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> Letter to UK Charity Commission, Is this a big enough stick? I hope so.
Peter Damian
post Tue 22nd November 2011, 8:37pm
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I think I have found a lever at long last. The clue is in the long time it took for Wikimedia UK to get recognised as a charity. As Ashley van H says here http://bambuser.com/channel/pigsonthewing/broadcast/2140981 "it was quite a big story [i.e. charitable status] for the U.K - the charity commission struggled for a long period, and has had to refine their understanding of a public utility". What does he mean? Well it goes back to 2009, when the Charity Commission ruled that "The production of an encyclopaedia is not the charitable advancement of education and has not been accepted as such in law... If the object [should] be the mere increase of knowledge it is not in itself a charitable object unless it is combined with teaching or education," http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/27/wi...ia_charity_not/ (register article)

So kudos to Jonathan Burchfield, partner at the law firm Stone King (specialists in Charity and Education Law, for reversing this decision:

QUOTE
In accepting Stone King’s application on behalf of Wikimedia UK, the Commission has been at pains to point out that the publication of information useful to the public and the promotion of open content are not inherently charitable activities. Any similar organisation seeking to become registered with the Charity Commission would need to demonstrate that its activities are exclusively for the public benefit and that the content promoted has sufficient editorial controls and safeguards on the accuracy and objectivity of the information provided. In Wikipedia’s case, for example, the continuous development and operation of editing policies and content security tools assure an increasingly high quality of content.”
http://www.stoneking.co.uk/news/articles/-/page/1244 (Stone King press release)


QUOTE

“Burchfield said that in order to be registered, Wikimedia UK had to demonstrate that it had high standards for controlling and monitoring the content of Wikipedia so that it was not easily open to abuse.”
http://www.thirdsector.co.uk/news/1102747/ (Third Sector)


This is really really really important. Wikimedia's lawyers had to argue that Wikimedia can operate under the heading "object of general public utility" as proposed by Samuel Romilly in the 19th century. There is a (somewhat long and difficult) legal judgment here http://www.btinternet.com/~akme/shaw.html which illustrates the principle involved. According to the Romilly principle, benefit has to be conferred on the public by the proposed ends of the charity. Political purposes are not OK, nor the furtherance of a movement such as 'the Wikimedia movement'. Some identifiable section of the community must derive a real benefit from the purpose. More details from the Charity Commission website http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/Librar...e/lawpb1208.pdf .

It was under a generous interpretation of the Romilly principle that WMUK was recognised. This was clearly why there was a requirement that "the content promoted has sufficient editorial controls and safeguards on the accuracy and objectivity of the information provided. "

I am now preparing an appeal to the UK Charities Commission, giving clear evidence of all the points in which WMUK demonstrably fails to meet the requirement for general public benefit, either because it lacks 'sufficient editorial controls', or for other reasons such as simply not benefiting the general public.

Any suggestions welcome. I am particularly interested in recent cases where Wikipedia has failed to provide appropriate control or oversight. I can think of a few, such as the Philip Mould case http://ocham.blogspot.com/2011/05/wikipedi...in-fiction.html, where a gross slur remained on the site for a year and a half. What are appropriate controls for this sort of thing? Is anonymous editing an insufficient? I think so. Is making the WMUK board collectively responsible for the content of BLPs a minimum condition for good control? I think so too. Please let me have your suggestions

A thing that already puzzles me is that if WMUK must 'control and monitor' the content, the following statement from its website seems inconsistent with that.

QUOTE

Please note that we are a separate organization from the Wikimedia Foundation, and have no control over Wikipedia or any other Wikimedia Foundation projects.” http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

Indeed, the whole principle on which Wikipedia was founded was that there should be no editorial oversight in the traditional sense, and that all content would be the result of a ruthless Darwinian fight for survival. That in itself makes it impossible for WMUK to 'control and monitor' content.

This post has been edited by Peter Damian: Tue 22nd November 2011, 8:38pm
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dogbiscuit
post Thu 24th November 2011, 8:44am
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Could you run through Verifiability not Truth once more?
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Some good specific examples, though I'd guess to respond to attacks against the Chair or body itself would give the impression of self-interest and give the CC a problem.

What are some good solid generic problems that a public body could not ignore?

The dysfunctional discussion on image filters might actually be a solid example - the way Wikimedia UK has no ability to consider or impose control for the public good, and WMF has stepped back from imposing any solution. Need to hunt out some key words there. It is a good example, because it is current.

Clearly, another good example is the subversion of National Gallery assets into the public domain. I am not clear how best to arrange that argument, and I suspect that there is an implication of breaking some UK law, Misuse of Computers Act (if someone used the National Gallery system to extract the pictures against the express lack of consent of the National Gallery) as well as a moral position. What is the link between the extractor and Wikimedia UK?

The wider problem being that the Wikipedian community is vociferous in imposing its own code of conduct not only within the organisation but on matters that impinge on the real world. I suspect there are some good examples that would support this, the casual promotion of pornography for example. As a generator of conflict and its inability for resolve disputes, it has a negative impact on the charitable aims.

Finally, there is a problem that Wikimedia UK trustees have a duty to Wikimedia UK and should only act in the interests of Wikimedia UK, not the wider Wikipedia or WMF. There is probably little evidence of a conflict of interest, but something worth monitoring.
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Cla68
post Thu 24th November 2011, 2:20pm
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If I remember right, there was an article on a British lower-division professional rugby or football team which had been heavily vandalized and the vandalism had stood for something like a year. The text had said something like, among other things, "The Farthingham Trotters are the largets openly homosexual team in British professional football" or something like that.
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Posts in this topic
Peter Damian   Letter to UK Charity Commission   Tue 22nd November 2011, 8:37pm
EricBarbour   This is really really really important. Wikimedia...   Tue 22nd November 2011, 9:39pm
Daniel Brandt   --evidence of WP defamation (Daniel Brandt, conse...   Wed 23rd November 2011, 3:00pm
SB_Johnny   [quote name='EricBarbour' post='289114' date='Tue...   Wed 23rd November 2011, 6:28pm
gomi   [Modnote: I removed (to the Tar Pit) some posts th...   Tue 22nd November 2011, 9:52pm
EricBarbour   For some extra "oomph", you could print ...   Tue 22nd November 2011, 10:16pm
UseOnceAndDestroy   Wikipedia has no controls, because it does not kno...   Wed 23rd November 2011, 2:11pm
Peter Damian   David r from meth productions https://secure.wikim...   Wed 23rd November 2011, 7:52pm
Peter Damian   I think the charity commission might be interested...   Wed 23rd November 2011, 8:00pm
EricBarbour   Perhaps the chair of the Charity Commission should...   Thu 24th November 2011, 3:05am
Michaeldsuarez   Perhaps the chair of the Charity Commission shoul...   Thu 24th November 2011, 3:40am
EricBarbour   In fact, people have been inserting defamatory rem...   Thu 24th November 2011, 3:53am
Cla68   If I remember right, there was an article on a Bri...   Thu 24th November 2011, 2:20pm
timbo   Narcs suck. t   Thu 24th November 2011, 4:37pm
Kelly Martin   It's interesting how WMUK abjectedly lied in i...   Thu 24th November 2011, 6:04pm
SB_Johnny   It's interesting how WMUK abjectedly lied in ...   Thu 24th November 2011, 6:26pm
dogbiscuit   It's interesting how WMUK abjectedly lied in ...   Thu 24th November 2011, 6:39pm
Peter Damian   The exact wording of the application would be hel...   Thu 24th November 2011, 8:29pm
timbo   WHACK WHACK WHACK!!! Beat that st...   Mon 28th November 2011, 8:52am
Peter Damian   How about this: "The Nazis murdered millions...   Mon 28th November 2011, 10:37pm
timbo   How about this: "The Nazis murdered million...   Tue 29th November 2011, 7:28pm
Peter Damian   Actually, it's a ludicrous and insane analogy...   Tue 29th November 2011, 7:30pm
SB_Johnny   you're too smart for that. As opposed to you....   Wed 30th November 2011, 9:27pm
Kelly Martin   It does occur to me that Jimmy's relocation to...   Thu 24th November 2011, 6:48pm
RMHED   The listing as it appears on the Commissions websi...   Thu 24th November 2011, 7:41pm
carbuncle   The listing as it appears on the Commissions [url...   Thu 24th November 2011, 9:49pm
RMHED   [quote name='RMHED' post='289296' date='Thu 24th ...   Thu 24th November 2011, 10:48pm
Detective   The listing as it appears on the Commissions webs...   Thu 24th November 2011, 10:32pm
RMHED   The listing as it appears on the Commissions [ur...   Thu 24th November 2011, 11:20pm
dogbiscuit   The fact that the charity trustees are employing p...   Thu 24th November 2011, 10:53pm
dogbiscuit   "Verifiability not truth" could be anoth...   Fri 25th November 2011, 8:34am
Cla68   That would be just outstanding if WR could get the...   Fri 25th November 2011, 12:59pm
Peter Damian   I have discussed with Mike Peel and it turns out t...   Sun 27th November 2011, 3:30pm
Daniel Brandt   If you have an occasion to mention John Seigenthal...   Sun 27th November 2011, 4:20pm
Peter Damian   If you have an occasion to mention John Seigentha...   Sun 27th November 2011, 4:31pm
Kelly Martin   There is an article in the press about once a mont...   Sun 27th November 2011, 4:42pm
Peter Damian   Here is a transcription of the Fanning interview. ...   Sun 27th November 2011, 4:57pm
thekohser   The "obscure" article about John Seigent...   Sun 27th November 2011, 7:30pm
Peter Damian   Thankfully, it appears that Wikipedia does have hi...   Sun 27th November 2011, 9:25pm
dogbiscuit   Thankfully, it appears that Wikipedia does have h...   Mon 28th November 2011, 1:32am
lilburne   Perhaps they explained all about 'pending chan...   Mon 28th November 2011, 7:37am
EricBarbour   Perhaps they explained all about 'pending cha...   Mon 28th November 2011, 7:48am
lilburne   [quote name='lilburne' post='289627' date='Sun 27...   Mon 28th November 2011, 6:48pm
dogbiscuit   RE: Letter to UK Charity Commission   Mon 28th November 2011, 10:39pm
Peter Damian   However, WMUK says the Charity Commission has ...   Tue 29th November 2011, 6:58pm
Peter Damian   I had some comments from HJ Mitchell ( http://en.w...   Wed 30th November 2011, 8:11pm
Eppur si muove   He says “no BLP dispute (to the best of my know...   Wed 30th November 2011, 8:23pm
Kelly Martin   He says “no BLP dispute (to the best of my kno...   Wed 30th November 2011, 9:00pm
thekohser   He says “no BLP dispute (to the best of my know...   Wed 30th November 2011, 9:39pm
Detective   He says “no BLP dispute (to the best of my know...   Tue 6th December 2011, 9:42pm
Daniel Brandt   [quote name='Peter Damian' post='289879' date='We...   Wed 7th December 2011, 3:08am
lilburne   Of concern would be people from WMFUK interacting ...   Wed 30th November 2011, 9:23pm
carbuncle   I wasn't trying to stay out of this, but the c...   Wed 30th November 2011, 9:55pm
Cla68   Another example you might could use to show that t...   Fri 2nd December 2011, 6:28am
Eppur si muove   Another example you might could use to show that ...   Fri 2nd December 2011, 7:58am
Peter Damian   Another example you might could use to show that ...   Sat 3rd December 2011, 9:40am
SB_Johnny   [quote name='Cla68' post='290005' date='Fri 2nd D...   Sat 3rd December 2011, 10:15am
Peter Damian   I have the usual problem of making sense of this l...   Sat 3rd December 2011, 10:28am
Peter Damian   Meanwhile I am struggling here http://uk.wikimedia...   Sat 3rd December 2011, 1:33pm
Cla68   Meanwhile I am struggling here http://uk.wikimedi...   Sun 4th December 2011, 8:25am
Peter Damian   Did you also try asking the CC? The government a...   Sun 4th December 2011, 8:37am
lonza leggiera   I think I have found a lever at long last. The c...   Wed 7th December 2011, 5:15am
Peter Damian   [...] Thanks for the long commentary but the fa...   Wed 7th December 2011, 2:20pm
Peter Damian   The stonewalling continues http://uk.wikimedia.org...   Sat 17th December 2011, 9:34am
dogbiscuit   Locally, I've had an interesting update. At th...   Sat 17th December 2011, 3:24pm
GlassBeadGame   Failure to act upon fraud or theft is a very diffe...   Sat 17th December 2011, 4:26pm
Peter Damian   Failure to act upon fraud or theft is a very diff...   Sat 17th December 2011, 6:01pm
GlassBeadGame   You understand UK procedures, yes? That would ...   Sat 17th December 2011, 9:12pm
Malleus   Failure to act upon fraud or theft is a very diff...   Sat 17th December 2011, 10:24pm
thekohser   GBG came back. To criticize a leading member of W...   Sat 17th December 2011, 5:01pm
EricBarbour   Where were we? Oh yeah, here. This does not look ...   Sun 18th December 2011, 3:22am
GlassBeadGame   Where were we? Oh yeah, here. This does not look...   Sun 18th December 2011, 3:45am
thekohser   ... a very common Wikipedian [b][color=#FF0000]ta...   Sun 18th December 2011, 5:21am
Peter Damian   Where were we? Oh yeah, here. This does not look...   Sun 18th December 2011, 9:01am
EricBarbour   Why not? I am getting nowhere, so I am going to ...   Sun 18th December 2011, 11:10am
Peter Damian   I'll try tomorrow. Probably a waste of effort...   Sun 18th December 2011, 11:44am
GlassBeadGame   Why not? I am getting nowhere, so I am going to...   Sun 18th December 2011, 12:50pm
Peter Damian   A FOI should have been have been the starting poi...   Sun 18th December 2011, 1:12pm
GlassBeadGame   A FOI should have been have been the starting po...   Sun 18th December 2011, 1:17pm
dogbiscuit   Why not? I am getting nowhere, so I am going t...   Sun 18th December 2011, 1:41pm
GlassBeadGame   [quote name='GlassBeadGame' post='291076' date='S...   Sun 18th December 2011, 1:46pm
Tarc   Sycophantic blabber. Would you care to tell us ex...   Sun 18th December 2011, 1:58pm
Cla68   Sycophantic blabber. Would you care to tell us e...   Sun 18th December 2011, 10:44pm
thekohser   Sycophantic blabber. GlassBeadGame... now on my ...   Sun 18th December 2011, 2:06pm
Zoloft   Sycophantic blabber. GlassBeadGame... now on my...   Sun 18th December 2011, 5:40pm
GlassBeadGame   Events will tell, providing pressure is kept on Pe...   Sun 18th December 2011, 6:44pm
EricBarbour   Events will tell, providing pressure is kept on P...   Sun 18th December 2011, 9:48pm
GlassBeadGame   Piss off, if you're not going to offer to he...   Sun 18th December 2011, 11:17pm
SB_Johnny   Just when exactly did you and Petey become the bos...   Mon 19th December 2011, 1:02am
dogbiscuit   Piss off, if you're not going to offer to h...   Mon 19th December 2011, 2:20am
GlassBeadGame   [quote name='GlassBeadGame' post='291104' date='S...   Mon 19th December 2011, 2:57am
Emperor   :popcorn: at seeing all of GBG's former asskis...   Mon 19th December 2011, 6:24am
TungstenCarbide   Yaaaawn... On this note I'd like to point ...   Mon 19th December 2011, 7:13am
dogbiscuit   :popcorn: at seeing all of GBG's former asski...   Mon 19th December 2011, 9:05am
EricBarbour   The fact that this thread has five pages and Wikim...   Mon 19th December 2011, 11:07am
Emperor   I just dropped it in the mailbox. Very good...   Mon 19th December 2011, 1:46pm
dogbiscuit   Only a couple of days late... I've skimmed t...   Tue 20th December 2011, 1:34pm
thekohser   What is "Wiki UK"? Is that the officia...   Tue 20th December 2011, 2:06pm
dogbiscuit   Greg, it is all superficial and to be fair to the ...   Tue 20th December 2011, 2:27pm
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