i'd like to see a time analysis of Crum vs Slim edits.

Kato hit nailonhead with Crum's 10RR show yesterday. It was all about the Slimmy, not the Gary.

For some reason, Linda thinks that it isn't public knowledge by now that she and Byrne encountered each other at Cambridge, and it wasn't a pleasant one. That she ever got involved with Byrne-related WP articles is consistent with her inability to keep herself away from other personally involved topics on WP (old bosses, colleagues, professors, etc) and apply admin tools to them is just another reason why she should not be anonymously adminning on WP.

Meet the Mantan, meet the Moreland,
Step right up and greet the Weiss.
Bring your socks, bring your slimmy,
Guaranteed to have the time of your life.
Because Tomstoners are really sockin' the ball,
Knockin' those home runs over the wall.
East side, West side, everysock's coming down,
To meet the M-A-N-T-A-N Moreland, of Brooklyn town.

If you've ever wondered what Matanmoreland was doing on Aug 16,2007, he found another venue to pump his book (paperback release!) on this show.

I guess after pumping his book on WP using his multiple aliases all agreeing at the same time (and emailing his buddies from his gary email account about it at the same time - I wouldn't assume Byrne is lying to you about this, WP) that his book is the toppermost, trying it again for the paperback release just wasn't feasible when it was down to just a Samiharris-Mantanmoreland show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FccvRZxsY0

gary's calm and sedate. probably did not just have a blog war with judd or an edit war on WP (this was August, a blissful time for garysocks while the SS Slimmy list got their act together, lol) yet that day. I watched a good deal of it, and kept waiting for gary to say something of any substance. I'm still waiting and the vid's over. Jeez, there's no there, there.

Note wordbomb's jab on the comments.

If I was the interviewer, I would have asked: "Gary, your book has an entire chapter on how naked short selling is a necessity to allow the market to regulate itself, yet the SEC Commissioner says it is a very serious problem that the SEC is trying to stop with Reg SHO and other efforts. Why do you think it's OK to commit finanicial crimes to prevent other financial crimes, instead of just reporting the original crimes to the regulators? Because it's very profitable to be able to enact bear raids on stocks using intra-day endless supply of sell-side pressure, combined with organized negative press coverage, and a team of people working several influential day-trader forums spreading bad rumours?"

But then I've always been a run-on sentencer, so I wouldnt get the gig.

The Elephant in the Mantamoreland Arb Room.




post 111 from this Sir Fozzie's Investigation thread


on his blog, Gary Moreland has declared those emails to be "forged". He's lying.

I like how he knows they're forged before seeing them. But of course, Gary Weiss doesn't lie. And niether does Mantanmoreland, who also demands a Wiki-investigation into the forged emails.

Because specific claims are being openly made about the contents, and he of course absolutely never wrote any e-mails for which such claims would be valid. The better question would be, if the claims are false and he never wrote any such emails, how would he know that the e-mails exist at all; wouldn't he be claiming they don't exist at all rather than that they're forged? That he's on the "they're forged" angle _before_ the e-mails are actually published tells us that he knows they exist.

actually, Gary knows they exist because according to his own blog, a reporter showed them (one? more?) to him.

and MM, pretending not to be Gary, despite IP/Varkala/Interests/Email evidence, supposedly has read Gary's blog to learn this.

So this line of reasoning that you guys are now trying to go at is off-target. there are so many more easier contradictions to point out though.

Just ban MM and his socks for abusive socking, you don't even have to pursue what we all know what Gary has been up to for 2 years, and everyone wins. The WP aspect of this is more just an embarrassment, there are a lot more larger concerns off-WP involved that WP and WP'ians shouldn't care about, and is beyond the scope of a classic sock case.

Off-WP will take care of your COI expose's for you, WP. Just get back to doing what the Durovas and Jehochmans of the WP are doing, and trying to wipe all traces of this off their reputations, lol.

Thatcher? not so much.

Enjoy this

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&oldid=88023922

Crum blocked for 31 hours

Now the question is...who will lift it? Slimmy? Gergewilliamherbert? Place your bets!

GWH. Slimmy is staying away (with her primary sock that is) due to Byrne-Slimmy COI.

Although since the guy who did the block is the guy calling the shots on the Arb, I'd say the block will stick.

Crum is a kamikaze sock and has been behaving like one for a long, long time. Prove me wrong, WP.

No unblock request yet or reaction on wiki from Crum yet. I can just imagine all the gmail flying around about this one.

Thatcher has recused himself from the case, but not recused himself from doing what Crum's goal was all along (again), and that's to freeze the proceedings.

Odd sense of recusal that Thatcher has.

Odd sense of sockpuppet justice enforcement too.

Also....so how many times now has MM written that he is not GW, and vice versa?
Let's collect this somewhere. For laughs and reference later on.

Maybe it's just me, but anonymous civility of WP hinges on truthiness. And when you get caught lying, no one is going to trust you, your anonymity, that you won't use socks abusively, any more.

You can't WikiLove without WikiTrust, baby. I'm sure Jimbo has said something like that in one of his weird bizarre apologetic wikicrisis afterglow summaries.

I'm sure Thatcher reads WR carefully. Maybe he'd like to sign up and respond.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=194288367
Mm. Sounds ominous.

If FT2 doesn't hint that Crum should be unblocked, I honestly don't think anyone will touch it for 24 hours. I think Crum's newbie-style edit warring has left everyone slack-jawed and baffled at his single-minded stupidity. Except for Mantanmoreland, that is.

This is JzG-level behavior. and seems totally beneath Slum. I would have bet serious money against him warring for a third time. It seems to waste his political capital for no discernible reason whatsoever.

slimmy does some really irrational wikithings when stressed.

I gotta say: that move by Crum had the hint of account suicide.

She (I've never gotten the male vibe from Crum, whoever she is) just threw that account away and saved Mantanmoreland from himself in the process.

Like a bad novel from the height of the Latin American Romanticist movement.

What do ya mean "his"- it's SlimVirgin. She's just throwing her toys out of the pram because she thought that those in the know were going to turn a blind eye to socking by sooper seekrit cabal members.

Any possibility that Crum may be a Jayjg sock?

Nope, not unless he is an expert on plane crashes.

Not everything people do is politically motivated. For my part, I wasted tons of "political capital" defending some rather unpopular people, and I don't regret a thing. It seems probable that Crum sincerely feels the "pyschopath" link is over the top and shouldn't be there, and is willing to take the hit to stand up for that principle, or just to stand up for his/her friend.

Mind you, I personally disagree with the removal of the link, not the least because Mr. Weiss had already turned Wikipedia into an attack farm against Mr. Bagley and Mr. Byrne. There is some value not only in the truth, but in teaching RWI-attackers and their would-be imitators a lesson.

then slummy ought to take a gander at what is linked to under [[Gary Weiss]]'s EL to the Weiss Blog. That piece of work has been "attacking wikipedian" Byrne for 2 years with terminology that make psychopath look tame.

Byrne doesn't even speculate on how many balls GW has, under an anonymous name.

Byrne hasn't been sued by Weiss, you'll note.

Let Slummy go through every WP edit they and their friends, all the way up to Jimmyhat, made about what "psychopaths" and such that Byrne and his company are according to them. Get it?

People want consistency of treatment on WP.

Overstock/Byrne/Bagley should sue Jimmyhat back to the porn age, but they're nice guys trying to give WP a chance to right the wrongs instead,imo. And WP is stepping up and replacing these dishonest admintyrants with honest editors. Good for them and for WP. And Byrne's boys are already a bit busy suing Gary's friends already.

and WP, know this:

Samiharris = Mantanmoreland

They aren't meatpuppets or editing buddies.
It is the same guy, from the same PC. But keep on wanking on WP and finding any excuse you can to save Gary's Mantanmoreland account, lol.

Just keep on ignoring what the WordB tells you. Keep on ignoring the IP's. It's worked out so wonderfully for you in the past.

WordB isn't forging IP screen shots or emails, lol.

Yes, that's what I'm saying.


Absolutely.

It seems typical Slum modus operandi: WP rules and rulings do not apply to them. It wouldn't surprise me to see a Crum post along the lines of "I am being WikiStalked and harassed on this ArbCom therefore I will no longer read the talk pages and simply edit as I see fit." This will shortly be followed by "Don't add anything to the evidence page without discussing and gaining consensus on the talk page first."

So how long before this entire farce is thrown out because it can't be proved that any wrongdoing has taken place?

I give it 36 hours. If any talk of the real world is ruled out, then nothing can be shown.

Should get interesting soon, the protection has just been lifted and Slimmy starts to post...

She seems to be suggesting WordBomb created SamiHarris to attack Mantanmoreland.

True that. She just removed an "opinion," which would be a legal threat from a non-super admin.

Not necessarily. The wording is a little unclear, and perhaps deliberately deceptive (this is Slimmy, after all). But either way, and assuming this is even true in the first place, it's just as likely that Mr. Wordbomb set himself up with Proxify.com to get WP to block as many Proxify IP's as possible, so that Weiss would start getting IP-block messages which would hopefully "spook" him into switching to another service - not so much to annoy him, but rather to use the change as confirmation (of a sort) that the Proxify AnonIP's had been Weiss. Difficult to say... The fact that it caused some confusion among the WP ranks (who, to be fair, probably weren't really all that interested for the most part) would have just been an added bonus.

That's not to say it actually worked though, since Slimmy's evidence here would indicate that Weiss didn't abandon his Proxify account, at least not right away. We know now that the CheckUser results suggest that they were (and perhaps still are) both using that same service, but only because they've told us - Wordbomb wouldn't have been privy to those results then, obviously.

I'd have to assume that back in Nov. 2006, Mr. Wordbomb was still (to put it politely) trying to figure out the most effective strategy for achieving his (presumably) main goal, which was to expose User:Mantanmoreland as Weiss. That would probably have included a few tactics that either wouldn't have worked, or might be likely to have backfired on him at a later date. There's no handy manual for this sort of thing, after all. (I keep threatening to write one...)

Of course, another possibility might be that Weiss was using Proxify IP's to "harass" himself, so as to maintain the general atmosphere of Wordbomb-related paranoia that was being peddled on WP at the time. That seems a bit less realistic, but to be honest, none of this has seemed particularly realistic since Day One, at least in my opinion.

I finally managed to watch this snoozefest, and while I wouldn't recommend it for entertainment value, there was one part that gave an interesting insight into Weiss's motives and general attitudes - about halfway in, the interviewer (who's almost as unintelligible as Weiss is, sound quality-wise) makes the point that dirty dealings on the stock market mainly affect rich people, as opposed to "common middle-class folks." Weiss disagrees though, bringing out the largely-bogus "50 percent" figure for the percentage of US citizens who own stock.

While that figure may be technically accurate, the idea that half the United States is actively engaged in stock trading on a daily (or even weekly) basis, to the point where the regular sale of stock becomes a significant income source for them, is simply preposterous. The vast majority of stockholders in the US are people who don't even "dabble" - they simply own a few shares of something, quite often as part of a mutual fund or some other managed investment, which they're sitting on as a long-term "nest egg" or what have you.

The interviewer tries to argue (politely) with him, to the effect that the number people directly affected by various stock scams and lack of proper regulation must still be quite small, and that most of them must still be fairly wealthy - but Weiss just shrugs him off.

SV and her goons have obviously been desperately racking their brains to see what excuses they can come up with- this is a very lame one indeed. Pity that Mr Weiss made (yet another) slipup....

I'm afraid I must agree.

If they only knew how badly they're damaging their reputations, for a completely lost cause, in the service of one who tricked and used them.

Even if ArbCom did let MM/SH off the hook - frankly, difficult to envision (though they've surprised me before) - it wouldn't end there. That Mantanmoreland = Samiharris = Tomstoner = LastExit = Gary Weiss has already been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. Others outside Wikipedia will be looking at this, and will not be bound by ArbCom in drawing their conclusions. All that remains to be demonstrated is who can see this clearly, and be honest about what they see, and who can't and/or can't.

They're using the word ''credible'' evidence. Would this word not be interpreted as well as there may be fabrication of evidence and can not be trusted? ''Valid'' evidence would be a more proper term.

Old Gary just doesn't have the same guts as Slimmy does. Even he says, "ok, ok, that would be a lot of bullshit to swallow":
(and later here as well)

And in case you missed it, Gary apparently does not have sources to support his claim of harassment and a smear campaign and has decided to cite the ultimate sources:

Arbcom and SlimVirgin!




New York Times? Old hat. The Register? A fucking rag. Arbcom and SlimVirgin?

Reliable as a groundhog.

The "evidence" presented by Georgewilliamherbert is predictably hilarious. And it includes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...ewilliamherbert

WB is Wordbomb (why the hell do you people use so many acronyms, how much longer does it take to write Wordbomb than WB?)

Is this Herbert seriously suggesting that Sweet Blue Water wasn't a sockpuppet of SlimVirgin? Or that it wasn't used to vote twice on an afd (an act that has seen other editors banned by Slim herself)?. For crying out loud.

Yeah, I got confused by that too. Sweet Blue Water was clearly a sockpuppet of SlimVirgin's. Maybe SlimVirgin is telling people in private emails that the Sweet Blue Water accusations are fabricated and others are buying it??? SlimVirign sockpuppeted and was caught after the fact. That is a fact that is very well established. I think that maybe this Georgewilliamherbert fellow is just incompetent and a bumbler. That might be the simpler explanation.

I do think it reflects badly on SlimVirgin that she so transparently pushed the purposefully deceptive "explanation" that WordBomb is Samiharris. It just reminds people that SlimVirgin likes to spin tall tails that suit her purposes.

Varkala may not mean much

To me the case is pretty clear cut at this point. Varkala is a big deal.

By itself it is nothing, I agree. But it certainly seems to be the tipping point, or smallest circle in a Venn diagram (Jr. High math, here I come). When considering the universe of potential editors, there may be many who are interested in naked short selling and Overstock.com's allegations in this area; somewhat fewer who would also promote Weiss; fewer still who are also interested in Tombstone, Ariz; and even fewer who are also interested in the situation of Jews in India. By the time you get to Varkala (both as a topic and the time shift), it seems that the subset of wikipedia editors who would share all these characteristics must be very small indeed.

Here's my take on what may be happening in George William Herbert's mind. Perhaps he's adopted the Wikipediot Model of Fact and Error Refinement (WP:MF'ER). He enters an argument with one view of things, already firmly established in his mind. Any fact or presentation that supports that view, he also supports as "conclusive" or "obvious" or "widely-held".

Any fact or presentation (or even tone of voice or spelling error) that does not support his view, he rejects as "contentious" or "trolling" or "false data".

With WP:MF'ER, the loyal Wikipediot can justify in his mind virtually any position on any argument!

Greg

Good post Greg. That seems to be an accurate analysis. I've been fascinated by Herbert for six months or so, ever since I started noticing his jaw droppingly stupid posts to Wiki-en list.

When Piperdown's block was re-examined recently, Herbert wrote that Piperdown was a sockpuppet of Wordbomb based on his "duck test" some 10-15 times in just one debate alone. He actually claimed "the duck test" was policy! Even though a cursory glance at the sockpuppet charges made this highly unlikely at best. Yet having made up his mind before hand, probably through extraordinary gullibility, he relentlessly banged the drum in the face of overwhelming evidence.

It is interesting watching how these people, who are so clearly wrong about almost everything, slowly shift positions when the truth hits them in the face. Like Oil Tankers in the sea they labor and struggle to shift their course.

While JzG is a classic example of this, and far more obnoxious in his wrong-headedness, Herbert is so hoplessly wrong so much of the time, often comically, that I often wonder what is going in on in his psyche? And as I think I've written before, how on earth did he manage to find himself in such a position within the Wiki-establishment? He's like the George W Bush of Wikipedia, where you just wonder how? I mean, he didn't seem to know how to format a [[:Category]] when he was commenting on one page I saw recently.

Er, has anybody noticed what's going on with Arbcom? Looks like MM/GW will be told not to edit the articles again and that's it.

Please see The Thread Of Outrage

Speaking of Dubya, some old timer once told me that Lame Duck is really a euphemism for Limp Dick. This seems both conclusive and obvious to me, if not exactly widely-known.

Jonny

If you think that, you aren't reading it closely enough.

Even if so, it would only mean that he would have sleightly more trouble editing the affected articles under his previous two proxies.

Jonny

nah, they left a loophole big enough to let MM continue editing them with his current account:



(emphasis added)

so if the circumstance that creates a conflict of interest is that he's Gary Weiss, then he doesn't have to disclose that.

Sock Update for the W-R.

Keep in mind these were abusive socks. With deceptive intent. Often to double vote, create false consensus, and tag team folks who don't have a Jayjg-esque posse' at their backs.

Mantanmoreland - the Head Dick, still going strong on WP. Blocked for 2 weeks, which is like suspending an American Baseball pitcher for 4 days (starting lineup pitchers play once every 5 days and rest for 4 days between). More wristslapping for show from the rotten core of WP.

Samiharris - he burned so brightly, so boldly, and went out on his own terms. Sort of. Sammy was Gary's cat per his usenet (a-choo!) contributions.

Tomstoner - Samiharrris's less agressive and more clueless incarnation. Old alkies shouldn't make fun of stoners. The dude abides, man.

EmilyWelles - what the fuck. Lol.

LastExit - Not the last sock to exit in brooklyn from Gary's PC. It was really hard to carry on a self-menage-a-trois, so gary just kept it to a manageable dynamic duo sockshow the next time.

Bassettcat - possibly a sequel to Sammi Cat in real life, and now a sequel to Samiharris on WP.

I think Gary's blog is still linked to from his WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY. It's hilarious, and a laughing-at-you-not-with-you kind of way. yikes.

Sorry, this made me laugh. I finally saw that movie for the first time on Monday... killer. "WE BELIEVE IN NOFFING!!!"

I wonder if Word-B's posting tonite is alluding to those pending 1841 emails.....

Var-kal-a, O Var-kal-a.

I just like that word.

Just for the hell of it, I once looked at the edits out of IP address of DTC building from which MM/GW allegedly edited, and found one to a Bengali newspaper, actually posted in the Bangla language. So somebody there knows Bangla, and I figured that was the wife maybe. However, West Bengal (up by Bangladesh, same root) is about as far away from Kochi and Varkala as you can get. And Weiss's wife wife claimed to publish in the Pioneer of India, which is in English not Bangla, and is published in places like Kochi and Delhi, and not particular the Northwest. So that person at the DTC is probably somebody else. The whole thing should be unraveled someday, if MM ever gets here. We can sit around the lounge and laugh about whether the detective work was defective work or not.

Varkala. Yeah, fun.