Rachel Marsden: The Fundamental Schizophrenia of BLP Options

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Before BLP, there was the "Chip Berlet exception" that became precedent in the "Nobs01 and others" ArbCom case. According to this precedent, a person who has a biographical article on Wikipedia can simply become an editor using his real name or something close to it, at which point, any criticism added to the article becomes a violation of WP:NPA. Simple, isn't it? Of course, I'm not 100% certain that they would apply the same reasoning to all editors who have biographical articles.

[Jonny Cache]

Too busy to look up the diffs right now, but if you scan the Wikipedia article and discussion on Citizendium you'll see that the same Wikiprivilege (WikiPrivateLaw) applies to Larry Sanger.

Of course, it's hardly worth our trouble noting all of the private exceptions and personal exemptions to Wikipedia Policy, as the general rule of WP:RAFOP (Rules Are For Other People) covers them all.

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Mon 11th December 2006, 4:23pm

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Of course, it's hardly worth our trouble noting all of the private exceptions and personal exemptions to Wikipedia Policy, as the general rule of WP:RAFOP (Rules Are For Other People) covers them all.

[Kato]

...time to re-cast our eyes over this old thread, seeing as it has become the focus of a ValleyWag expose on Jimbo Wales

http://valleywag.com/362564/transcripts-of...nders-sex-chats

Kelly Martin dishes more dirt on her blog... (the shamless guttersnipe )

http://nonbovine-ruminations.blogspot.com/...ng-in-tree.html

[Kato]

This article gives a basic Jimbo Wales / Rachel Marsden timeline, and ends with

Most recently, a tipster tells us, Wales "sent a mass email to a 'special' Wikipedia list of admins at the beginning of February, right before he was set to spend the weekend with Marsden in DC. Said he wanted her page cleaned up.

http://valleywag.com/362511/how-wikipedia-...immy-wales-laid



Would anyone like to check to discover who "fixed" the article in early February? And we can discover who is on this "special Wikipedia list of admins"...

why no, surely not....

Guess who?

[Derktar]

There's a flurry of JoshuaZ activity as well.

[Kato]

I guess it was this type of thing JzG was ordered to do by Wales.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=189783275

JzG plays down an unsavory allegation made by Marsden against a Canadian official, which was later shown to be false.

[Doc glasgow]

I've just removed badly sourced salacious allegations from Jimmy's talk page. What the truth is, I neither know, nor care. But I'm guessing that those of us who remove Jimbo allegations will be accused of being in some sort of protect-Jimmy evil cabal. So I thought I'd be pre-emptive and strike here.

For the record (and I think my record is reasonable here) I wish to resist all tabloid tittle-tattle, gossip and innuendo on biographies, particularly concerning private information. I don't want to stop and think about whether I like the subject or not. I've defended the rights of subjects as diverse as Daniel Brandt, and Chip Bartlet. I've enforced BLP on the bios of neo-nazis, pedophiles and communists. So, my views on Jimbo don't come into my insistence that badly-sourced personal crap stays out of bios.

Every living person should be able to expect either strict protection of their biography from intrusive rubbish, or (perhaps often better) not to have one in the first place. You should not have to be Jimmy, or sleep with Jimmy, to get decency from wikipedia.

Admittedly, that remains largely my wishful thinking.

[thekohser]

I guess it was this type of thing JzG was ordered to do by Wales.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=189783275

JzG plays down an unsavory allegation made by Marsden against a Canadian official, which was later shown to be false.

JzG, in his typically snake-like role, removed a citation and narrative that cleared the officer.

...The OPP's criminal investigations branch recently cleared the officer of any wrongdoing...

We wouldn't want the sum of all knowledge that doesn't make Jimbo or his mistress look bad to have any citations that exonerate a victim of Jimbo's cyber-lover, now would we?

WAY TO GO, GUY CHAPMAN! Protect your "friend" with selective editing of other people's hard work. You are an asset to the Wikipedia Review, JzG.

P.S. You're not allowed to ask Jimbo about it. Way to go, Squeaker.

[thekohser]

I've just removed badly sourced salacious allegations from Jimmy's talk page. What the truth is, I neither know, nor care. But I'm guessing that those of us who remove Jimbo allegations will be accused of being in some sort of protect-Jimmy evil cabal. So I thought I'd be pre-emptive and strike here.

For the record (and I think my record is reasonable here) I wish to resist all tabloid tittle-tattle, gossip and innuendo on biographies, particularly concerning private information. I don't want to stop and think about whether I like the subject or not. I've defended the rights of subjects as diverse as Daniel Brandt, and Chip Bartlet. I've enforced BLP on the bios of neo-nazis, pedophiles and communists. So, my views on Jimbo don't come into my insistence that badly-sourced personal crap stays out of bios.

Every living person should be able to expect either strict protection of their biography from intrusive rubbish, or (perhaps often better) not to have one in the first place. You should not have to be Jimmy, or sleep with Jimmy, to get decency from wikipedia.

Admittedly, that remains largely my wishful thinking.

Aren't you confusing "biographies" with "Wikipedia Talk pages"?

[Doc glasgow]

Aren't you confusing "biographies" with "Wikipedia Talk pages"?

Quite deliberately, yes. Both are published.

[badlydrawnjeff]

You should not have to be Jimmy, or sleep with Jimmy, to get decency from wikipedia.

Hey, Giano, now we know why you got screwed - you weren't doing the right screwing.

As interesting as this information is - especially w/the Marsden ArbCom case and all the rest - I think people should trek very carefully in these waters.

[thekohser]

For the record (and I think my record is reasonable here) I wish to resist all tabloid tittle-tattle, gossip and innuendo on biographies...

Doc, I don't remember you stepping up when Durova published that I had "given misleading information to journalists that was published in the mainstream press".

Where were you then?

[Daniel Brandt]

You should not have to be Jimmy, or sleep with Jimmy, to get decency from wikipedia.

Admittedly, that remains largely my wishful thinking.

Please, watch your language, Doc. I just had a nightmare about Jimbo's flashlight. You can redeem yourself by killing that redirect again. Maybe JoshuaZ won't fight you this time. He deadminned himself under pressure since last December, and I also googlebombed him.

JoshuaZ voted twice in the DRV on that redirect last December — once as himself (plus incessant comments to keep the redirect), and then once as Gothnic, which was one of his seekrit socks. If he even comes near me again, I'll take it to ArbCom.

I may still file a C & D against the Foundation, since it's supposed to be a "redirect," but in fact the so-called "redirects" on Wikipedia are actually 100 percent substitutions, due to the technical incompetence of the Foundation's software-development employees. If it's not incompetence, then I believe this is done to artificially crank up the Google juice. Chief developer dude Erik Moeller has been on notice now for over a month, but he isn't doing anything about it.

The effect is rather like a googlebomb. Fair is fair. Good luck, Mr. Zelinsky. In the meantime, be sure you don't send your résumé to anyone who uses search engines, because it will just be a waste of your time.

[UseOnceAndDestroy]

For the record (and I think my record is reasonable here) I wish to resist all tabloid tittle-tattle, gossip and innuendo on biographies, particularly concerning private information. I don't want to stop and think about whether I like the subject or not. I've defended the rights of subjects as diverse as Daniel Brandt, and Chip Bartlet. I've enforced BLP on the bios of neo-nazis, pedophiles and communists. So, my views on Jimbo don't come into my insistence that badly-sourced personal crap stays out of bios.

OK, so - just so I'm crystal clear - as soon as this appears in a publication you endorse, its good-to-go for WP publication from your point of view?

Could you provide some examples of publications you'd find acceptable for this? Maybe someone will get to work waving the story under their noses.

Every living person should be able to expect either strict protection of their biography from intrusive rubbish, or (perhaps often better) not to have one in the first place. You should not have to be Jimmy, or sleep with Jimmy, to get decency from wikipedia.

Admittedly, that remains largely my wishful thinking.

Quite.

[Jonny Cache]

Haven't been able to follow all this, but those transcripts looked a bit hoaxy to me. Wouldn't be surprised if they borrowed some from the recent Flap About Motown.

<Insert standard joke about COI Mistress here>

Jonny

[Moulton]

Every living person should be able to expect either strict protection of their biography from intrusive rubbish, or (perhaps often better) not to have one in the first place. You should not have to be Jimmy, or sleep with Jimmy, to get decency from wikipedia.

Admittedly, that remains largely my wishful thinking.

This persistent failure to prevent, avoid, or remediate such breaches of expectations regarding decent treatment from Wikipedia is a systemic and pervasive problem that deserves more attention from those who crafted and maintain such an erratic and irresponsible media enterprise in the first place.

I have said it before, and I'll say it again. Wikipedia fails in this regard because it was crafted without a functional social contract setting forth the mutually agreeable norms together with a functional conflict resolution protocol.

In the absence of such a functional social contract, such breaches of expectations of decency generate a steady stream of liminal social drama, including notorious cases that rise to lunatic social drama.

[Jonny Cache]

This persistent failure to prevent, avoid, or remediate such breaches of expectations regarding decent treatment from Wikipedia is a systemic and pervasive problem that deserves more attention from those who crafted and maintain such an erratic and irresponsible media enterprise in the first place.

I have said it before, and I'll say it again. Wikipedia fails in this regard because it was crafted without a functional social contract setting forth the mutually agreeable norms together with a functional conflict resolution protocol.

In the absence of such a functional social contract, such breaches of expectations of decency generate a steady stream of liminal social drama, including notorious cases that rise to lunatic social drama.

I have said it before and I will say it again. Wikipedia fails to meet your expectations because it was crafted for a different purpose than the one you expect.

Learning depends on the ability to revise one's initial hypothesis.

Jonny

[Moulton]

Do you mean to tell me (and this committee) that Wikipedia has no interest in being a respectable encyclopedia, but rather intends to be a major contender in the fast-growing business of MMPORGs featuring high-energy vexagonistic lunatic scapegoat psychodrama (aka Bloody Hell)?

[Jonny Cache]

Do you mean to tell me (and this committee) that Wikipedia has no interest in being a respectable encyclopedia, but rather intends to be a major contender in the fast-growing business of MMPORGs featuring high-energy vexagonistic lunatic scapegoat psychodrama (aka Bloody Hell)?

I cannot follow the last half of your sentence, but, yes, I think that the dynamic persistence of the system in its observed course demands that we consider the ever-growing-stronger possibility that the The Overseers That Bee In Control Of Wikipedia (TOTBICOW) have a different objective than crafting a quality encyclopedia.

Duh!

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Sat 1st March 2008, 4:25pm