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Jonny Cache
Rescuing yet another brilliant theory from a context where it is doomed to be ignored.

Yeah, that'll work.

Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Fri 23rd November 2007, 6:04am) *

QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 22nd November 2007, 10:06pm) *

Somebody was piecing together the SlimVirgin story, but then, in the nick of time …

Jimbo to the rescue!


Here we see the the immune system of the organism Wikipseudpseud pseudio in action. In order to understand what is happening in this case it is pertinent to recall the functions and the properties of immune systems in general.

We give the name «Immune System» (IS) — from the Latin for duty-free and standing together — to the whole collection of agencies in a Collective Agent (CA) that facilitate the preservation of its Collective Identity (CI) by recognizing the distinction beteeen agencies of that collective and agencies not of that collective.

Defined in these terms, the IS of a CA X implements a specific information-theoretic or logical function, namely, the function of recognizing what agents are part the collective X and what agents are not part of the collective X. Agents of X are allowed to participate in the activities of X, while agents not of X must not be allowed to participate in the activities of X.

Jon Awbrey

The Joy
If I'm getting this right (and I often don't), the policies and functions of Wikipedia serve to protect the Cabal as the policies and the interpretations of them prevent "trolls" or "viruses" from attacking the arguments or characters of Cabalists?

The Wikipedia is itself a shield to the Cabal? Shouldn't the Cabal act as the shield to the Wikipedia? Who's defending who?
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(The Joy @ Fri 23rd November 2007, 11:58pm) *

If I'm getting this right (and I often don't), the policies and functions of Wikipedia serve to protect the Cabal as the policies and the interpretations of them prevent "trolls" or "viruses" from attacking the arguments or characters of Cabalists?

The Wikipedia is itself a shield to the Cabal? Shouldn't the Cabal act as the shield to the Wikipedia? Who's defending who?


Someone asked on another thread why Jimbo doesn't just rid himself of SlimVirgin. To state it more generally, why doesn't the Body Politic of Wikipedia rid itself of any number of Agents who are obviously doing its espoused mission more harm than good? Mere observation tells us the following. The Cabal that forms the Power That Is Of The Body identifies certain agents as being Of The Body (OTB), more especially, Of The Cabal (OTC), and the Cabal will cut them off no more easily than you or I would give up an arm or a leg without overwhelming reason to do so.

The Cabal defends itself using Wikipedia as a shield. Ordinary editors are so many skin cells and scabs that can be sloughed off without batting an eye.

Jon Awbrey
The Joy
The purpose of a brain or these agents is to defend and maintain the body, not to take advantage of it or hurt it for one's own gains.

Won't over time the body die? Its own guardians or Agents abusing it? An agent sounds like a disease that needs the body to survive in order for the disease to survive and gain strength, but eventually it ends up destroying the body itself. Given that the disease in this case controls the immune system, the only way for the body to survive is if the Agents leave or are evicted.

I can't see an easy cure short of the body dying and being rebuilt from square one.
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(The Joy @ Sat 24th November 2007, 1:31am) *

The purpose of a brain or these agents is to defend and maintain the body, not to take advantage of it or hurt it for one's own gains.

Won't over time the body die? Its own guardians or Agents abusing it? An agent sounds like a disease that needs the body to survive in order for the disease to survive and gain strength, but eventually it ends up destroying the body itself. Given that the disease in this case controls the immune system, the only way for the body to survive is if the Agents leave or are evicted.

I can't see an easy cure short of the body dying and being rebuilt from square one.


I am using «agent» as a generic term for anything that acts.

Staying with the immune system metaphor, «antigens» are agents that act «against our kind» and consequently stimulate an immune response, for instance, the production of agents called «antibodies» that act to neutralize the antigens in question.

The question that we have to ask is what type activity is being facilitated by the organism or organization in question. Is it the production of an accurate, balanced, competent encyclopedia like the ads say, or is it something else? What sort of activity causes an agent to be identified as an antigen by the Cabal? Is it because that agent interferes with the activity of producing a quality encyclopedia, or is it because that agent interferes with some other project, some hidden agenda for which the encyclopedia project provides a convenient cover?

Jon Awbrey
Moulton
The dominance hierarchy is unstable.
The Joy
I believe that Cabal members generally despise each other. Yet they realize if one breaks the pact, the whole system collapses.

Cabalista A may despise Cabalista B, but for their mutual defense pact (the system) to remain and for those in the Cabal to benefit from it, they must work with and support each other. Like a Cartel, I guess.

Each Cabal member defends and covers each other. Failure to do so results in everyone's dirty secrets to be discovered. I think blackmail is how everyone keeps everyone on board. That's what I figure, though it is a bizarre and counterproductive system to be sure.

If an editor uncovers an act of corruption by a Cabal member, all Cabal members are required to act against the editor lest the mutual defense pact collapses and the Cabalistas destroy each other.

It is like Survivor, only bloodier psychologically and sociologically wise. In the end, everyone wants their POV or agenda done, but rely on other potential back-stabbers in order to succeed. Those that attempt to destroy the alliance internally or externally will pay dearly.

The tribe has spoken.
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(The Joy @ Sat 24th November 2007, 5:06am) *

I believe that Cabal members generally despise each other. Yet they realize if one breaks the pact, the whole system collapses.

Cabalista A may despise Cabalista B, but for their mutual defense pact (the system) to remain and for those in the Cabal to benefit from it, they must work with and support each other. Like a Cartel, I guess.

Each Cabal member defends and covers each other. Failure to do so results in everyone's dirty secrets to be discovered. I think blackmail is how everyone keeps everyone on board. That's what I figure, though it is a bizarre and counterproductive system to be sure.

If an editor uncovers an act of corruption by a Cabal member, all Cabal members are required to act against the editor lest the mutual defense pact collapses and the Cabalistas destroy each other.

It is like Survivor, only bloodier psychologically and sociologically wise. In the end, everyone wants their POV or agenda done, but rely on other potential back-stabbers in order to succeed. Those that attempt to destroy the alliance internally or externally will pay dearly.

The tribe has spoken.


By Jimbo, I think he's got it !!!
Landru Be Praised !!!

Jonny cool.gif
Jon Awbrey
⌁ It's That Old ⌛ Eternal ⌚ Return ⏎ All Over Again ⌁

⌁ Jon boing.gif ⌁
Jon Awbrey
Recovering the initial context …

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Fri 23rd November 2007, 11:40pm) *

Rescuing yet another brilliant theory from a context where it is doomed to be ignored.

Yeah, that'll work.

Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Fri 23rd November 2007, 6:04am) *

QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 22nd November 2007, 10:06pm) *

Somebody was piecing together the SlimVirgin story, but then, in the nick of time …

Jimbo to the rescue!


Here we see the the immune system of the organism Wikipseudpseud pseudio in action. In order to understand what is happening in this case it is pertinent to recall the functions and the properties of immune systems in general.

We give the name «Immune System» (IS) — from the Latin for duty-free and standing together — to the whole collection of agencies in a Collective Agent (CA) that facilitate the preservation of its Collective Identity (CI) by recognizing the distinction beteeen agencies of that collective and agencies not of that collective.

Defined in these terms, the IS of a CA X implements a specific information-theoretic or logical function, namely, the function of recognizing what agents are part the collective X and what agents are not part of the collective X. Agents of X are allowed to participate in the activities of X, while agents not of X must not be allowed to participate in the activities of X.

Jon Awbrey



Jon Awbrey
Looking back over the last 5 years of unwilling experience with Wikipedia, I think the biggest thing that its more remote observers do not get is this —
  • What is the main product of the Wikipedia process?
Just by way of Sockratic inquiry and all, I guess I'll leave it with a question mark for now.

Jon Image
thekohser
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Fri 16th July 2010, 10:38am) *

Looking back over the last 5 years of unwilling experience with Wikipedia, I think the biggest thing that its more remote observers do not get is this —
  • What is the main product of the Wikipedia process?
Just by way of Sockratic inquiry and all, I guess I'll leave it with a question mark for now.

Jon Image


May I take a guess?

"Discord".

Or, if I may be a little more specific, "Addictive discord".

I'd be interested to hear what others say. Also, side bets on who first offers the answer of "a free encyclopedia".
Jon Awbrey
    idea.gif
Hint

Consider the context of the question. We have been exploring the aptness of the analogy between biological immune systems and cult defense systems, so the analogous question for the biosystem would be —
  • What is the main product or purpose of the immune system?
Jon Image
Milton Roe
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Fri 16th July 2010, 4:26pm) *

    idea.gif
Hint

Consider the context of the question. We have been exploring the aptness of the analogy between biological immune systems and cult defense systems, so the analogous question for the biosystem would be —
  • What is the main product or purpose of the immune system?
Jon Image

It keeps smaller organisms from getting inside you and eating you alive, as they naturally would do if you were dead.
Moulton
QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Sat 17th July 2010, 3:08am) *
The Immune System keeps smaller organisms from getting inside you and eating you alive, as they naturally would do if you were dead.

You are what eats you.
Zoloft
The immune system produces stuff like pus... sloughed-off white blood cells I believe (not a biologist am I).

So like the Wikipedia it regards outsiders as attackers and hurls bits of itself into action to destroy the invaders, often to the detriment of the corpus it's trying to protect?
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 16th July 2010, 3:29pm) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Fri 16th July 2010, 10:38am) *

Looking back over the last 5 years of unwilling experience with Wikipedia, I think the biggest thing that its more remote observers do not get is this —
  • What is the main product of the Wikipedia process?
Just by way of Sockratic inquiry and all, I guess I'll leave it with a question mark for now.

Jon Image


May I take a guess?

"Discord".

Or, if I may be a little more specific, "Addictive discord".

I'd be interested to hear what others say. Also, side bets on who first offers the answer of "a free encyclopedia".


Wikipedia sure produces a lot of discord, but I guess a charitable interpretation would start out by calling that a by-product. On the other hand, there could conceivably be an ulterior motive for generating discord, if only as a distraction of attention from something else. If discord is addictive to some people, and it sure seems to be, then that might give the Wikipedia Probody a reason to push it, but the question behind all that is — What is the WP:BODY trying to preserve in the process?

Jon Image
Milton Roe
QUOTE(Moulton @ Sat 17th July 2010, 2:27am) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Sat 17th July 2010, 3:08am) *
The Immune System keeps smaller organisms from getting inside you and eating you alive, as they naturally would do if you were dead.

You are what eats you.

Except you're no longer you, but THEM. As A.E. Housman wrote:

The Grizzly Bear is huge and wild;
He has devoured the infant child.
The infant child is not aware
It has been eaten by the bear.

Or the limerick (written by Monkhouse or somebody)

There was a young lady of Niger
Who smiled as she rode on a tiger;
They returned from the ride
With the lady inside,
And the smile on the face of the tiger.

Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(Zoloft @ Sat 17th July 2010, 5:52am) *

The immune system produces stuff like pus … sloughed-off white blood cells I believe (not a biologist am I).

So like the Wikipedia it regards outsiders as attackers and hurls bits of itself into action to destroy the invaders, often to the detriment of the corpus it's trying to protect?


What is the corpus?

What are the protectors trying to protect?

How do they decide “insider” vs. “outsider”?

How would they know if they decide wrong?

Jon huh.gif
Zoloft
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Sun 18th July 2010, 2:46am) *

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Sat 17th July 2010, 5:52am) *

The immune system produces stuff like pus … sloughed-off white blood cells I believe (not a biologist am I).

So like the Wikipedia it regards outsiders as attackers and hurls bits of itself into action to destroy the invaders, often to the detriment of the corpus it's trying to protect?


What is the corpus?

What are the protectors trying to protect?

How do they decide “insider” vs. “outsider”?

How would they know if they decide wrong?

Jon huh.gif

It's an autoimmune disease... like lupus.
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(Zoloft @ Sun 18th July 2010, 7:21am) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Sun 18th July 2010, 2:46am) *

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Sat 17th July 2010, 5:52am) *

The immune system produces stuff like pus … sloughed-off white blood cells I believe (not a biologist am I).

So like the Wikipedia it regards outsiders as attackers and hurls bits of itself into action to destroy the invaders, often to the detriment of the corpus it's trying to protect?


What is the corpus?

What are the protectors trying to protect?

How do they decide “insider” vs. “outsider”?

How would they know if they decide wrong?

Jon huh.gif


It's an autoimmune disease … like lupus.


It sure looks that way sometimes — to us, maybe — but whether you see some wounds as self-inflicted or not will depend on your definition of “self” and how well you recognize the things that fall under your Intended Definition (ID).

How do the Insiders deside they're Inside? To use that old argot from The Return of the Archons, how does the “Body” decide what's Of The Body (OTB) and Not Of The Body (NOTB)?

Jon Image
thekohser
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Sun 18th July 2010, 9:06am) *

To use that old argot from The Return of the Archons, how does the “Body” decide what's Of The Body (OTB) and Not Of The Body (NOTB)?

Jon Image


If you're not willing to have your individuality "merge into the union of good", then you are not of The Body.

You're also probably going to stay inside and play dominoes at Red Hour, rather than attend Festival.

In all seriousness, I think there is a certain truth to comparing Wikipediot culture with the followers of Landru. People who want to express their creativity and their individuality and, dare I say, wish to receive recognition and credit for it, are generally not successfully absorbed into Wikipedia.
Zoloft
The various clumps of POV-enforcing users and admins are analogous to swollen lymph glands.

smile.gif
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(Zoloft @ Sun 18th July 2010, 1:38pm) *

The various clumps of POV-enforcing users and admins are analogous to swollen lymph glands.

smile.gif


Aha! Lymph Dicks they are indeed — and POV is certainly part of the WP:BOOTY that the WP:BODY is fighting to preserve, perhaps even the main part.

And we all know — well, some of us do — that it's more like a Non-Acknowledged Point Of View (WP:NAPOV) sleep.gif that's really at stake here, nothing nowhere near that mythical NPOV.

But what POV, exactly, is OTB, exactly?

Jon huh.gif
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(thekohser @ Sun 18th July 2010, 12:40pm) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Sun 18th July 2010, 9:06am) *

To use that old argot from The Return of the Archons, how does the “Body” decide what's Of The Body (OTB) and Not Of The Body (NOTB)?

Jon Image


If you're not willing to have your individuality "merge into the union of good", then you are not of The Body.

You're also probably going to stay inside and play dominoes at Red Hour, rather than attend Festival.

In all seriousness, I think there is a certain truth to comparing Wikipediot culture with the followers of Landru. People who want to express their creativity and their individuality and, dare I say, wish to receive recognition and credit for it, are generally not successfully absorbed into Wikipedia.


Jimbu Bee Prazed !!! — He Ducks Like A Quack !!!

It's a twist of course on The Wizard Of Oz, the twist being that there's not so much as a real human snake-oil peddler behind the projected image of a panacea for all yer aches and social ills.

That may give us the genre of the beast whose corpus lies in our dissecting tray, but we still have to pin down the specious Good that so abwhores the very idea of a different individual.

Jon Awbrey
Jon Awbrey
Frequently Unanswered Question (FUQ) —

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Sun 18th July 2010, 2:00pm) *

But what POV, exactly, is OTB, exactly?


Moulton
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 2nd August 2010, 11:34am) *
Frequently Unanswered Question (FUQ) —
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Sun 18th July 2010, 2:00pm) *
But what POV, exactly, is OTB, exactly?

How does your "second brain" (the one one in your guts) know what to digest and what to expel?
thekohser
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 2nd August 2010, 11:34am) *

Frequently Unanswered Question (FUQ) —

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Sun 18th July 2010, 2:00pm) *

But what POV, exactly, is OTB, exactly?



It is the POV that addresses a subject in such a way to coddle the thinking of 99% of readers, but that which will irritate the other 1% enough to want to participate in the content-generation process to change it. It's a tricky thing.
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 2nd August 2010, 2:09pm) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 2nd August 2010, 11:34am) *

Frequently Unanswered Question (FUQ) —

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Sun 18th July 2010, 2:00pm) *

But what POV, exactly, is OTB, exactly?



It is the POV that addresses a subject in such a way to coddle the thinking of 99% of readers, but that which will irritate the other 1% enough to want to participate in the content-generation process to change it. It's a tricky thing.


That sounds like something to think about …

But now ponder this —

ANTIGEN (BADCYTE) obliterate.gif ANTIBODY (GOODCYTE)

Which raises the question — Just whose cyte are we on?

PRO-BODY (BADCYTE) obliterate.gif PRO-GEN (GOODCYTE)

Jon wtf.gif

P.S. Wikipedia says “antigen” is short for “antibody generator”. I don't know whether to believe that or not, but it does make a good mnemonic no matter what.
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