Racism, On Wikipedia Options

[Fusion]

Not all of them were Jews, of course, but some were.

This reminds me very of the sort of language there was in the USSR under Stalin. The main enemy of the USSR was the capitalists, since obviously the great majorty of the workers, those who had not been anyway brainwashed, supported the USSR. Many of the capitalists were Jews, so in fact this was a Jewish conspiracy organised by the Jewish Trotsky. One of his biggest hate figures was Montagu Norman (T-H-L-K-D), Governor of the Bank of England. I was surprised recently to discover that he was not Jewish.

Anyway, I am disturbed to find Stalinism alive and well and living here.

[Mister Die]

I don't see how Trotsky was said to be involved in a "Jewish conspiracy." The Great Purges were about how Trots and the Right (Bukharinites, etc.) were said to have "collaborated" with Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Poland, the British via Persia and such, and so on. There was no talk of bankers or what have you.

[Ego Trippin' (Part Two)]

so then what's your beef?

the need to explain all the world's problems and issues are the fault of some mafia-pack of wild jews out making $$$ at our expense is just lazy thinking man. it's not even worth debating.

This reminds me very of the sort of language there was in the USSR under Stalin. [...]

I am disturbed to find Stalinism alive and well and living here.

And I am disturbed to find that dispassionately bringing up a historical fact (albeit an unsavory one) here gets me accused of being a Stalinist and having a "beef" (with whom I don't know). If you read my posts and thought that I was implying the existence of a global Jewish conspiracy, I think that says more about you than it does about me. Good day to you both.

[lilburne]

And I am disturbed to find that dispassionately bringing up a historical fact (albeit an unsavory one) here gets me accused of being a Stalinist and having a "beef" (with whom I don't know). If you read my posts and thought that I was implying the existence of a global Jewish conspiracy, I think that says more about you than it does about me. Good day to you both.

When I was a member of the CPGB a number of the secular Jewish member were Stalinists.


They were also anti-Zionist, and were at the front of the queue when it came to confronting the NF and the BNP, during the anti-fascist marches.





This post has been edited by lilburne: Fri 24th February 2012, 2:42pm

[Malik Shabazz]

i dont understand why this appeals to malik.

Have I told you lately that you're an asshole?

[Detective]

Sockhunting by similarity of views is great fun. Take this eccentric piece of politics:

From over here in UK land, Bush was a bad president because he (or his team) were too pushy and heavy-handed, while Obama is a bad president because he is too weak. Netanyahu, for example, has him wrapped around his little finger.

Over here from up close they look very similar.

While Cheney is known to have adored
Electrodes and a waterboard,
Obama loves to send the drones with apps installed on mobile phones,
What an overlord!
Yes, they're cousins, identical cousins, and you'll find,
They sigh alike, ally alike, invade and occupy alike --
And they've lost their minds!
When cousins -- are two of a kind!

It's nearly as daft as the idea that Obama is some sort of socialist! But is it really conceivable that two different people on WR could share it?

[Wikifan]

i dont understand why this appeals to malik.

Have I told you lately that you're an asshole?

NOI is a joke and run by racist trolls.

When I was a member of the CPGB a number of the secular Jewish member were Stalinists.


They were also anti-Zionist, and were at the front of the queue when it came to confronting the NF and the BNP, during the anti-fascist marches.

funny thing about soviet union, they basically wrote the book on modern day anti-zionism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Anti-Zionism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionist_...e_Soviet_Public

some jews thought by forfeiting their jewish identify and pledging allegiance to communism, they would be saved. but they got purged just like everybody else.

This post has been edited by Wikifan: Fri 24th February 2012, 7:40pm

[lilburne]

When I was a member of the CPGB a number of the secular Jewish member were Stalinists.


They were also anti-Zionist, and were at the front of the queue when it came to confronting the NF and the BNP, during the anti-fascist marches.

funny thing about soviet union, they basically wrote the book on modern day anti-zionism.

Yeah I was regional youth organiser for the Party in the 1970s. It wasn't until after I joined that my father started telling me about the organising of the Cable Street resistance back in 1936, three weeks later he was in Paris signed up for the International Brigade and shipped out to Barcelona.

[radek]

I don't see how Trotsky was said to be involved in a "Jewish conspiracy." The Great Purges were about how Trots and the Right (Bukharinites, etc.) were said to have "collaborated" with Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Poland, the British via Persia and such, and so on. There was no talk of bankers or what have you.

I think somebody got their Stalinist purges mixed up. Trotsky was one thing, and yeah, that didn't have much to do with anti-semitism. The anti-semitic purge was the Doctor's Plot.

[Mister Die]

I don't see how Trotsky was said to be involved in a "Jewish conspiracy." The Great Purges were about how Trots and the Right (Bukharinites, etc.) were said to have "collaborated" with Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Poland, the British via Persia and such, and so on. There was no talk of bankers or what have you.

I think somebody got their Stalinist purges mixed up. Trotsky was one thing, and yeah, that didn't have much to do with anti-semitism. The anti-semitic purge was the Doctor's Plot.

Yes, the "plot" and the campaign against "rootless cosmopolitans" definitely had some anti-semitic undertones.

Erik Van Ree in his book The Political Thought of Joseph Stalin notes that, although Stalin was not free of prejudice vis-à-vis Jews, he actually did criticize open anti-semitism, and gives examples for instance of Stalin criticizing those who, in newspapers during the late 40's, would put down someone's original Jewish surnames in brackets next to their present surnames while criticizing them. Stalin's daughter also noted that her father probably didn't believe the charges against the doctors. Both were still odious events, though.

Soviet anti-semitism became widespread in the 70's and 80's. At that point you had some people who were basically just writing about traditional Jewish conspiracy theories (Protocols-type stuff) while employing Soviet terminology and quoting Marx, Engels and Lenin a few times to evade censors.

[Emperor]

They've also got the flag of Sardinia there, which if you believe the Flag of Sardinia article was replaced with a new non-racist flag in 1999.

I don't know much Sardinian history. What's the deal?

[Web Fred]

A great and thought provoking speech from my MP (who usually is a bit of a twat).

I thought you said you DIDN'T live in a Liverpudlian suburb.

I don't, and neither does Kaufman.

[Detective]

I thought you said you DIDN'T live in a Liverpudlian suburb.

I don't, and neither does Kaufman.

Interestingly, CL may be right here, or at least partly right. Mr. Kaufman is MP for the constituency of Manchester Gorton. (For the benefit of Americans, Manchester is a city distinct from Liverpool although in the same general area.) I cannot, however, find Mr. Kaufman's private address so cannot confirm whether it is in Manchester, Liverpool or elsewhere.

[Text]

They've also got the flag of Sardinia there, which if you believe the Flag of Sardinia article was replaced with a new non-racist flag in 1999.

I don't know much Sardinian history. What's the deal?

What's racist about the Moor's head?

The origin of the symbol is unknown, but there seem to be some link to the Crown of Aragon's symbols, because Sardinia was part of the Crown of Aragon, and then part of the Spanish Empire, from 1297 (nominally) to 1720. After that it became part of the Kingdom of Savoy, and then part of the Banana Republic.

Spanish tradition considers the Moor's head a creation of King Peter I of Aragon, to celebrate the victory at Alcoraz (1096). The battle was won with the help of Saint George, whose symbol is a red cross on a white background, and he would have cut off the heads of four Moorish kings.

Sardinian and Pisan tradition links the symbol to the gonfalon which Pope Benedict VIII gave to the Pisans, who were helping the Sardinians against the Saracens of Mujāhid al-ʿĀmirī, who were trying to conquer the italian peninsula and Sardinia.

Some other scholars think the flag of the four Moors may have been created by the Templars.

[jsalsman]

Does anyone remember the 2008 article "Wikipedia on Race" by Nicholas Stix? That is the best item-by-item critique of Wikipedia I've ever seen: http://www.amren.com/ar/2008/07/index.html

Someone should go through all the articles it mentions and see how much got addressed. I just did a quick sampling and it looks like less than half.

[Edit: Nobody took the bait! For the record, I was being sarcastic. Stix is a white power nutcase.]

This post has been edited by jsalsman: Fri 2nd March 2012, 12:26am

[lilburne]

I thought you said you DIDN'T live in a Liverpudlian suburb.

I don't, and neither does Kaufman.

Interestingly, CL may be right here, or at least partly right. Mr. Kaufman is MP for the constituency of Manchester Gorton. (For the benefit of Americans, Manchester is a city distinct from Liverpool although in the same general area.) I cannot, however, find Mr. Kaufman's private address so cannot confirm whether it is in Manchester, Liverpool or elsewhere.

For the benefit of non-UK citizens there is an intense rivalry between certain pairs of UK cities where each views the other as some lesser place. For example after the London Tube bombings the BBC were out interviewing Muslims in Leeds about what they thought about people from the Leeds area being responsible, there were some wonderful Yorkshire accents on display:

No Leeds lads? Nay I can't believe Leeds lads would do that. Not Leeds lads, nay. Bradford! They'd do it!

[Web Fred]

I thought you said you DIDN'T live in a Liverpudlian suburb.

I don't, and neither does Kaufman.

Interestingly, CL may be right here, or at least partly right. Mr. Kaufman is MP for the constituency of Manchester Gorton. (For the benefit of Americans, Manchester is a city distinct from Liverpool although in the same general area.) I cannot, however, find Mr. Kaufman's private address so cannot confirm whether it is in Manchester, Liverpool or elsewhere.

For the benefit of non-UK citizens there is an intense rivalry between certain pairs of UK cities where each views the other as some lesser place. For example after the London Tube bombings the BBC were out interviewing Muslims in Leeds about what they thought about people from the Leeds area being responsible, there were some wonderful Yorkshire accents on display:

No Leeds lads? Nay I can't believe Leeds lads would do that. Not Leeds lads, nay. Bradford! They'd do it!

I'm not in rivalry with anyone. Both cities are rather large water closets. The only difference twixt Manchester and Liverpool is that Scousers use bricks to replace wheels, whereas Manchunians use breeze blocks.

[Emperor]

The more I read the article the more I realize what a steaming pile of crap it is.

The United States, Western Europe, and South Africa take their lumps, little countries like the Dominican Republic and Israel are singled out, but what about:

RUSSIA , TURKEY, and JAPAN

not exactly lightweights in the racism department

(or am I just too mired in the early 20th century)

or

ARGENTINA and BRAZIL

well ok Brazil has a pic of some protester with a clown nose about quotas or something, nevermind a few hundred years of African slavery

[Wikifan]

RUSSIA , TURKEY, and JAPAN

not exactly lightweights in the racism department

(or am I just too mired in the early 20th century)

or

ARGENTINA and BRAZIL

well ok Brazil has a pic of some protester with a clown nose about quotas or something, nevermind a few hundred years of African slavery

this is just my synthesis, but most of the whole "anti-racist" far-left philosophy has less to with about opposing racism and more to do with a deep seated hatred for america. russia was for quite awhile the polar opposite of the US in almost every fashion. that's why many of the old left were gushing supporters of the regime or sympathizers of the various proxies inserted by the soviet union throughout the world.

most muslim countries are painted as victims of the united states and its allies, so they get a pass.

the real puzzler is south africa vs. australia. south africa was hit with international sanctions, but australia was the original apartheid state and south africa's apartheid government was inspired by australia.

australia never ended its apartheid policies until the late 1970s, and today the difference is felt. white australians live to be 80, natives live to be 50 - if they're lucky. i guess south africa fought a few wars during the cold era while australia was mostly passive i guess.

turkey gets a pass because it successfully positions itself as a bulwark of the united states and israel, even though the US has 3,000 troops in turkey and what - 50 nuclear silos?

notice how noam chomsky - the holy cult leader of new left philosophy - has a raging boner for turkey yet totally opposes israel's existence? turkey's colonization of cyprus, turkey's invasion of iraq, turkey's war with the kurds, etc...doesn't matter.

i'm surprised israel only has a few mentions in the article. it is not surprising its mention is not supported by sources:

none of the three refs even mention israel/australia link.

whatever you read in the article i wouldnt take it too seriously. im sure half of its original research/opinion of editors.

This post has been edited by Wikifan: Thu 1st March 2012, 7:38pm

[Emperor]

Makes sense, kind of fits with the wacky Wikipedian view of the world. Rwanda is mentioned only as a link.

Niger takes a hit for deporting 150,000 Arabs in 2006. I never heard that before.