Can Jayjg be stopped?, Middle-aged management guy, or wacky teenager? Options

[Jonny Cache]

Right — the ArbCom is more like the Belaboured Party ...

Anyway, it looks like Jayjg isn't really doing much that's interesting at the moment, at least since they locked down the "New Antisemitism" article for the what, 54th time?

It seems to me they could end all the warring over that article with a simple page move. Instead of "New antisemitism", they should just call it "Allegations by high-ranking Wikipedians of liberal complicity in antisemitic activities", and then everyone could agree, right? As long as the phrase "by high-ranking Wikipedians" was in there, they wouldn't even need the word "Unfounded" at the beginning of the title.

But that would violate WP:Avoid Source Responsibility.

Besides, they already have Pallywood, Universities and Antisemitism, and, last alphabetically but far from least, Zombietime, an article created by the Single Purpose Account Manager of all time, Zombiefan ...

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Wed 28th March 2007, 5:21pm

[FNORD23]

Right — the ArbCom is more like the Belaboured Party ...

Anyway, it looks like Jayjg isn't really doing much that's interesting at the moment, at least since they locked down the "New Antisemitism" article for the what, 54th time?

It seems to me they could end all the warring over that article with a simple page move. Instead of "New antisemitism", they should just call it "Allegations by high-ranking Wikipedians of liberal complicity in antisemitic activities", and then everyone could agree, right? As long as the phrase "by high-ranking Wikipedians" was in there, they wouldn't even need the word "Unfounded" at the beginning of the title.

But that would violate WP:Avoid Source Responsibility.

Besides, they already have Pallywood, Universities and Antisemitism, and, last alphabetically but far from least, Zombietime, an article created by the Single Purpose Account Manager of all time, Zombiefan ...

Jonny

Well - at least I got a chance to tangle with Slim Virgin and JayJG and expose their blatant attempts to use OR and completely disregard WP - before I got banned for a year !

FaAfA

[Somey]

Well - at least I got a chance to tangle with Slim Virgin and JayJG and expose their blatant attempts to use OR and completely disregard WP - before I got banned for a year !

That was you? I was going to start a new thread on that, but we've been so busy around here lately with all the other examples of WP-related badness... In fact, we're really sort of back-logged at this point!

Maybe you'd rather I didn't start one, though? There's a risk they might just extend the ban for 29 more years.

[FNORD23]

Well - at least I got a chance to tangle with Slim Virgin and JayJG and expose their blatant attempts to use OR and completely disregard WP - before I got banned for a year !

That was you? I was going to start a new thread on that, but we've been so busy around here lately with all the other examples of WP-related badness... In fact, we're really sort of back-logged at this point!

Maybe you'd rather I didn't start one, though? There's a risk they might just extend the ban for 29 more years.

Doesn't bother me if you do. I was the one following WP - SV and JG weren't. I almost couldn't believe it when SV suggested that somone contact the university to see if they used Zombie's photo, so her OR would be even more 'original' !

I tell 'ya. That really shocked me. To see an admin like SV and her cohort JG completely disregard rock-solid WP so they could keep a superfulous trvial reference was mindboggling.

[anon1234]

I've been thinking about Jayjg's claim to be in his mid-40s and in management. I doesn't seem to fit with the evidence we've collected on this guy, particularly the points below:

• Jayjg is known to edit primarily from home (which is somewhere near Toronto, Canada the evidence indicates.) While some professionals can work from home, it is incredibly hard to engage in "management" from home.
• Jayjg is often childish in his edit warring. He seems much more immature than a 40 year old, let alone someone chosen for management (which requires well developed interpersonal skills.)
• Jayjg has a lot of free time on his hands (as indicated by his position on ArbCom, his frequent CheckUser work, his oversight work and his frequent admin policing work), which means he doesn't have a family to take care of (no need to take the kids to soccer games or other such things) and that his "job" is not very demanding.

We have already established that some of Jayjg's claims have been false, particularly his claim that he is based in NYC, he is clearly not based in NYC but rather Ontario, Canada as evidenced from multiple IP sightings. I think it is time to start to question Jayjg's other claims...

The fact that Jayjg edits from home, that he displays a lot of immaturity in his "conflict resolution style" (if you want to call it that) and his "job" doesn't seem very demanding suggests to me that Jayjg doesn't have a real job nor is he in his 40's, this is just a set of convenient misrepresentations. Jayjg is probably more similar to Essjay, he's probably quite young and a student (or drop-out like Essay) who edits in his ample free time.

In the wake of the Essjay scandal, I ask the foundation and Jayjg to publicly confirm that he is in fact over the age of 40 and that he works in NYC and to also explain away the significant and growing evidence to the contrary. It may be that Jayjg has lied to the foundation as well about who he is, this lie being just another component in Jayjg's online fantasy role playing game.

[Skyrocket]

It's just a hunch, but I think he's probably a multi-degreed tenured professor at a Catholic institution, hiding his identity to avoid retaliation from the cabal at the Vatican, while doing wonderful work For the Good of Wikipedia and All Mankind.

Or maybe he's another twentysomething who's spent too much of his life in fantasy role playing games.

[guy]

Certainly his current antics on List of Russian Jews, where he is threatening to wreck the list in retaliation for some dimwit repeatedly trying to add Lenin, don't smack of maturity. He even deleted Zinoviev, noting that there was somebody on the list whose father but not mother was Jewish, and every time he found such a name he would delete it and the name of an undoubted Jew.

Also, he is generally regarded as an orthodox Jew, but doesn't seem to realise that Jewish editors are slightly busy at present with the run-up to Passover so don't have time to join in his games. How would any adult Jew not appreciate that?

[anon1234]

Any clue what's up between Henrygb, Jayjg and the rest of the ArbCom? Probably not if you're not privy to the ArbCom mailing list. Lots of intrigue. Henrygb dates back to November 2003:

• User_talk:Henrygb#E-mail
• User_talk:Henrygb#Please_contact_ArbCom

Maybe someone should ask the ArbCom, whose members describe Jayjg as a former member in "good standing", to investigate whether Jayjg has been lying about his identity? I don't think Jayjg is in as "good standing" as they currently have been led to believe.

[Somey]

Why clue what's up between Henrygb, Jayjg and the rest of the ArbCom? Lots of intrigue...

Yikes! It looks like User:Henrygb did the unthinkable - he actually went through and analyzed, bit by bit, the ways in which SlimVirgin changed the RS, V, and NOR policies when "synthesizing" them into WP:ATT. And he wasn't impressed!

He then had the temerity to question Slimmy's rewording of WP:RS, and even went to the extent of adding a question to the Attribution policy poll. So when that was removed, he got fed up with it and left an exasperated-sounding "I give up" message.

So now, they're presumably going to accuse him of using a sock puppet or two in order to ban him, just in case he was thinking about changing his mind and returning to the discussion - or decides to post some sort of userspace essay about the situation that might cast aspersions on Slimmy's & Jayjg's motives. The last thing they want is to have someone around who's actually been paying attention to what they've been up to!

I wonder who they're going to accuse him of being...? I mean, he's only been a WP user for 4 years, which isn't anywhere near enough time to warrant his being given more respect or courtesy than someone who's been there a whole nine weeks like User:DennyColt. Ol' Denny has essentially taken over the whole thing at this point, looks like! Pretty soon, they'll have to rename it "Dennypedia."

[Jonny Cache]

I think it's pretty clear that most of them already know who DennyColt really is.

And since when did lying about your identity, or anything else, remove a WikiPimp from good standing with Wikipedia?

Like the Spartans — no, the original Spartans — they encourage lying, cheating, and stealing as essential skills of the expert combatant, and regard the purpose of punishment solely as a lesson on the evils of getting caught.

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Tue 3rd April 2007, 1:25pm

[gomi]

Any clue what's up between Henrygb, Jayjg and the rest of the ArbCom?

Henrygb is officially toast: he's been banned and told to ceremonially commit seppuku. He dared to oppose Slim and Jayjg, an offense for which he was investigated. Once you are investigated, they will find something, just like the Stasi in Eastern Germany. One suspects that User:ChrisO is next, despite the hasty deletion of this comment.

As Jayjg is literally reading the ArbCom's mail, it is hard to know how anyone will get the upper hand on him.

[taiwopanfob]

Henrygb is officially toast

Reading the lead-up to this, I get the impression Henrygb was forcing them to do it. If so, he may well be as amazed they didn't wait for the ATT poll stuff to blow over before the inevitable retaliation. Heck, all his shit-raising may have had no effect anyways!

But the act is quite incredible nonetheless. The mindset that can claim it has "nothing to do with ATT" is about as sensible as an argument that the World Trade Center wasn't knocked flat to the ground by terrorists, but some sort of really bad building fire. A kind of officially mandated stupidity one expects of huge, monolithic, bureaucracies in government, not some kind of shoe-string database project.

Also note that SlimVirgin wanted to talk to Audiovideo (see AV's talk-page) a day before. Is it known she in on the ArbCom loop as well? The poor woman is now reduced to damage control, pounding as hard as she can trying to further drive a Wedge of Idiocy between cause and effect. A more sympathetic viewpoint is that she may be pretty pissed though, acting as the cleaning lady for the ArbCom. Unpaid at that!

[everyking]

Any clue what's up between Henrygb, Jayjg and the rest of the ArbCom?

Henrygb is officially toast: he's been banned and told to ceremonially commit seppuku. He dared to oppose Slim and Jayjg, an offense for which he was investigated. Once you are investigated, they will find something, just like the Stasi in Eastern Germany. One suspects that User:ChrisO is next, despite the hasty deletion of this comment.

As Jayjg is literally reading the ArbCom's mail, it is hard to know how anyone will get the upper hand on him.

Leaving aside the question of whether the sockpuppet accusation is accurate, he hasn't been banned. He was merely asked to resign adminship. That's a lot more cordial than the way they removed my adminship.

[Heat]

He's also been blocked at least until he contacts the ArbComm.

What all this shows is that if Slim and Jay can't defeat someone's argument through facts and logic they'll do it by trying to discredit the person himself.

Some questions here:

1. It looks like Slim knew what was going on before anything was publicly posted. Does this mean Jayjg shared Checkuser info with her?

2. How was this sockpuppetry uncovered? Was Jayjg arbitrarily going through the list of opposition voters at ATT to try to diminish the count? Did he do the same to "yes" voters?

3. Does Jayjg still enjoy the confidence of the community to the degree that he can be a virtual ex-officio on the ArbComm?

[taiwopanfob]

He was merely asked to resign adminship.

... like how a mugger is "merely asking" for your wallet.

[anon1234]

1. It looks like Slim knew what was going on before anything was publicly posted. Does this mean Jayjg shared Checkuser info with her?

Jayjg and SlimVirgin often operate together, piss one off and you have to deal with the other.

2. How was this sockpuppetry uncovered? Was Jayjg arbitrarily going through the list of opposition voters at ATT to try to diminish the count? Did he do the same to "yes" voters?

It is standard practice to find all the ways in which you can undermine those opposing you. Notice that no one is questioning the very suspicious User:DennyColt account (whom we suspect istemporarily believed might have been User:Terryeo) because he is onside with Jayjg and SlimVirgin on the big WP:ATT clusterf**k.

3. Does Jayjg still enjoy the confidence of the community to the degree that he can be a virtual ex-officio on the ArbComm?

Jayjg has been lying about his identity for years, but they won't investigate this because well... when it comes to professionalism and accuracy Wikipedia is a joke! And I for one prefer it to remain this way, which is why I contribute to investigations on WR where the findings by definition have to be denied whether true or not. Exposing problems on WR ensures that the problems remain and continue to fester on Wikipedia proper.

Long live Citizendium!

[Uly]

User:DennyColt account (whom we suspect is User:Terryeo)

What supports that?

Terryeo is one of those single purpose guys with an extremely one track mind. I find it very hard to believe he could spend all the time DennyColt does on random vandal fighting and policy wonking without finding a scientology-related fight to pick.

[anon1234]

User:DennyColt account (whom we suspect is User:Terryeo)

What supports that?

Terryeo is one of those single purpose guys with an extremely one track mind. I find it very hard to believe he could spend all the time DennyColt does on random vandal fighting and policy wonking without finding a scientology-related fight to pick.

Somey has long thought DennyColt is a sockpuppet of somebody. We put some evidence together recently that seemed to suggest that it may in fact be Terryeo, see this thread. I didn't think so at first, but then I started to notice that Terryeo had a great existing interest in ATT, RS, NOR and V as well as a lot of submissiveness towards SlimVirgin. Thus DennyColt's policy interests do have a clear precedent in Terryeo. There isn't any conclusive proof at this point though except for the similar spelling mistakes and similar interests and a few other relatively innocuous similarities. Further research is warranted. Was Terryeo ever subject to a checkuser? The individual who did that historical checkuser should still have the IP information and could compare it with the latest results from DennyColt's recent checkuser.

[Somey]

Further research is warranted.

Further research actually suggests it's not him, I'm afraid... I'm probably going to have to move some of that stuff out of the public subforums. Over the last few weeks, User:AntaeusFeldspar and User:ChrisO have spotted Terryeo using an AnonIP to edit some Scientology stuff, specifically this one, and since it's pretty clearly him and that isn't consistent with the gunning-for-adminship behavior we're seeing from DennyColt, I'd have to say Denny's probably not Terryeo. (There's just too many of 'em, dammit!)

Meanwhile, getting back to the original topic of this particular thread, this AN/I entry about Jayjg will probably get ChrisO booted out eventually, along with User:Timeshifter, another Wikipedian who's into Middle-East Affairs and (it would seem) largely opposed to the SlimVirgin folks...

[Uly]

(reads linked thread)

Yeah, you're only up to the Slimvirgin level of sockpuppet evidence so far.

Besides, too many WP admins /hate/ Terryeo. It'd have to be somebody who the checkuser clique likes well enough that they wouldn't expose them. Werdna, for example, is a cabal favorite but can't pass an RFA. He's too technical focused to be DennyColt, but someone in that line, I'm sure.