Michigan State offers course on WP adminship, should be an easy A if you suck up to the right people Options

[thekohser]

Thankfully, Obar is not paid on behalf of his work with/for/related to the Wikimedia Foundation or its projects.

[Ego Trippin' (Part Two)]

I'm not complaining about Obar, speaking for myself. I'm just pointing out the absurdity of the situation. I can't imagine trying to attack him, to get him fired or the like. Why? Just because he's an idiot?

Or, more accurately, someone a tad out of his depth?

He's a working academic, someone who affixes "professor" to his name, going around and raving about Wikipedia--to his students. Does the MSU management realize that he's propagandizing, on their dollar, a thing that virtually none of their other professors would even say somewhat-positive things about? Remember, I've talked to professional educators, and every one of them has said that Wikipedia is untrustworthy and can't be used for schoolwork. Obar sticks out like the proverbial hammer-smashed sore thumb. Wiki-cheerleaders are extremely deviant in the world of higher education.

If not the MSU trustees, at least his fellow professors should be aware. Although you're right, he's a temporary adjunct, and will very likely be gone next year. Perhaps this is why they're "putting up" with him.

I agree with Abd; I think that writing a letter to the MSU trustees would be an overreaction. Obar is indeed out of his depth, but is that really surprising? He's only been editing for about a year, and it looks like many if not most of his edits are for facilitating class projects. His edits suggest inexperience, indicating that he probably doesn't know too much about Wikipedia culture and administration. Does he know much more about RfA than is listed on the "community-endorsed" Guide to Passing RfA? I doubt it. He probably knows nothing about how difficult it is to get problem admins desysopped; perhaps he hasn't even heard of ArbCom.

When I had been editing Wikipedia for a year, I was blissfully unaware of the noticeboards, RfA, ArbCom, and most other Wikipedia processes (I knew a little about AfD). My point is that, unless Obar was looking to dive into Wikipedia head-on, he probably didn't learn many of Wikipedia's intricacies. Perhaps he still views admins as a generally benevolent bunch, although hopefully he realizes that most of them are not academics like him!

A better approach in this case would be to expose Obar to some criticisms of Wikipedia and its administration. Trying to convert him would be kinder than trying to get him canned. Also, because he's an academic who might end up writing something important about Wikipedia, it could pay off to give him a different perspective on the site's inner workings.

It's not clear to me what the goal of the course is. The page claims "the main emphasis [is] the study of the Wikipedia social network." Cool. Again, this is a university-level course. Is it going to be university strength? Academically sound? Or will it be puffery for Wikipedia?

Does the professor have any idea of the ethical issues involved in the study of how Wikipedia works? Of what happened on Wikiversity when the study of Wikipedia operation was attempted? Do you study this stuff by looking at primary evidence? Secondary sources? Will he rely, in the study of how Wikipedia administration works, on what administrators say about it, or on what actually happens as shown in editing history and the logs?

I'd say it's pretty unlikely that he knows about what happened on Wikiversity. As for the rest of those questions, I'd be very interested in seeing how Dr. Obar would answer them.

[everyking]

Hopefully, a WR reader will enroll in the course and keep up a constant barrage of questions to the instructor about the contradictions, dichotomies, inconsistencies, and corruption in WP's administrative processes and the almost complete absence of any kind of administrative leadership from the Foundation. What would be even better is if that student was thrown out of class or given a failing grade.

I was thinking it might be very educational if he were to insult and denigrate his students, then kick them out of class. I can't think of a more efficient way to teach the material.

[melloden]

Hopefully, a WR reader will enroll in the course and keep up a constant barrage of questions to the instructor about the contradictions, dichotomies, inconsistencies, and corruption in WP's administrative processes and the almost complete absence of any kind of administrative leadership from the Foundation. What would be even better is if that student was thrown out of class or given a failing grade.

I was thinking it might be very educational if he were to insult and denigrate his students, then kick them out of class. I can't think of a more efficient way to teach the material.

He needs a tag-team partner.

[thekohser]

I was thinking it might be very educational if he were to insult and denigrate his students, then kick them out of class. I can't think of a more efficient way to teach the material.

Everyking is back!

[TungstenCarbide]

I was thinking it might be very educational if he were to insult and denigrate his students, then kick them out of class. I can't think of a more efficient way to teach the material.

Everyking is back!

Hi Everyking!

I just have to remind people here that Everyking lost his adminship for offering to look up deleted wikipedia pages for non-admins if there was a good reason to do so, here on WR. That practice is now commonplace (SBJ, Alison). It took him years to get his adminship back, but he stuck to his principals.

This post has been edited by TungstenCarbide: Tue 7th February 2012, 8:55pm

[Bielle]

I found this today on Gwen Gale's user talk page. I guess he doesn't know enough to teach the course.

(I'll get this link right if it kills us all. Sorry about the series of errors.)

This post has been edited by Bielle: Sat 11th February 2012, 2:46am

[Ego Trippin' (Part Two)]

I found [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gwen_Gale&diff=476128525&oldid=476044965 this] today on Gwen Gale's user talk page. I guess he doesn't know enough to teach the course.

Well, maybe we should ask the man himself. It looks like one Jon Obar just created a WR account.

How are you doing, Jon? What do you know about Wikipedia administrators, and what would you like to discuss and learn? I'm sure the currently active "History of Administrators" thread will be of interest to you.

[thekohser]

I've been in e-mail correspondence with Dr. Obar, and I encouraged him several times to join WR. Glad to see that he's going to take that step. Please treat him kindly, as he says he has not made any final decisions about the value of Wikipedia.

[timbo]

Hopefully, a WR reader will enroll in the course and keep up a constant barrage of questions to the instructor about the contradictions, dichotomies, inconsistencies, and corruption in WP's administrative processes and the almost complete absence of any kind of administrative leadership from the Foundation. What would be even better is if that student was thrown out of class or given a failing grade.

I was thinking it might be very educational if he were to insult and denigrate his students, then kick them out of class. I can't think of a more efficient way to teach the material.

That classroom routine sounds just like one of my best teachers in college... There's no better way to take things up a notch than to burn a couple people who are coasting.


t

[Web Fred]

I've been in e-mail correspondence with Dr. Obar, and I encouraged him several times to join WR. Glad to see that he's going to take that step. Please treat him kindly, as he says he has not made any final decisions about the value of Wikipedia.

And who has made their mind up about the value of Dr Obar?

[TungstenCarbide]

I've been in e-mail correspondence with Dr. Obar, and I encouraged him several times to join WR. Glad to see that he's going to take that step. Please treat him kindly, as he says he has not made any final decisions about the value of Wikipedia.

And who has made their mind up about the value of Dr Obar?

You're an idiot, Cunningly Linguistic.

Greg, I agree it's a good idea to invite these people whatever their opinions on Wikipedia. There's all kinds of things he'll learn here that are censored and forbidden to speak of at Wikipedia.

This post has been edited by TungstenCarbide: Sat 11th February 2012, 11:26pm

[Web Fred]

I've been in e-mail correspondence with Dr. Obar, and I encouraged him several times to join WR. Glad to see that he's going to take that step. Please treat him kindly, as he says he has not made any final decisions about the value of Wikipedia.

And who has made their mind up about the value of Dr Obar?

You're an idiot, Cunningly Linguistic.

Well technically I'm a genius, but you have your viewpoints on everything and I doubt I can dissuade you of any of them.

Given that I am technically a genius I seem to be able to see the hole in the erstwhile Prof's plan, ie given that the average 13 year-old admin took roughly 10 mins, give or take, to suss out how one goes about becoming an admin. Which is of course to:

• Spend about 6 months making friends whilst simultaneously kissing the butts of some of the most power-hungry admins (and of course identifying them in the first place).
• Take on the task of wiki-gnoming to up one's edit count whilst not running into trouble whilst creating content (whatever you do, do not try creating content, you'll only piss people off in the process).
• Just revert obvious vandalism, leave non-obvious vandalism. Don't even try repunctuating anything or you might run into international differences and as a result piss someone off.
• If, in spite of everything, you do accidentally piss off someone, apologise effusively then do your best to make friends with the person.
• Oh yeah, agree with whatever Jimbo says and be as obsequious as possible in the process.
• Then start an RfA in which one only gives answers that are expected and none that involve truth.
• Then sit back and wait for all your 'friends' to !vote your ass into a lifetime of power.

Now how the Prof intends to create a semester course out of that I have no idea, but then some people will do anything for a job...especially gypsy profs. Mind you, he can save himself some ground work and just point his prospective students at this post.

Greg, I agree it's a good idea to invite these people whatever their opinions on Wikipedia. There's all kinds of things he'll learn here that are censored and forbidden to speak of at Wikipedia.

All of which are entirely inconsequential and unimportant in the real world.

[TungstenCarbide]

I've been in e-mail correspondence with Dr. Obar, and I encouraged him several times to join WR. Glad to see that he's going to take that step. Please treat him kindly, as he says he has not made any final decisions about the value of Wikipedia.

And who has made their mind up about the value of Dr Obar?

You're an idiot, Cunningly Linguistic.

Well technically I'm a genius,

maybe you and Ottava have more in common than what first meets the eye.

This post has been edited by TungstenCarbide: Sun 12th February 2012, 2:42am

[SB_Johnny]

I've been in e-mail correspondence with Dr. Obar, and I encouraged him several times to join WR. Glad to see that he's going to take that step. Please treat him kindly, as he says he has not made any final decisions about the value of Wikipedia.

And who has made their mind up about the value of Dr Obar?

You're an idiot, Cunningly Linguistic.

Well technically I'm a genius,

maybe you and Ottava have more in common than what first meets the eye.

Shall we lock him in the whine cellar and watch the cage match?

[Fusion]

Shall we lock him in the whine cellar and watch the cage match?

Would that not be cruelty to children?

(Please do not argue that they are old enough to be deemed adults!)

[Web Fred]

I've been in e-mail correspondence with Dr. Obar, and I encouraged him several times to join WR. Glad to see that he's going to take that step. Please treat him kindly, as he says he has not made any final decisions about the value of Wikipedia.

And who has made their mind up about the value of Dr Obar?

You're an idiot, Cunningly Linguistic.

Well technically I'm a genius,

maybe you and Ottava have more in common than what first meets the eye.

During my Asperger's assessment the psychologist did say that there's a fine line between Asperger's and sociopath and one of the purposes of the assessment is to decide which.

So yes, maybe you are correct... for once.