Permabanned for Mantanmoreland Options

[jorge]

I was permabanned yesterday for "outing" Mantanmoreland" as Gary Weiss - how exactly I can have outed him when he's already said he's categorically not Gary Weiss I'm not sure. See the fun here. All the usual suspects were there, Jayjg, Slim, Musical Linguist, Killer Chihuahua, IronDuke, Moshe Constantine etc. etc. etc.

[guy]

Do we commiserate or congratulate ?

[JohnA]

Somebody's lying about Gary Weiss.

[guy]

Somebody's lying about Gary Weiss.

More than one person, possibly.

[jorge]

Do we commiserate or congratulate ?

Well I'm just looking forward to a Weiss Christmas

[TabulaRasa]

A very kind and SlimVirgin-fatigued and to-remain-anonymous admin retreived the deleted AfD debate on Gary Weiss for me and now I know why they wanted it gone: Fred Bauder aknowledges the Mantanmoreland=Gary Weiss connection. Just like that. So I guess they'll be banning Fred soon.

Well at least Fred has Citizendium.

On the topic of the deletion of the Weiss AfD, look at what a weasel Jimbo is. I almost feel sorry for him. Slim and Jayjg have got him by the balls, for sure.

This post has been edited by TabulaRasa: Tue 14th November 2006, 6:24am

[Somey]

There's an interesting chess game being played here, of sorts. To be somewhat fair to Jimbo, I'd have to say he's been painted into a corner: He can't admit that he's ptoecting Weiss's identity without turning the SlimVirgin crown against him, and he obviously can't do that - they're his Number-One "stalking horses," if nothing else! If he loses them, heavens to Betsy, people are going to start thinking a lot of the crap that goes on at Wikipedia might actually be his fault.

The page contained wildly inappropriate speculation that a notable author was sockpuppeting. As I am sure you are aware, many authors have had their careers badly damaged by being caught sockpuppeting at Amazon, etc., and it is deeply wrong for people to ask me to restore a page with such speculations in Wikipedia after the claims have already been investigated and dismissed. If there are further problems in the future, there will be no problem restoring the article at that time. In the meantime, it is my position that MOST AfD pages for living persons or active companies should be courtesy blanked (at a minimum) as a standard process, and deleted in all cases where there was inappropriate commentary. This is not the current policy, but currenty policy does allow for deletions of material which is potentially hurtful to people.

Well that makes the situation quite a bit easier to understand, though I'm curious to learn more. Can you provide a link to the results of the investigation? I'm not finding it on my own.

Hang on. Quoting from the above: "the claims have already been investigated and dismissed" - as we say when asking for sources in articles, "according to whom?". I have no problems with the volunteers that are Wikipedia editors writing an encyclopedia, but they should not be investigating claims like this, and indeed there is no need to do so. WMF Office staff and lawyers might choose to investigate further, but at the encyclopedia level the answer is simple: remove the speculation because it is speculation, not because it is 'true' or 'not true'. Saying that an investigation was carried out means nothing unless you say who carried out the investigation. And it is much simpler to remove stuff like this for two reasons, and two reasons only: (a) unsourced claims; ( potentially libellous claims. These reasons can be assessed regardless of whether 'an investigation' is carried out or not. ie. If unsourced and potentially libellous speculation exists anywhere on Wikipedia (including talk pages and deletion discussions), just remove it. No need for investigations.

So what is Jimbo supposed to do now? I don't think he has any choice at this point but to ignore the question, and the entire issue, until enough time has passed that he can delete the discussion entries and pretend the whole thing never happened... right?

And of course, meanwhile, Weiss continues to use Wikipedia as a personal promotional tool to support his highly questionable beliefs about short-selling of stocks, all with the collusion of the site's most powerful admins.

I still think the whole situation has become a little tedious, though... At this point, whenever I see the words "Gary Weiss" now, I want to get up off the chair and pogo for a while, if only to take my mind off it.

Also, Jorge, I'm sorry to see about the ban and all... But you had to figure that would happen, going after them so directly, right?

Oh well.

[IronDuke]

My condolences. I can be a real asshole, can't I?

[JohnA]

A very kind and SlimVirgin-fatigued and to-remain-anonymous admin retreived the deleted AfD debate on Gary Weiss for me and now I know why they wanted it gone: Fred Bauder aknowledges the Mantanmoreland=Gary Weiss connection. Just like that. So I guess they'll be banning Fred soon.

Well at least Fred has Citizendium.

On the topic of the deletion of the Weiss AfD, look at what a weasel Jimbo is. I almost feel sorry for him. Slim and Jayjg have got him by the balls, for sure.

I hope you've got a copy for future reference.

[LamontStormstar]

Then how's WordBomb fit into the whole thing?

Is WordBomb Gary Weiss? And who was the person who added the personal info that WordBomb wanted and SlimVirgin hid (the info that got Everyking deadmined) was it WordBomb, Gary Weiss, someone else?

[TabulaRasa]

Then how's WordBomb fit into the whole thing?

Is WordBomb Gary Weiss? And who was the person who added the personal info that WordBomb wanted and SlimVirgin hid (the info that got Everyking deadmined) was it WordBomb, Gary Weiss, someone else?

Wordbomb's the guy who brought the freakish relationship between Mantanmoreland and SlimVirgin to our attention. (I assume) he's behind Antisocialmedia.net. I seriously doubt he's Gary Weiss, but one never knows here on this fancy interwebs.

I hate to speak for anybody, but he doesn't seem to post here anymore. Otherwise I'd let him answer.

[LamontStormstar]

I hate to speak for anybody, but he doesn't seem to post here anymore. Otherwise I'd let him answer.

I thought he mighta been banned for getting Everyking desysoped. If not that, he left in shame.

[jorge]

My condolences. I can be a real asshole, can't I?

It's OK IronDuke, I'm sure you aren't entirely responsible for your own ignorance.

[TabulaRasa]

A very kind and SlimVirgin-fatigued and to-remain-anonymous admin retreived the deleted AfD debate on Gary Weiss for me and now I know why they wanted it gone: Fred Bauder aknowledges the Mantanmoreland=Gary Weiss connection. Just like that. So I guess they'll be banning Fred soon.

Well at least Fred has Citizendium.

On the topic of the deletion of the Weiss AfD, look at what a weasel Jimbo is. I almost feel sorry for him. Slim and Jayjg have got him by the balls, for sure.

I hope you've got a copy for future reference.

Of course I did, and I sent a copy to Antisocialmedia.net, and it got posted here.

I'm still trying to find the incivility Jimbo insists was there. Maybe it's because I can't get past Fred Bauder's comment.

This post has been edited by TabulaRasa: Tue 14th November 2006, 8:22pm

[blissyu2]

Apparently one of the main criteria to justify a permaban is that they are a "Regular poster to Wikipedia Review". Or is that just a coincidence?

[Somey]

Is WordBomb Gary Weiss? And who was the person who added the personal info that WordBomb wanted...

See how confusing this is, people? It's madness - madness, I tellya! Anyway, Mantanmoreland is Gary Weiss. WordBomb doesn't like Mantanmoreland/Weiss. One could easily be forgiven for thinking he hates Mantanmoreland/Weiss, who I think we should refer to as "Mantanweissland" from now on, just to help reduce all this confusion.

As for the individual who added the personal info in question, I sincerely hope that wasn't Mr. WordBomb himself, using a sock puppet account. Because as much as I disagree with Everyking about many Wikipedia-related matters (not to mention the merits of Ashlee Simpson's work), I just can't help but like the guy, and the idea that he would lose his position there because WordBomb pretended curiosity about the content of an edit he himself posted would be, shall we say... bad.

Well if he isn't my apologies, however there's a link to IronDuke (on WP)'s contribs + userpage on WP next to IronDuke (on WR)'s ID.

And even more identity confusion! IronDuke, I believe that one of my awesome gnarly admin powarz here is the ability to change usernames. So if you're not the WP IronDuke and you're tired of being confused with same, I could fix it... We could call you "SteelDuke" or "TitaniumDuke." Oooh, I know - IridiumDuke!

Apparently one of the main criteria to justify a permaban is that they are a "Regular poster to Wikipedia Review". Or is that just a coincidence?

Yes, I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

Sometimes I wonder how much it bothers them that I myself am not a registered Wikipedia user, and never have been? No doubt I flatter myself in thinking they might care in the slightest, but it must puzzle them at least a little bit.

But oooh, that's right - I forgot! I'm WordBomb, just like everyone else here! I'm so absent-minded sometimes...

[everyking]

I hate to speak for anybody, but he doesn't seem to post here anymore. Otherwise I'd let him answer.

I thought he mighta been banned for getting Everyking desysoped. If not that, he left in shame.

I don't hold it against him and I told him that, so I hope he didn't leave in shame.

[Jonny Cache]

Iron Duke --> Dux Ferrum --> Ferrous Leader

Qwik !!! B4 somebody else grabs it !!!

See, Kiddies, that 3 years of Latin didn't go entirely to waste !!!

Jonny

[Somey]

Anyhow, thanks for the offer, Somey, but pseudonyms are just that -- pseudo. I'll PM you if I change my mind.

OK... If you want, I can also remove my potentially-unwanted speculations just above this bit. It's no skin off my nose if you want to tweak someone else's, I guess, as long as they're properly deserving of it!

[blissyu2]

I think its cool that we're not totally sure who someone is. Sock puppeting doesn't really matter on a site like this. The worst it can do is to make us think that you are someone who you are not. Wikipedia shouldn't be banning people for what they say on here anyway, so throwing a bit of confusion in there is better.