and that all nicknames refer to the crotch as a whole. You are quibbling over my using a colloquial and non-specific phrase by substituting a medical definition in order to make an outrageous claim, then you state that -I- am the one trying to go off topic. Odd, I put up actual, credible experts who make it clear that TG is an illness and cannot be anything but, and the opposition has to stoop to outright fantasies or crazy attacks.

If you had a case, you would have put up evidence. You validate that there is no way to justify these people.

LOL - I'm not here to debate with you, Ottava. You've clearly and repeatedly shown me that you're utterly impervious to reason. Being ignorant of what a vagina is (and lemme tell ya: if you have one, these things matter ) is just one indicator as to how pig-ignorant you are. I have plenty to say on these matters and have posted at length on related issues, so can stand up to proper, scientific criticism. But when someone's "rebuttal" consists of "f'off with your pc hippie bs", then I know we're done and there's truly no point in continuing. Cleaning out my cat's litter box would be a far better use of my time and arguably more intellectually stimulating.

tldr; There's no point in attempting to discuss anything here as you're just here to troll others and stroke your own ego.

[Ottava]

LOL - I'm not here to debate with you, Ottava. You've clearly and repeatedly shown me that you're utterly impervious to reason. Being ignorant of what a vagina is (and lemme tell ya: if you have one, these things matter ) is just one indicator as to how pig-ignorant you are.

Because I don't use words with a technical specificity of someone who is trying to be a douche?

Both "vag" (444k hits) and "vagina" (3.37 million hits) are quite common when talking about "shaving".

In common usage, it is done quite often. You aren't right, just a snob.

[Abd]

Because I don't use words with a technical specificity of someone who is trying to be a douche?

The really sad thing is that Ottava imagines he can win arguments. He is current involved in many threads (particularly at Wikiversity and meta) where he's completely out to lunch, yet he attacks everyone else as obviously wrong, and worse than wrong, with evil intentions to boot. Almost everything he sticks his fingers in becomes Ottava's Right, You are Wrong. When someone comes back with a cogent answer, he then says, "See! Look how Wrong you are! You shouldn't be allowed to say anything, you are so wrong. You should be banned."

And then when he's banned, he's so amazed. Why is he being banned? After all, he was Right, and they are the ones who should be banned!

I understand the problem with being Right, it's one of my afflictions. But I don't try to ban people who disagree with me. I actually try to listen and respond. It takes all kinds. If everyone agreed with me, it would be totally boring, not to mention agreement on an error, at least sometimes!