Having been granted immunity from the WordBomb banhammer by GWH's potentially career-ending gaffe, Mackan79 today turned his sights to SlimVirgin.

You simply must read this guy's work. It is the best bit of SV=Crum375 evidence I've seen.

Of course Slim shortly reverted without comment, followed by one of her trademark talk page archiving moves.

(And, by the off chance that archive finds itself disappeared, here's a webcitation version of it.)

But WordBomb, didn't you once say that Crum seemed to have a New York IP address? I assumed that Crum is a sycophant--who occasionally reverts ten times against the advice of arbitrators in support of SV. It honestly would be hard to tell them apart.

Hmm... On second thought, Mackan79 may be on to something.

I'm sorry he was blocked incorrectly, but I see no reason to make a special case for him here, unless we're going to do the same thing for everyone from now on.

06:36, 13 March 2008 Viridae (Talk | contribs) unblocked Mackan79 (Talk | contribs) ‎ (Not a cockpuppet per http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...omb_sockpuppet)

Can someone do a MM/SH type analysis of SV/Crum editing patterns and see how their edits fit together timewise and if they have a suspicious lack of editing "collisions"?

But WordBomb, didn't you once say that Crum seemed to have a New York IP address?

The times I captured it, Crum did have a NYC IP, making it hard for me to accept the conventional WR wisdom that SV=Crum.

Why is Sidaway trying so hard to ingratiate his way back into the cult's good graces?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mac...ersonal_attacks

They communicate off site and Crum helps Slim in whatever dispute she finds herself in. I found a whole load of long screeds by the two of them on active talk page discussions that were virtually simultaneous. That one person could physically manage to log off / log on, post long replies interacting with other users in the fashion I saw looked impossible.

You wouldn't need to log in/log off- you just have a different wikipedia account in another browser i.e. one account in internet explorer, one in firefox, not difficult in any way.

Make it any two of {Firefox | Mozilla SeaMonkey | Opera | Safari | Konquerer}... friends don't let friends use Internet Explorer!

Make it any two of {Firefox | Mozilla SeaMonkey | Opera | Safari | Konquerer}... friends don't let friends use Internet Explorer!

You wouldn't need to log in/log off- you just have a different wikipedia account in another browser i.e. one account in internet explorer, one in firefox, not difficult in any way.

Slim's postings are far more subtle, cogent, and bright than Crum's, so I just can't imagine they're the same person. There's too much stylistic difference. The duckling editing is obvious—Crum will show up whenever she does, on disputes. I basically agree with Merkinsmum and earlier comments: most everybody knows he follows her around, and that they must communicate off-site (which isn't disallowed).

But what to do? Admit they have a six-revert rule, and...? *Shrugs.* I mean, really, what can you do? You can't police that stuff.

I think it more important that people know Crum's signature. Slim remains herself: an intelligent, informed, and sometimes maddening presence on policy. Crum is a duckling—ignore his edits, because it's always "per her." That's my policy

....and shoot off long posts reacting to talk page developments instantaneously? And show completely different writing styles, intelligence, interest?

I think it more important that people know Crum's signature. Slim remains herself: an intelligent, informed, and sometimes maddening presence on policy. Crum is a duckling—ignore his edits, because it's always "per her." That's my policy

Anybody else notice Viridae's



???

You wouldn't need to log in/log off- you just have a different wikipedia account in another browser i.e. one account in internet explorer, one in firefox, not difficult in any way. There is also the possibility that they are sometimes operated by different users and sometimes by just one, i.e. when one needs backup but the other is unavailable to edit.

Tony Sideways is taking this to ArbComm!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...n#User:Mackan79

edit conflict) Decline. (And involved, though as neutral administrative/arbitrator, rather than as a party, for full disclosure.) Background of my awareness: - GWH emailed Arbcom with his concern that Mackan had self-outed as a sock of a banned user, a concern worded fairly, and based upon a good-faith but erroneous interpretation of a post by Mackan. I investigated (at least 4 checkusers did so in total) and within 1.5 hours emailed GWH back that this was "exceedingly unlikely". GWH for reasons I don't fully understand, later blocked Mackan, a block that was reversed. Somewhere in all this Mackan positively identified himself to a checkuser (name, corporation, phone number, city), and was fully verified not to be the person in question. A discussion ensued by one Arbitrator whether the block log was problematic enough to be wiped, and due to concerns of excessive favor (this is not a move most users would have for a bad block) I posted a statement requesting communal views at ANI on the suggestion. SlimVirgin posted a strongly worded objection which to my mind was unhelpful and cited Mackan allegedly being a problem in other ways, then toned it right down to a fair one sentence opinion, which allowed the thread to be concluded fairly (no alteration to the log was made; the discussion at ANI is sufficient for Mackan to rebut allegations if raised in future). SV has stated she wishes to avoid Mackan and have him avoid her, and has not suggested raising any case on the matter as far as I know.

Upon review, I don't actually see an Arbitration need here. The dispute was quiet, and probably will be quiet. If Mackan visibly follows SV around and discomfits her, then there is a wealth of remedy in various policies and guidelines to deal with it, which she or anyone else can invoke. Arbitration is the last resort of this, and yet whilst it is laudable to seek to help others, it is not at all clear to me that "other measures have failed" (or even that there is a genuiinely active problem of a magnitude to need it at present). Indeed most measures have not been sought or tried. And the concern that possible misconduct by Mackan (if a problem) could not be addressed by those processes seems unsupported at this time. The one circumstance I would accept would be if there was strong evidence of harassment by Mackan that could not be shown on-wiki which was of such a nature that it would be material to assessing the matter and yet could not be made public. Even then an Arbitrator might post that they have seen material X which shows Y, for some kinds of material. The other matter is, SV herself has not sought any action save avoidance of dispute, a sensible approach. This brief spat is due to a misjudged post of hers that she very quickly withdrew, and which he too withdrew his response to in recognition of her withdrawal, both of them apparently seeking to avoid dispute. Posting his comment to her talk page instead, for discussion, is not under that circumstance, an action I would say signifies an arbitration case is proven needed for stalking.

... If Mackan visibly follows SV around and discomfits her, then there is a wealth of remedy in various policies and guidelines to deal with it, which she or anyone else can invoke...

I decided to put their edits in the same spreadsheet I've used previously. Going back to September 18, 2006 (SlimVirgin's last 25,000 edits, and the last 9120 or so for Crum375), they have 385 edit collisions—that is, they edited during the same minute 385 times. I've also made these graphs that suggest that Crum375 lives on more regular hours, while SlimVirgin definitely does not.

Of course, Tony would tell you that these methods are untested so mean nothing. I just thought you should keep them in mind. If you still think SlimVirgin might have access to the Crum375 account, perhaps you could look at the edits that Crum375 made in the early morning when the account usually does not. I, at least, would demand a smoking gun, because I'm not seeing it here.

See also:

* Image:SlimVirgin Crum 4 month sample.png‎
* Image:Crum only.png
* Image:SlimVirgin only.png

Cool Hand Luke 16:42, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I have to head off for a bit. I'll reply to the rest when I come back. SlimVirgin (talk)(contribs) 22:48, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

...folk lore has it you don't have a life ... Spenny 23:15, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

This page has seen a lot of personal attacks, which you are also engaged in, Spenny, referring to other editors' posts as ignorant and offensive, telling me you thought I had no life, and accusing editors of tag-teaming. All the personal attacks needs to stop, and the issues focused on. SlimVirgin (talk)(contribs) 22:48, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The section in the archive 3RR is a classic, Crum calmly stating that 3RR between tag team members is perfectly legitimate and in no way against the spirit of the law - here.

This is one of the main problems currently with Wikipedia. It should be very easy to determine if a group of users is acting as a a team in reverting articles and subverting 3RR. They should then be warned about and if they don't stop, given a short block, and if they persist ultimately a permanent block.

Why is it that WP draws so many gamers (MMPORG) and drama queens?

I think he said "cockpuppet" on Mackan's talk page too. Must have been intentional :-D

I think it was an accident, there was a thread on one of the noticeboards where he asked if the block log could be purged by a developer to remove both the block and the unblock message.

Crum375 is SlimVirgin at least part of the time. Everyone is aware of this, but SlimVirgin is a difficult character to deal with, and thus we (or at least many of us) pretend to not recognize this obvious relationship.

How would we know or prove it's sometimes her?

How would we know or prove it's sometimes her?

Crum375 is SlimVirgin at least part of the time. Everyone is aware of this, but SlimVirgin is a difficult character to deal with, and thus we (or at least many of us) pretend to not recognize this obvious relationship.