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> Brandt's article deleted, undeleted, stubbed, ad infinitum..., The BLP war era continues
Alex
post Fri 23rd February 2007, 4:36pm
Post #41


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So it's gone now. Deleted by Yanksox, speedily endorsed by our friend Gaillimh. Three cheers all round? cool.gif
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Somey
post Sat 3rd March 2007, 2:05am
Post #42


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Yes, this is typical, even classic, Wikipedia. Evil always wins, because evil is what gets rewarded there, I'm afraid... It's the quickest way to the top!

Having said that, I realize that at least two of our own members here at WR are actively arguing and voting in favor of this very evil. That's unfortunate, of course, but it would be wrong of me to treat them any differently here simply because they appear to be evil. Unfortunately, I'm also a highly moral kinda guy, so I can't just do nothing... Tellyawhat, from now on, instead of referring to them here as "Mr. So-and-So," I'll instead refer to them as "Evil So-and-So," with the boldface included (assuming I remember to do it). Sorry about that in advance, but hopefully they'll get the message one of these days! smile.gif

This latest bit of horse-shit started with User:Zocky, an administrator from Slovenia who just couldn't wait to resolve the whole crazy "Brandt issue" - or, more accurately, felt that all the attention focused on the Brandt article was drawing too much attention away from User:Zocky. Heaven forbid!

Zocky, who normally writes about Slovenia, and Balkan history and affairs in general, and who also started the article on the Assassination_of_Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand, proposed that the Brandt article be "stubified" and merged with some related articles, not unlike Mr. Bain's suggestion earlier in this thread. However, this apparently meant changing the article about Wikipedia Watch back into an actual article instead of a redirect. User:SlimVirgin certainly wasn't having any of that! Oh well, that's another name for the Slimmy Shit List... Sorry, Zocky! Don't let the door hit you in the - oh, never mind.

Still, let's take a look at Zocky's reasoning here. He includes, in his section on the "case for keeping" the article, this bit:

QUOTE
Deleting information about his public actions because of his pestering would send the wrong message and set a bad precedent. Giving in to bullying would also hurt our collective pride.

Now, obviously this is a completely partisan statement, using connotative terms like "pestering" and "bullying," both of which are as ridiculous now as they have been in the past. However, if Wikipedia is susceptible to being dominated by the culture of moral relativism, why not the culture of victimization, too? Makes perfect sense!

Still, for a top ten website that's mentioned in the media almost constantly to claim that one obscure guy is "bullying" them, and for them to worry about their "collective pride" being hurt, well... that's just silly, isn't it?

Zocky goes on to cite four "facts" which he claims are "crucial":

QUOTE
- he is notable
- we will not give in to bullying
- we can't write a proper article about him
- there is no good single place to redirect

These facts preclude keeping, deleting and redirecting. The only possible solution left is disambiguate. Since this obviously can't be literally disambiguated, I decided to split, merge, stub and protect.

It's a good example of "Wikipedian Logic," which really should have its own article too, at this point... I'll have to write that for Uncyclopedia, though, since they'll just delete it on Wikipedia. I don't think my ego could take that. Also, I don't have an account...

Anyhoo, the real issue isn't what was on Zocky's list of four crucial facts, it's what wasn't on the list:

- Any notion of "notability" is outweighed in moral terms by the fact that WP is publicly editable
- WP (and a handful of users in particular) has bullied Brandt and others since Day One
- WP does not need an article about Brandt or, for that matter, anyone else
- Brandt has successfully harmed WP overall and continues to do so, disrupting the project
- The lack of a "single place to redirect" has never stopped WP from deleting articles in the past

Still, as I mentioned earlier, Zocky's proposal was an improvement, despite the incompleteness of its rationale.

Unfortunately, it still wasn't good enough for newly-minted admin User:Isotope23, whose only original article for WP was about a 1950's-era folk song called "Plastic_Jesus." (Roughly 80 percent of his edits appear to be AfD votes.) As everyone could see, Zocky's proposal had one tragic and fatal flaw: It failed to account for Isotope23's passionately caring sense of humanitarianism! Tellingly, in his RfA, which passed 83/0/0 (I guess they like people who vote in lots of AfD's!), he wrote:

QUOTE(User:Isotope23 @ 18:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC))
When I've acted boldly and been wrong I've apologized and worked with other editors to get it right.
Hmmm. He must'a been drunk!

Earlier today, Isotope23 left a note for Mr. Bain which, while very politely worded, essentially said "OMFG PWNED":
QUOTE(User:Isotope23 @ 18:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC))
I know your DRV close notes indicated this would go through AfD in a week, but the article was turning into a battleground of speedy deletion nominations, [[WP:IAR]] stub/protect actions and other related editing that was, at least in my fairly outside opinion, a deteriorating situation. That said, I've gone ahead and nominated it for AfD as a procedural action with a request that the AfD be allowed to go the full 5 days with no [[WP:SNOW]] or other early closures. Just thought I'd let you know. Cheers!

I guess seniority and administrative experience doesn't count for much these days, eh, Stephen? Sorry to see that happening. (And y'know, it's funny how Yanksox is still the only admin who's been indefinitely desysopped for "wheel-warring," isn't it?) Anyway, cheers!

So, the AfD proceeded with no advance announcement, no special anti-abuse rules, and no attempted assurances of fairness whatsoever. In fact, the associated talk page, containing a list of the article's references, was nothing more than spam to obtain more "keep" votes. This ensured that the people who normally monitor AfD would vote first, and vote "keep" - giving the impression of a "snowball effect" - in other words, an obvious and blatant attempt to demoralize and silence the opposition, standard tactics used by those lacking moral or even logical justification for their actions.

Situations like this remind me (as if I needed reminding) of why I'm here, and indeed, why most of us are here. Evil must always be fought, and ultimately it must be crushed. And frankly, no amount of bashing is sufficient for people like this.

Whew! That was a long one...
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Posts in this topic
Alex   Brandt's article deleted, undeleted, stubbed, ad infinitum...   Fri 23rd February 2007, 4:36pm
gomi   Bravo. Now I want a box seat for the inevitable w...   Fri 23rd February 2007, 4:53pm
Alex   Bravo. Now I want a box seat for the inevitable ...   Fri 23rd February 2007, 4:55pm
Somey   ...I expect it'll produce a similar result. Si...   Fri 23rd February 2007, 5:12pm
taiwopanfob   I think there's actually reason for optimism ...   Fri 23rd February 2007, 5:42pm
thekohser   This is an excellent opportunity for Wales to ac...   Fri 23rd February 2007, 8:26pm
Anonymouse   Now it's on WP:DRV, and staying deleted. Here...   Fri 23rd February 2007, 5:41pm
No one of consequence   Well, so far they're holding a clusterfuck ove...   Fri 23rd February 2007, 5:45pm
Unrepentant Vandal   Well, so far they're holding a clusterfuck ov...   Fri 23rd February 2007, 6:25pm
Alkivar   Look Jimbo wading in is probably a bad idea... we ...   Fri 23rd February 2007, 8:35pm
anon1234   The best thing that could happen is a public disco...   Fri 23rd February 2007, 9:10pm
a view from the hive   The best thing that could happen is a public disc...   Sat 24th February 2007, 12:38am
LamontStormstar   Brandt's notable for mainly that Seigler(sp?) ...   Sat 24th February 2007, 2:14am
Somey   Brandt's notable for mainly that Seigler(sp?) ...   Sat 24th February 2007, 2:35am
a view from the hive   Brandt's notable for mainly that Seigler(sp?)...   Sat 24th February 2007, 2:59am
thebainer   [quote name='LamontStormstar' post='23493' date='...   Mon 26th February 2007, 7:32am
Somey   I dunno, Stephen... There seems to be almost no po...   Mon 26th February 2007, 5:02pm
Somey   But what about the time in 1997 when he balanced 1...   Sat 24th February 2007, 4:09am
a view from the hive   But what about the time in 1997 when he balanced ...   Sat 24th February 2007, 4:13am
Somey   Try the truth, it looks better :) Do you have reli...   Sat 24th February 2007, 5:21am
a view from the hive   Try the truth, it looks better :) Do you have rel...   Sat 24th February 2007, 6:27am
the fieryangel   Regardless of HOW the article was deleted, the fac...   Sat 24th February 2007, 11:01am
guy   Wikipedia tries to contain only factual informati...   Sat 24th February 2007, 11:33am
Herschelkrustofsky   Wikipedia tries to contain only [b]factual inform...   Sat 24th February 2007, 4:04pm
guy   No doubt I'll be accused of partisanship, but ...   Mon 26th February 2007, 8:29pm
Somey   No doubt I'll be accused of partisanship, but ...   Mon 26th February 2007, 9:24pm
Somey   As predicted, the article's back, with the DRV...   Wed 28th February 2007, 6:47pm
Daniel Brandt   The thing that strikes me about this DRV, as well ...   Wed 28th February 2007, 8:14pm
Truth Man   It's a video game, and those who happen to je...   Thu 1st March 2007, 3:48am
badlydrawnjeff   I'm pleasantly surprised, even if it's onl...   Wed 28th February 2007, 8:20pm
gomi   Doc Glasgow has quit, citing in part the Brandt wh...   Wed 28th February 2007, 10:20pm
thebainer   As I've often done, I just want to redundantl...   Thu 1st March 2007, 12:27am
a view from the hive   I plan to close it. I seem to do fairly well at c...   Thu 1st March 2007, 1:01am
Daniel Brandt   I plan to close it. I seem to do fairly well at c...   Thu 1st March 2007, 1:49am
everyking   As I've often done, I just want to redundant...   Thu 1st March 2007, 7:10am
Daniel Brandt   you should set a percentage figure in advance for...   Thu 1st March 2007, 7:19am
a view from the hive   [quote name='everyking' post='23845' date='Thu 1s...   Sun 4th March 2007, 4:23am
Cobalt   Keep Per SlimVirgin! --Kevin Murray 01:19, 3 ...   Sun 4th March 2007, 5:33am
thebainer   Due to the views you're expressing in this po...   Thu 1st March 2007, 2:26pm
everyking   Due to the views you're expressing in this p...   Thu 1st March 2007, 3:14pm
Somey   It's probably pointless to discuss this like i...   Thu 1st March 2007, 5:37am
Jonny Cache   ... slim majority ... Good one !!! ...   Thu 1st March 2007, 5:44am
Daniel Brandt   How many votes in a slim majority ??? One, althou...   Thu 1st March 2007, 6:05am
a view from the hive   How many votes in a slim majority ??? One, altho...   Thu 1st March 2007, 6:50am
JohnA   If the Daniel Brandt article has been deleted then...   Thu 1st March 2007, 3:33pm
guy   If the Daniel Brandt article has been deleted the...   Thu 1st March 2007, 6:01pm
Jonny Cache   [quote name='JohnA' post='23863' date='Thu 1st Ma...   Fri 2nd March 2007, 5:06pm
Somey   The [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title...   Fri 2nd March 2007, 6:25pm
Jonny Cache   The [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit...   Fri 2nd March 2007, 6:54pm
JohnA   I find myself wondering what the point of getting ...   Fri 2nd March 2007, 9:58pm
Daniel Brandt   You should see what they're pulling now with m...   Fri 2nd March 2007, 10:51pm
Jonny Cache   You should [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki...   Fri 2nd March 2007, 11:01pm
Daniel Brandt   Somey, that was a brilliant summary. I guess it pa...   Sat 3rd March 2007, 4:35am
Jonny Cache   Somey, that was a brilliant summary. I guess it p...   Sat 3rd March 2007, 5:06am
Somey   Shall I interpret this to mean you don't see a...   Sat 3rd March 2007, 5:53am
Jonny Cache   Look, for you all know, there's wackos on Usen...   Sat 3rd March 2007, 7:04am
Alkivar   For whatever its worth Mr. Brandt... When this w...   Sat 3rd March 2007, 9:28am
Daniel Brandt   For whatever its worth Mr. Brandt... When this ...   Sat 3rd March 2007, 1:23pm
Somey   I just discovered that SlimVirgin is [url=http://e...   Sat 3rd March 2007, 6:36pm
Jonny Cache   I just discovered that SlimVirgin is resurrecting...   Sat 3rd March 2007, 7:24pm
The Joy   The only way Mr. Brandt's article will be dele...   Sun 4th March 2007, 12:25am
Daniel Brandt   This AfD was frontloaded with mysterious sockpuppe...   Sun 4th March 2007, 5:45am
Somey   This AfD was frontloaded with mysterious sockpuppe...   Sun 4th March 2007, 6:24am
Cobalt   My thoughts against this theory are, would you h...   Sun 4th March 2007, 6:03am
Anonymouse   Someone's offering a bounty for FA status on i...   Mon 5th March 2007, 1:27am
Somey   Someone's offering a bounty for FA status on i...   Mon 5th March 2007, 2:03am
Anonymouse   Someone's offering a bounty for FA status on ...   Tue 6th March 2007, 1:12am
Yanksox   Someone's offering a bounty for FA status on ...   Tue 6th March 2007, 12:22am
Anonymouse   [quote name='Anonymouse' post='24142' date='Mon 5...   Tue 6th March 2007, 1:23am
Somey   [b]FULL DISCLOSURE: I AM INDEED abeg92. :ph34r: ...   Tue 6th March 2007, 1:55am
Anonymouse   [quote name='Anonymouse' post='24260' date='Mon 5...   Tue 6th March 2007, 12:04pm
Truth Man   [quote name='Somey' post='24266' date='Mon 5th Ma...   Tue 6th March 2007, 12:51pm
Somey   I voted keep because of the ungodly huge list of s...   Tue 6th March 2007, 3:59pm
Daniel Brandt   For the record, less than an hour ago I added this...   Sun 11th March 2007, 9:25pm
Alex   Six minutes later, JoshuaZ deleted my comment and...   Sun 11th March 2007, 9:31pm
Yanksox   [quote name='Daniel Brandt' post='24810' date='Su...   Sun 11th March 2007, 9:57pm
Jonny Cache   For the record, less than an hour ago I added thi...   Sun 11th March 2007, 10:38pm
Somey   No. His personal opinion is irrelevant, the AfD is...   Sun 11th March 2007, 10:32pm


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