Rachel Marsden: The Fundamental Schizophrenia of BLP Options

[Moulton]

According to my scorecard, Jimbo's biggest fear is having the project fall into disrepute.

Episodes of disrepute seem to be hitting the mainstream press about once a month now.

[Giano]

According to my scorecard, Jimbo's biggest fear is having the project fall into disrepute.

Episodes of disrepute seem to be hitting the mainstream press about once a month now.

There are times when it hard not to feel some form of schadenfreude, and resist the temptation to post an edited version of this http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=173588881 right back on his page. Joking apart, he probably feels pretty stupid, without anyone else needing to rub his nose in it. He's not the first man to be lead by his donger and he certainly won't be the last - so I shall say nothing more.

Giano

[Peter Damian]

the temptation to post an edited version of this http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=173588881 right back on his page.

Sadly many of the diffs connected with that seem to have mysteriously disappeared ('database error').

[Giano]

the temptation to post an edited version of this http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=173588881 right back on his page.

Sadly many of the diffs connected with that seem to have mysteriously disappeared ('database error').

I think "Jimbo and the Arbonauts" will find their current problem rather harder to sweep under the carpet. Picking a mistress is rather like buying a horse, one should study the form before mounting and riding. A fall can be very damaging.

Giano

[AB]

Picking a mistress is rather like buying a horse, one should study the form before mounting and riding. A fall can be very damaging.

That is so sexist.

WOMEN ARE NOT LIKE HORSES!

[Giano]

Picking a mistress is rather like buying a horse, one should study the form before mounting and riding. A fall can be very damaging.

That is so sexist.

WOMEN ARE NOT LIKE HORSES!

FGS - get a life!

Giano

[UseOnceAndDestroy]

For the record (and I think my record is reasonable here) I wish to resist all tabloid tittle-tattle, gossip and innuendo on biographies, particularly concerning private information. I don't want to stop and think about whether I like the subject or not. I've defended the rights of subjects as diverse as Daniel Brandt, and Chip Bartlet. I've enforced BLP on the bios of neo-nazis, pedophiles and communists. So, my views on Jimbo don't come into my insistence that badly-sourced personal crap stays out of bios.

OK, so - just so I'm crystal clear - as soon as this appears in a publication you endorse, its good-to-go for WP publication from your point of view?

Could you provide some examples of publications you'd find acceptable for this? Maybe someone will get to work waving the story under their noses.

Hey, how about http://mashable.com ?? Still too "tabloid" for wp?

Hey, "Doc", how about http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...mtqlBZlhukSa21w ? Will you support that one as a source?

OK, "Doc", now we have this one too.

And this one.

And this, this, and this,

Are we up to three "really"'s yet?

Or is "reliable" just a fig leaf here?

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ne...icle3475722.ece

"Doc"? Are you there, "Doc"?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334652,00.html

Too tabloid for ya, "Doc"? Is any source reliable enough yet?

Of course Doc is gone now. He is behaving exactly according to plan -- see my post about it on the Wikback Graveyard of Disappointed Admins:

He sure is - doing the only thing he can, protecting Jimbo's page.

Your post is spot on - reliabilty, notability: pure smokebombs. The objective is to keep egg off the Spiritual Leader's face and pretend this isn't happening, or isn't important.

They've got their fingers in their ears, and they're singing to themselves. Poor buggers.

This post has been edited by UseOnceAndDestroy: Mon 3rd March 2008, 8:02pm

[AB]

Picking a mistress is rather like buying a horse, one should study the form before mounting and riding. A fall can be very damaging.

That is so sexist.

WOMEN ARE NOT LIKE HORSES!

FGS - get a life!

Giano

In the name of the Unforgettable Butterflies, stop
comparing women to domestic animals!

[thekohser]

Picking a mistress is rather like buying a horse, one should study the form before mounting and riding. A fall can be very damaging.

That is so sexist.

WOMEN ARE NOT LIKE HORSES!

Women? I thought he was talking about ArbCom!

[AB]

Picking a mistress is rather like buying a horse, one should study the form before mounting and riding. A fall can be very damaging.

That is so sexist.

WOMEN ARE NOT LIKE HORSES!

Women? I thought he was talking about ArbCom!

Oh, really?

[thekohser]

He sure is - doing the only thing he can, protecting Jimbo's page.

Your post is spot on - reliabilty, notability: pure smokebombs. The objective is to keep egg off the Spiritual Leader's face and pretend this isn't happening, or isn't important.

They've got their fingers in their ears, and they're singing to themselves. Poor buggers.

Thank you for the compliment. Doc is just having a little trouble moving through PHASE 2 ("this is just a tempest in a teapot"). He'll be saying crazy things for a few hours, such as:

The addition of what? Sure it seems verifiable she slept with a certain person. But do we list the sexual partners of bio subjects? What is it you want to include, and why is it worthy of a bio. We're not a newspaper.--[[User:Doc glasgow|Doc]]^g 19:32, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

...without really thinking through the ramifications.

That's just what Wikipediots do. Let them go. Let it run its course. This will all be worked out, similar to the [[Carolyn Doran]] "article", in about 7 to 10 days.

Greg

[Heat]

I know they are owned by the same outfit (Rupert Murdoch's NewsCorp) but hitting Fox News and the Times of London with the exact same story evokes having a dump truck unload its garbage on the steps of Buckingham Palace.

And look http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/index.html it's the lead story on Fox's Science & Technology page under the headline "Wikipedia Sex Scandal".

[Pumpkin Muffins]

There are times when it hard not to feel some form of schadenfreude, and resist the temptation to post an edited version of this http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=173588881 right back on his page. Joking apart, he probably feels pretty stupid, without anyone else needing to rub his nose in it. He's not the first man to be lead by his donger and he certainly won't be the last - so I shall say nothing more.

Giano

I'm surprised that the sex angle is getting so much play. Sure, it's funnier than hell, and if Jimbo bragges as much about his exploits as Danny says then maybe he deserves it.

But the real story here is $300 bottles of wine and Russian massages that Jimbo tried to stick to the foundation. Danny says Jimbo eventually paid with checks which showed up as "donations". If this is true and Jimbo deducted those "donations" on his income taxes, then it is a very big problem for both Jimbo and the foundation. (Wouldn't we all like to deduct $7,000 of our indulgent squanderings as "donations" with a convenient falsified paper trail.)

[dogbiscuit]

Swiss Jimbo

[Pumpkin Muffins]

There are times when it hard not to feel some form of schadenfreude, and resist the temptation to post an edited version of this http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=173588881 right back on his page. Joking apart, he probably feels pretty stupid, without anyone else needing to rub his nose in it. He's not the first man to be lead by his donger and he certainly won't be the last - so I shall say nothing more.

Giano

I'm surprised that the sex angle is getting so much play. Sure, it's funnier than hell, and if Jimbo bragges as much about his exploits as Danny says then maybe he deserves it.

But the real story here is $300 bottles of wine and Russian massages that Jimbo tried to stick to the foundation. Danny says Jimbo eventually paid with checks which showed up as "donations". If this is true and Jimbo deducted those "donations" on his income taxes, then it is a very big problem for both Jimbo and the foundation. (Wouldn't we all like to deduct $7,000 of our indulgent squanderings as "donations" with a convenient falsified paper trail.)

Wait a minute, I'm an idiot. The Real story here is the COI suggested by their copulation, followed by Jimbo's "worse than" coi quote - poisoning the very heart of wikpedia's neutrality by its Sole founder, no less.

jimbo.wales: and therefore not appropriate for me to directly edit the article with a conflict of interest
jimbo.wales: the truth is of course a much worse conflict of interest than that but that will do

Gosh, there's just so much here my tiny mind can barely grapple

This post has been edited by Pumpkin Muffins: Mon 3rd March 2008, 9:32pm

[No one of consequence]

There are times when it hard not to feel some form of schadenfreude, and resist the temptation to post an edited version of this http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=173588881 right back on his page. Joking apart, he probably feels pretty stupid, without anyone else needing to rub his nose in it. He's not the first man to be lead by his donger and he certainly won't be the last - so I shall say nothing more.

Giano

I'm surprised that the sex angle is getting so much play. Sure, it's funnier than hell, and if Jimbo bragges as much about his exploits as Danny says then maybe he deserves it.

But the real story here is $300 bottles of wine and Russian massages that Jimbo tried to stick to the foundation. Danny says Jimbo eventually paid with checks which showed up as "donations". If this is true and Jimbo deducted those "donations" on his income taxes, then it is a very big problem for both Jimbo and the foundation. (Wouldn't we all like to deduct $7,000 of our indulgent squanderings as "donations" with a convenient falsified paper trail.)

Wait a minute, I'm an idiot. The Real story here is the COI suggested by their copulation, followed by Jimbo's "worse than" coi quote - poisoning the very heart of wikpedia's neutrality by its Sole founder, no less.

No, you were right the first time. In the real world, no one cares whether Jimbo influenced Marsden's bio. That's just so much Wikipedia (and Wikipedia Review) narcissism and naval-gazing.

However, the financial shenanigan story apparently dates to the audit of 2 years ago when Danny was still at his old post, so its not really relevant to this story and is a bit stale to boot. Too bad, too. WR could make better use of whatever power it has to ignore this story and try to bring new light to the older financial issue.

[Kato]

No, you were right the first time. In the real world, no one cares whether Jimbo influenced Marsden's bio. That's just so much Wikipedia (and Wikipedia Review) narcissism and naval-gazing.

However, the financial shenanigan story apparently dates to the audit of 2 years ago when Danny was still at his old post, so its not really relevant to this story and is a bit stale to boot. Too bad, too. WR could make better use of whatever power it has to ignore this story and try to bring new light to the older financial issue.

What a load of crap.

Folks cared about Jimbo editing his own biography a couple years ago -- it was all over the media. And this time round, plenty of people are interested in Jimbo's influence over Marsden's bio. Here's one such example.

http://poligazette.com/2008/03/03/wikipedias-authority/

No one of consequence, you are naive, wrong and you merely try to spin away almost all the key issues that come round. A classic Wikipedian. I imagine you were one of the people on Essjay's talk page spinning away there, "I don't have a problem with that..." etc. Nothing to see here etc. Story a bit stale etc. Or berating us for having the temerity to believe it actually meant something. Blaming us for Wikipedia's failures.

WR could make better use of whatever power it has to ignore this story and try to bring new light to the older financial issue.

You're a member here. You first.

[Doc glasgow]

Let's be clear.

1) I don't care who Jimbo has sex with - so he may be a letch, did I expect more? 2) The COI is bullshit. I can't see anything that was done to the article that shouldn't have been done under BLP anyway. Jimbo often asks OTRS to clean things up - and WR is at its best when in complains that cleanups don't happen quickly enough - not when it complains they happen too quickly.

3) The story is certainly news now. Not so much because it is sex, but because Mr Wiki (apparently) had the ill-judgement to dump neo-celebrity on wiki and she (predictably) retaliated (on e-bay). That's news that not even the London Times can resist. And this story probably has legs yet. It will almost certainly end up in Jimmy's bio. But (and this is something I fight for on many bios) BLPs are not news aggregaters. Because it's newsworthy this week doesn't make it encyclopedic. Whether this story has any durable importance in terms of recording Wales's bio, remains to be seen.

My guess is that Danny's allegations will prove more significant. But that's a guess, and till Jimmy and the WMF respond (as they must) we won't know what that significance is. WP:NOT a crystal ball etc.

Will any of this be significant in a week? Who knows? we can only speculate?

Anyway, the discussion will no doubt continue here (and on the official mailing lists .... if I can find it?) ....

[Saltimbanco]

Idle question: did Wikipedia pay for Jimbo to fly to New York in order to get his freak on?

[gomi]

Let's be clear. ... The COI is bullshit. I can't see anything that was done to the article that shouldn't have been done under BLP anyway. Jimbo often asks OTRS to clean things up ...

I don't know why you guys don't get it -- a reputable encyclopedia cannot be run by a "God-King". The issue may not be COI impropriety, but more the appearance of impropriety.

Jimbo's exalted status within Wikipedia, coupled with the lack of a viable and structured management system there, casts the whole enterprise into disrepute. Your arguments about BLP and whatnot ring hollow -- the differing treatment of (e.g.) Daniel Brandt and Rachel Marsden bear witness to this.