IRC examples, let's have them please Options

[EricBarbour]

This document appears to state that logging specific channels might result in on-wiki sanctions - at the very least, administrators believe that it is appropriate to sanction for log posting without the approval of all quoted absent other violations. Should the following line (or similar) be added in the policy, somewhere:

It is not a violation of en.wikipedia policies to post logs, though it may result in sanctions on IRC.

Thank you for your comments. Hipocrite (talk) 15:49, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Oppose. Your wishing really, really hard for it An RFC cannot change the fact that publishing people's words on Wikipedia without their permissions is a copyvio, and that the posting of copyvios on Wikipedia is sanctionable on Wikipedia. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 16:42, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

How do the logged channels get around this alleged copyvio problem? Hipocrite (talk) 16:45, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Alternatively, we could also just state in this page that logging is permitted, and use the fact that we have authority over the channels to make it so. Hipocrite (talk) 16:48, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Well first, that's not what your RFC says, now is it. And second, as we keep pointing out to you, channels like #wikipedia-en are not the property of Wikipedia, and it is not within Wikipedia's purview to declare the void the copyright of people not editing on projects covered under Wikipedia's license. I can cheerfully declare that by posting on Wikipedia, you waive the right to copyright that novel you're writing, or that technical document you're working on for your job, or that world-changing piece of art you're doing in your spare time - but sadly for my wallet, my saying it here doesn't make it true or enforceable. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 16:58, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Is this condescension really necessary or helpful? Salvio Let's talk about it! 17:21, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

You have a point, Salvio. I was going more for humor, since PeterSymonds and I have already explained copyvio/logs to Hipocrite multiple time up above and just repeating the same words was getting monotonous, but it came across nastier than I intended. I've struck the sarcastic bits. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 17:40, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Oppose Tendentious, unproductive RfC designed solely to prove a WP:POINT. —Tom Morris (talk) 17:11, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Oppose The RFC is flawed, I believe it is against the copyright policy and the WMF privacy policy based on the values that the privacy policy references (as the policy does not specifically discuss IRC). --Fæ (talk) 17:16, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Oppose This would be a copyvio without the permission of all those in said chat. The channels are not run nor controlled by the WMF so we can't exert control over them in any way shape or form. If they have a rule of no public log posting that is up to them to decide. -DJSasso (talk) 17:21, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Question - copyright wise, is there a difference between publishing the logs vs. "making the logs available upon request", as in if Hypocrite logs it, and then I email him for it and he sends me a transcript? Volunteer Marek (talk) 17:40, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Oppose per Tom and my prior comment on the matter. Killiondude (talk) 17:52, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Can you support the claim made in that comment with diffs?Volunteer Marek (talk) 17:55, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Oppose The main issue I have with this proposal is that public logs have the potential to contain information that would be covered by oversight. This is mainly IP addresses of those without cloaks, something that can definitely be logged (my private logs contain such information). From time to time there are also other forms of personally identifiable information which people may (inadvertently or otherwise) post on IRC. Without public logging this isn't a huge problem because the information will cease to be in the public domain after a short period; however with public logging outing is significantly more likely. The potential privacy breaches that public logging on Wikipedia would mean suggests that the proposed statement would be false (as it would in fact be a violation of Wikipedia policies). --Mrmatiko (talk) 18:01, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Oppose. Posting logs is a violation of copyright, it's been discussed many times in the past, it was always declined. I see no argument put forward in this RFC as to *why* releasing logs is or would be beneficial. There is no formal relation between the English Wikipedia and the irc channels in question, and not even between the WMF and the irc channels. Snowolf How can I help? 19:06, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
comment how many people turned up to vote here because they heard about this on IRC? Be honest. I recognise at least two regulars above. 86.168.249.27 (talk) 19:40, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

...I've had this page on my watchlist for years. Perhaps people interested in IRC will have the project page on Wikipedia on their watchlists? But yes, I'm sure there will have been people who come here because it's chatter on irc. Killiondude (talk) 19:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

COME ON, Hipocrite, did you really expect them to be "honest" about this? "Copyvio" is just ironic Wikipedia-speak for IDONTLIKEIT. They are assholes, and you cannot expect "honesty" or "openness". The IRC server is not controlled or paid for by the WMF, and is clearly (CLEARLY) under Section 230. There is NO explicit OR implicit expectation of "copyright" or even "privacy" on IRC chat logs. You can do anything you want with chat logs.

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Fri 6th January 2012, 9:26pm

[Selina]

What is the supersecret admin channel these days?

The fact that they see people talking about it will probably just cause them to scurry away to hide under new rocks though *sigh*

[EricBarbour]

What is the supersecret admin channel these days?

Hi Selina! Please, PLEASE go and pay up the DNS listing for WR for a few years.
I'll help pay for it if you like.

Unless you know how to hack into private channels on Freenode, don't bother.
They are ADHD dorks, even the channel name gets changed several times a day.

That's the essence of IRC: hyperactive children punching buttons.

[Selina]

Hi Selina! Please, PLEASE go and pay up the DNS listing for WR for a few years.

Agree, check out my replies on other threads though, we should think about moving from Godaddy really

Unless you know how to hack into private channels on Freenode, don't bother.
They are ADHD dorks, even the channel name gets changed several times a day.

youtube.com/watch?v=iY57ErBkFFE&list=SPBBA4EA8EABF39223

As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth’s final century,

free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality,

but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism.

Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

This administration stands on the side not of those who seek to withhold information but with those who seek it to be known.

The mere fact that you have the legal power to keep something secret does not mean you should always use it.

Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency.

Funny thing is even though that video is from 1999 and seems spooky, it doesn't actually predict anything because it just talks about something that will always be true.

[Selina]

meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Channels

This page attempts to track and identify the numerous Wikimedia IRC channels (most of which are on the freenode network)

Contents

• 1 Channel policies
• 2 Wikimedia
  • 2.1 Foundation
  • 2.2 Chapters
  • 2.3 Crosswiki access coordination
• 3 Projects
  • 3.1 Project channels
    • 3.1.1 Wikipedia
    • 3.1.2 Other projects
  • 3.2 Specific projects
    • 3.2.1 en.wikipedia
    • 3.2.2 es.wikipedia
    • 3.2.3 it.wikipedia
    • 3.2.4 zh.wikipedia
  • 3.3 Other
• 4 Recent changes
  • 4.1 Raw feeds
  • 4.2 Filtered rc
  • 4.3 Abuse monitoring channels
• 5 Non-Wikimedia
  • 5.1 General
  • 5.2 Tools

wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration&oldid=104702658#The_need_for_existence_of_#wikipedia-en-admins

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IRC admin channel is the last of the multitude of places where this has been discussed. Many ArbCom members took part in these discussions.
[..]
ArbCom recognized that the channel has an evil side
[..]
No examples have been given for inherently confidential "Admin-only" issues to this day, while the very confidentiality of the "Admin-only" channel has been proven to be the reason of several abusive actions. 'The illusion of confidentiality created an illusion of impunity among certain regulars of the channel which resulted in severe offenses, gross incivility, violations of the WP:BLOCKing policies and other malaise.
In view of this, ArbCom is asked to rule whether there is any justification to have the said channel associated with Wikipedia or the Wikimedia foundation.
The decision to shut down the channel, if rendered, would not in any way violate its members' freedom of speech. Nothing prevents the small group of people most closely associated with the channel from communicating in a private medium.
[..]
Reject, community policy issue. Fred Bauder
Reject. I don't believe this is within Arbcom's purview. [..]jpgordon

meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/wikipedia-en-admins/User_list

up-to-date userlist using the following command on any freenode IRC connection: /msg chanserv access #wikipedia-en-admins list (warning: ~430 lines long!).

Contents

• 1 Privacy and last update
• 2 Active channel management
  • 2.1 Channel contact
  • 2.2 SuperOps
  • 2.3 Operators
• 3 Inactive channel management
  • 3.1 Inactive SuperOps
  • 3.2 Inactive Operators
• 4 Complete list of admins
• 5 Contacts
• 6 See also

[Selina]

meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC office hours

[Poor puffed-up popinjay]

The GNAA has a lot.

#wikimedia-ops logs

#wikipedia logs

#wikipedia-en logs

One of #wikipedia-blptf

One of #wikipedia-de

I also have some of #wikimedia-sopa

[16:53] == c-moll_ [user@146-52-0-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wikimedia-sopa
[16:54] == SOPA_Must_Die has changed nick to AdditionalPylons
[16:55] <hf25>
[16:55] == c-moll [~sdgdc@146-52-25-138-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[16:57] == Coren [~kvirc@wikipedia/Coren] has quit [Quit: You require more Vespene gas]
[16:57] == Yumi-chan [~Coolnesse@wikia/Coolnesse] has joined #wikimedia-sopa
[16:58] == Yumi-chan [~Coolnesse@wikia/Coolnesse] has left #wikimedia-sopa []
[16:59] == Missingno255 [~Missingno@unaffiliated/missingno255] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[17:01] <vvv> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/26143
[17:01] <vvv> This should surely go to our SOPA pages
[17:01] <vvv> People have been asking about how they can act in the UK
[17:01] == PeterSymonds [~Peter@wikimedia/PeterSymonds] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[17:02] <gmaxwell> vvv: that looks good.. only 3.7k signatures.
[17:02] <FT2> that one got discussed last night
[17:02] == PeterSymonds [~Peter@wikimedia/PeterSymonds] has joined #wikimedia-sopa
[17:03] <vvv> What was the decision?
[17:03] <FT2> "heart's in the right place, wording could be improved". SOme UK Wikimedians were working on a version to suggest too
[17:03] <FT2> will try to find a link
[17:03] <vvv> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/27728
[17:04] <gmaxwell> even when the plackout is over that should get added to the page that will be in the residual banner.
[17:04] == Mentifisto [mnt@wikipedia/Mentifisto] has joined #wikimedia-sopa
[17:04] == log [~log@wikimedia/Logan] has quit [Quit: brb]
[17:05] <FT2> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOP...ion/UK_petition
[17:05] <FT2> I put a petition wording on comcom-l, someone adapted it for the UK
[17:06] <FT2> dont know how far it got or anything
[17:06] <FT2> a moment
[17:06] <bep> usenet sites also… contributing
[17:06] <bep> http://i.imgur.com/ejP5D.png
[17:07] <FT2> "Okay, well I've submitted the petition as written. It may still not be approved for days, though, which is a bit of an issue. - Jarry1250"
[17:08] <apergos> nice
[17:08] == Risker [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Risker] has joined #wikimedia-sopa
[17:08] <apergos> someone should have an art gallery with some of the most promiment and/or most inventive blackouts
[17:08] <Titoxd> apergos: I prefer the Oatmeal's
[17:09] <Reedy> "I just heard from @EFF that as of a few hours ago blacklist.eff.org has orchestrated 750,000+ unique emails to Congress"
[17:09] <apergos> does anyone need anything from me in the next little while? cause otherwise it's midnight and I'm going to call it a day.
[17:09] == alolita [~asharma@216.38.130.165] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
[17:09] <apergos> Titoxd: yeah, that was pretty darn funny. (I do it for the kittens, myself.)
[17:10] == Jake_Wartenberg [~Jake_Wart@wikipedia/jake-wartenberg] has joined #wikimedia-sopa
[17:10] <gmaxwell> apergos: I thought the 2600 blackout was really good but it wasn't very artsy. It has clear crisp message on an absolutely minimal page.
[17:10] == kaldari [~rkaldari@216.38.130.163] has quit [Quit: kaldari]
[17:10] <apergos> that's a fine reason to include it (I thought it was "artsy" in that it reflected a clear 2600 esthetic)
[17:10] <hf25> Risker!
[17:11] <Risker> hi hf25
[17:11] <hf25> Arbs never seem to use IRC
[17:11] <hf25> Hi
[17:11] <hf25>
[17:11] <Risker> hf25, I am one of the few who does...although usually only in the admins channel
[17:11] == alolita [~asharma@216.38.130.162] has joined #wikimedia-sopa
[17:12] <Risker> things are looking pretty good, the site didn't explode or anything
[17:12] <sgardner> Fluffernutter: yes to a postmortem! If somebody wants to start a meta page, that would be superb. A good format for that kind of thing is to focus on next time -- "keep doing X," "stop doing Y," and "start doing Z."
[17:12] <sgardner> Fluffernutter: if you start a page, I will contribute :-)
[17:12] * Fluffernutter nominates someone with organizational skills to do it. Which isn't me >_>
[17:12] == kaldari [~rkaldari@216.38.130.163] has joined #wikimedia-sopa
[17:12] <Risker> you can do it, Fluff.
[17:13] * Fluffernutter also doesn't have access to any of the data, really...
[17:13] * Fluffernutter looks shifty, tries to scurry out the door
[17:13] <gmaxwell> Fluffernutter: you nag people for it, of course.
[17:13] <Fluffernutter> hey, gmaxwell, you should go start a meta page! say, a postmortem sort of thing!
[17:13] <gmaxwell> I have about e free cycles.

Some from #wikipedia-en the same day (Jan 18)

[16:53] <STFUAboutSOPA> i think it was on reddit, actually
[16:53] == c-moll_ [user@146-52-0-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wikipedia-en
[16:53] <Thogo> that word probably means a lot of things in some of the 7000 languages.
[16:53] <Fluffernutter> Sopa apparently means "shut up" in greek, or so someone told me
[16:54] <pir^2|SOPA|PIPA> o rly?
[16:54] <SOPA_Must_Die> How appropriate
[16:54] <Commandhat> pretty much everyone knows "sopa" is spanish for "soup"
[16:54] == yrt-FUSOPA has changed nick to yrtneg
[16:54] <yrtneg> yeap
[16:54] <henrik> Fluffernutter: and "thrash" in Swedish.
[16:54] <hf25> also
[16:54] <SOPA_Must_Die> FOr a censorship bill
[16:54] <yrtneg> NO IT'S LOSER
[16:54] <tjf> http://youtu.be/1p-TV4jaCMk
[16:54] <pir^2|SOPA|PIPA> ...
[16:54] <yrtneg> oh thats what minecraft says
[16:54] == SOPA_Must_Die has changed nick to AdditionalPylons
[16:54] * pir^2|SOPA|PIPA hates this nick
[16:55] == MaxCoder [u4701@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gzwumjszctqxnrbt] has joined #wikipedia-en
[16:55] == c-moll [~sdgdc@146-52-25-138-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[16:55] == Yumi-chan [~Coolnesse@wikia/Coolnesse] has joined #wikipedia-en
[16:55] == STFUAboutSOPA has changed nick to BarkingFish
[16:55] <yrtneg> pir^2|SOPA|PIPA: change nick to "pirSOPA"
[16:55] == eeekster [~ellis@wikipedia/eeekster] has quit [Quit: Hey! Where'd my controlling terminal go?]
[16:55] <AVRS> In Russian "pipa"/"pipka"/"pipochka" is something small that stands out, like a round button (or something LED-shaped)
[16:56] == pir^2|SOPA|PIPA has changed nick to pirSOPA
[16:56] <Thogo> XD
[16:56] <AVRS> can be used as a light euphemism
[16:56] * hf25 purrs. Soup.
[16:56] <yrtneg> I like trains.
[16:56] == kd3|netbook [~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree] has joined #wikipedia-en
[16:56] <Yumi-chan> Do I get brownie points for accessing Wikipedia web archives?
[16:56] == balrog_phone [~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog] has joined #wikipedia-en
[16:56] <yrtneg> *train kills everyine*
[16:56] <AdditionalPylons> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5e6eG6bXAQ
[16:56] <AVRS> Apparently there is a bunch of homonyms: [[ru:????]]
[16:57] == Coren [~kvirc@wikipedia/Coren] has quit [Quit: You require more Vespene gas]
[16:57] <AVRS> It has interwiki to [[Pipa (disambiguation)]]
[16:57] == Floydian [~chatzilla@142.204.16.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[16:57] <AVRS> and other Pipa's
[16:58] <yrtneg> apiP?
[16:58] == YJohnson [u4495@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ipeqighfpgepudtr] has joined #wikipedia-en
[16:59] == Missingno255 [~Missingno@unaffiliated/missingno255] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[16:59] <AVRS> I asked because on TV they mentioned the funny name. Maybe it's one of the ways of the law namers to divert the attention…
[16:59] <yrtneg> NOOOOOOOOOOO
[16:59] <AVRS> ?
[17:00] == hoo [~hoch_m@wikipedia/Hoo-man] has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:00] <yrtneg> #minecraft is down
[17:00] <yrtneg> I don't know how to remove water
[17:01] <kd3|netbook> empty buckets? fill the area with sand?
[17:01] <pirSOPA> "area"
[17:01] <AdditionalPylons> Too bad admins can't edit
[17:01] <AdditionalPylons> They could clear some serious backlogs during this blackout
[17:01] <pirSOPA> lol
[17:01] <yrtneg> kd3|netbook: ok
[17:01] == Cour|nothere [~chatzilla@wikipedia/courcelles] has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:01] <AdditionalPylons> lmao: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AIV
[17:01] <Damianz> Dunno, the bots are enjoying their day off.
[17:01] == PeterSymonds [~Peter@wikimedia/PeterSymonds] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[17:01] <AdditionalPylons> There's still a person on there
[17:02] == Netalarm [~Netalarm@isr6772.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:02] == Netalarm [~Netalarm@isr6772.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Changing host]
[17:02] == Netalarm [~Netalarm@TechEssentials/Netalarm] has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:02] == PeterSymonds [~Peter@wikimedia/PeterSymonds] has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:02] <AdditionalPylons> Also, >.> (User creation log); 08:02 . . Prodego (talk | contribs)? created new account User:SOPAonWheels! (BECAUSE I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE)
[17:02] <hf25>
[17:02] <hf25> I saw that
[17:02] <Shirik> haha
[17:02] <Prodego> AdditionalPylons: sadly they killed my workaround that would have let me move pages
[17:02] <AdditionalPylons> haha
[17:02] <hf25> !crat
[17:03] <hf25> Hmm.
[17:03] <AdditionalPylons> Is that even a stalk word?
[17:03] <hf25> no
[17:03] <yrtneg> no
[17:03] <hf25>
[17:03] <Prodego> not really, crats don't usually use IRC
[17:03] <hf25> Prodego, can you still block people?
[17:03] <Prodego> hf25: no
[17:03] <hf25> aww
[17:03] <Snowolf> It is a stalkword but not by crats
[17:03] <Keiya> Heh, why is account creation still usable?
[17:03] <Snowolf> it's for me to mock you for using it.
[17:03] <Prodego> rev delete, edit abusefilter, use special:nuke, create accounts
[17:03] <Keiya> Oh, wait, central login >_>
[17:03] <Prodego> that's about it
[17:03] <AdditionalPylons> lol
[17:04] <Prodego> oh and change userrights
[17:04] <Commandhat> special:nuke: o_o
[17:04] <Commandhat> er
[17:04] <Commandhat> special:nuke? o_o
[17:04] <Prodego> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Nuke
[17:04] <hf25> accoutn greation wroks for asdmins only
[17:04] <hf25> It fotld me I coulnt'; use it
[17:04] <hf25> TYPOS
[17:04] <yrtneg> o.o
[17:04] == log [~log@wikimedia/Logan] has quit [Quit: brb]
[17:04] == IShadowed [~IShadowed@pool-71-173-217-20.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:04] == IShadowed [~IShadowed@pool-71-173-217-20.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host]
[17:04] == IShadowed [~IShadowed@wikimedia/IShadowed] has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:04] <Commandhat> OH WHAT
[17:04] <hf25> *account *creation *works *admins *told *couldn't
[17:04] * Aranda56 nukes Prodego
[17:04] <yrtneg> NAAAAA
[17:05] == Purplewowies [93e2c033@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.226.192.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
[17:05] <Commandhat> I have noscript disabling scripts and wikipedia is giving me the blackout notice
[17:05] == Oliphaunte [~fhgsfghd@99-174-94-117.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has left #wikipedia-en []
[17:05] == Excirial [~Excirial@wikipedia/Excirial] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]]
[17:05] <Prodego> Commandhat: well then javascript isn't totally disabled
[17:05] == Tyler_ [~Tyler@adsl-98-93-218-106.owb.bellsouth.net] has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:05] == FAdmArcher|away [u1203@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qphhqrxsyesarfyj] has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:06] <yrtneg> huh
[17:06] == KindOne [KindOne@gateway/shell/trekweb.org/x-glrviwpmueobhyap] has quit [Changing host]
[17:06] == KindOne [KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut] has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:06] == Tyler_ [~Tyler@adsl-98-93-218-106.owb.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[17:06] == fabriceferrer [~fabricefe@ip-170.net-89-3-216.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:07] <Yumi-chan> just use web archives
[17:07] <Yumi-chan> lol
[17:07] <Yumi-chan> if you're so desperate
[17:07] <hoo> or ?action=render
[17:07] <Commandhat> I'm not desperate :v
[17:07] == techman224 [~textual@Wikimedia/Techman224] has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:07] <Commandhat> I have no work to do
[17:07] <hoo> (append that to the url)
[17:07] <Yumi-chan> I am desperate
[17:08] <Submarine> Commandhat, works for me
[17:08] <hf25> or ?banner=none
[17:08] <Yumi-chan> have a report due at 2100
[17:08] == Bensin [~chatzilla@wikimedia/Bensin] has joined #wikipedia-en
[17:08] <RandIter> 21:00 moon time
[17:09] <pakaran> Yumi-chan, i'm a phd student. i've also been a sysop on wikipedia since 2003, and a crat since 2004 or '5. i still wouldn't cite it for anything academic.
[17:09] <pakaran> but that's me.
[17:09] == ambdul|afk [~mabdul@wikipedia/mabdul] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/]
[17:09] <RandIter> that's not the point
[17:09] <pakaran> (I wouldn't cite any other tertiary source either, except under very specific circumstances)
[17:09] <RandIter> yes I'd never cite anything but an original source
[17:09] <RandIter> typically
[17:09] <vallor> yes
[17:09] <vallor> and wikipedia articles have footnotes
[17:09] <vallor> like, duh

This post has been edited by Poor puffed-up popinjay: Wed 29th February 2012, 7:49pm

[Tarc]

Your URLs point to www.en.wikipedia.org, which I assume is incorrect.

[Poor puffed-up popinjay]

Your URLs point to www.en.wikipedia.org, which I assume is incorrect.

Fixed. Thanks Tarc.

This post has been edited by Poor puffed-up popinjay: Wed 29th February 2012, 7:07pm

[cyofee]

Links to the GNAA site wordfilter into links to Wikipedia here on WR. Why that is, I don't know, but I assume the staff must have a reason.

[Poor puffed-up popinjay]

Links to the GNAA site wordfilter into links to Wikipedia here on WR. Why that is, I don't know, but I assume the staff must have a reason.

Fixed using a URL shortener...I hope.