Jayjg in action, List of Jewish American journalists Options

[guy]

Jayjg's latest inspiration is that a newspaper columnist cannot be a journalist, and nor can someone who writes funny articles (because he's a humourist):

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=132331234

Maybe he's confusing "journalist" ("a person employed to write for or edit a newspaper or journal") with "reporter". And in a rare slip, here he is soliciting a meat puppet to get the whole article deleted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=138422149

[Poetlister]

I think that the key problem is some people are happy to have lists of French people or African American people but not Jewish ones. Jayjg has clearly identified a kindred spirit. Don't forget - he's not just deleting names from the list, he's trying to get it deleted lock, stock and barrel.

[Kato]

I think that the key problem is some people are happy to have lists of French people or African American people but not Jewish ones. Jayjg has clearly identified a kindred spirit. Don't forget - he's not just deleting names from the list, he's trying to get it deleted lock, stock and barrel.

That's the thing though isn't it. Being identified as French is a different prospect to being identified as Jewish. Being identified as Jewish or Catholic for that matter is, as Mark Lawson's article describes, a more complex matter containing ambiguities and difficult political issues. "African American" has its own complexities as Barack Obama has discovered. But I believe that few identifiers are more historically problematic than the labelling of Jews. That said, Slim and co were removing people like Nigella Lawson from the British list when a two second google search could locate enough reliable sources.

[guy]

Being identified as French is a different prospect to being identified as Jewish.

I still don't understand. If you have a reliable source that someone is French, they're French. Same with Jewish. Are you saying that the real world consequences are different and therefore we shouldn't identify people as Jewish even if they themselves don't hide it? Nigella Lawson is a good example of someone who is undoubtedly and unashamedly Jewish. The absurdity came when editors were deleting people partly notable because they are Jewish, like Eric Moonman.

[Kato]

Being identified as French is a different prospect to being identified as Jewish.

I still don't understand. If you have a reliable source that someone is French, they're French. Same with Jewish. Are you saying that the real world consequences are different and therefore we shouldn't identify people as Jewish even if they themselves don't hide it? Nigella Lawson is a good example of someone who is undoubtedly and unashamedly Jewish. The absurdity came when editors were deleting people partly notable because they are Jewish, like Eric Moonman.

Yes, removing Eric Moonman is ridiculous. And here is where Jayjg removes our Nigella - as does Slim Virgin. Curiously - and topically - Jayjg removes the controversial Jewish philanthropist Michael Levy, accused of cash for honors, and then tinkers with the entry for Levy's successor Ronald Cohen, also Jewish, also accused of cash for honors, and the latest "middle east envoy" for the Labour government. In this case it seems their zeal has simply pissed off a whole load of people for no reason. A common occurrence it seems.

I think this zeal is in part due to ignorance, which illustrates another problem aspect of all wikipedia; people editing articles on subjects they are largely ignorant about. SV and Jayjg are clearly unaware of who most of these people are. Hence, by rights they should leave the article to the people who do., or at least show some grace towards those more knowledgeable.

But Guy, as the Mark Lawson article illustrates, listing people by religion is far more problematic than listing people by nationality. Nationals have legal citizenship. According to reliable sources, Mark Lawson is not Jewish as claimed but Catholic. In reality he is neither.

[guy]

According to reliable sources, Mark Lawson is not Jewish as claimed but Catholic. In reality he is neither.

If there are no reliable sources that he's Jewish, he shouldn't be listed as Jewish. Simple. "In reality" is a concept alien to Wikipedia - it includes what is verifiable, not what is true.

Oh dear, I'm turning into a Wikipedian.