Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Brandt problems a-stirring again
> Wikimedia Discussion > Articles > Biographies of Living Persons
Alison
Well, it looks like the Brandt war is set to continue ad infinitum, as I now see editors warring to add the name "Daniel Brandt" to the Brandt (T-H-L-K-D) disambiguation page. This flares up every six months and the name is removed once again. When the kerfuffle dies down, someone tiptoes in to re-add it. Lather-rinse-repeat dry.gif

I'm no fan of Brandt (do I have to keep qualifying my comments??) but this just seems like petty retribution at this stage; "His article and redirects were deleted but we'll damn-well get his name in somewhere!" It sure seems like it at this stage mad.gif

Why on earth won't people just let it go already??

EDIT: And having left, I find myself being dragged back there to fight the case for removing the name. That's messed up wacko.gif

AND AGAIN: Earlier today, John Nevard created [[WP:WEAK]] as a redirect to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Daniel Brandt (14th nomination) (T-H-L-K-D) - it was then posted at RfD by Fozzie but Tznkai mercifully deleted it anyways. What's going on with the Brandt stuff???
EricBarbour
QUOTE(Alison @ Wed 12th November 2008, 1:42am) *

Why on earth won't people just let it go already??

Your optimism about WP is commendable, you have more patience than I do for such nonsense.

If you went to a high school and passed out automatic weapons to students, do you think they would treat the guns with respect and fear 100% of the time? 90%? 80%?

Does this sound like a responsible adult?:

QUOTE
especially given his recent antics, Wikipedia is not supposed to be evil and childish

Just saying.
Doc glasgow
QUOTE(Alison @ Wed 12th November 2008, 1:42am) *

Why on earth won't people just let it go already??



Meh, trolls always like to poke their sticks into things to see what the reaction is. Then they can come over all "victimish" when either Brandt attacks them, or sensible wikipedians hit them with blunt objects.

It is basically a cry for attention from insecure schoolboys.


Alison, word of advice, don't lawyer with these idiots, brute force is the only language.
Gold heart
QUOTE(Alison @ Wed 12th November 2008, 1:42am) *

Why on earth won't people just let it go already??

Do dogs bark?

Do skunks smell?

Are wikidiots idiots? QED huh.gif




Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(Alison @ Wed 12th November 2008, 1:42am) *

AND AGAIN: Earlier today, John Nevard created [[WP:WEAK]] as a redirect to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Daniel Brandt (14th nomination) (T-H-L-K-D) - it was then posted at RfD by Fozzie but Tznkai mercifully deleted it anyways. What's going on with the Brandt stuff???


QUOTE
John Nevard at Talk:Brandt

I'm absolutely agreed that Wikipedia is not here to hurt people, but if you want to ensure that it does not, removing fraudulent claims from articles on fraudulent cancer cures that cause actual deaths might be a way to do some good. Waterblasting a bit of whitewash off pyramid schemes might be another. Rant about Vietnam Vets stabbing Brandt in his old folks home Why not link to a person notable for his conspiracy 'research' as the prime mover of Public Information Research? -- Nevard 11:05, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Lol, my bad. The PIR article has been deleted? Without even getting into the laughable bullshit by Brandt-puppets over whois record transfers from 'PIR' to 'PIR, with records hidden' or 'Daniel Brandt, with records hidden' this is hugely weak. -- Nevard


John Nevard is a hyperactive troll, who seems to be teflon-coated. Who granted him a license to troll?
Kato
The person known as Kotniski (T-C-L-K-R-D) also seems keen to resume Wiki-war against biographical subjects by pushing for Brandt's inclusion.

He describes himself thus:

QUOTE(Kotniski)
I don't really do user pages, but all you need to know about me is that I'm a Brit with a PhD in mathematics (obtained a very long time ago), living in Poland (again since a very long time ago), occasionally occupied with work of various forms, kids, girlfriends, sleep, etc., though I try to prevent any of these things from keeping me away from Wikipedia for too long. My main contribution to Wikipedia is donkeywork, mostly in the obscure field of Polish geography, though occasionally I do something to earn popular loathing within the wider Wikipedia community. In particular I waste a lot of time trying (usually unsuccessfully) to make Wikipedia's policies and guidelines sane and rational. My faithful companion Kotbot (contribs) is doggedly working towards the goal of putting Poland alongside the US at the bottom right of this wonderful illustration.


I consider the Brandt biography, and the Seth Finkelstein biography for that matter, as test cases to observe just how anti-social Wikipedia can get. How vindictive, how intrusive, how negative, and so on.

I think it was Brandt himself who noted that Wikipedia has no learning curve. There seems little way of forcing decent practices in the long term. Even if some sort of agreement is established, there is nothing to prevent Shape-Shifting Denny Colts and John Nevards appearing in a new disguise to resume the harassment.

This farce will continue until someone ends up in jail.
AlioTheFool
I guess "Nevard" wants to prove he's as petty and vindictive as Brandt himself. Would be impressive if he could pull it off.
Selina
QUOTE(AlioTheFool @ Wed 12th November 2008, 3:51pm) *

I guess "Nevard" wants to prove he's as petty and vindictive as Brandt himself. Would be impressive if he could pull it off.

Shouldn't think SV would still feel the need to by now...

I find myself agreeing though I wouldn't before but he's proved to everyone this was never about Wikipedia now, just his own petty ego trip. He deserves whatever comes to him!
EricBarbour
QUOTE(Kato @ Wed 12th November 2008, 7:47am) *

This farce will continue until someone ends up in jail.

And thereafter. You have to toss ALL of them in jail to make an "impression". Sadly not practical.
Moulton
QUOTE(Alison @ Wed 12th November 2008, 1:42am) *
Why on earth won't people just let it go already??

When someone engages in a recurring issue, it's a good bet there is something comparable in their own personal backstory that remains naggingly unresolved.

Ask yourself what these adolescents are trying to learn, that our education system has failed to teach them.

You've identified the dichotomy between Retributive Justice and Restorative Justice as a major component of the issue. Since our culture unwisely teaches the former rather than the latter, it remains a cultural neurosis that gets reified in the pages of the sudsy operatics of Wikipedia's long-running drama engine.

What's needed here is therapeutic education. But that education is going to have to be packaged up in the form of a post-modern comic opera that sets a new standard in edutainment that transcends Dilbert & Sullivan, transcends Bugs Bunny vs. Elmer Fudd, transcends Roadrunner vs. Wiley Coyote, and even transcends Buffy, Gilmore Girls, and The Matrix.

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Wed 12th November 2008, 5:18am) *
It is basically a cry for attention from insecure schoolboys.

Alison, word of advice, don't lawyer with these idiots, brute force is the only language.

Yes, it's a cry for attention, to attend to a bug in their cultural education. But neither lawyering nor clubbing is the answer.

What these kids need is a custom-crafted comic opera that addresses their unmet educational needs.

See, for example, this number: Web Side Story.

QUOTE(Eric Barbour)
QUOTE(Moulton)
You've identified the dichotomy between Retributive Justice and Restorative Justice as a major component of the issue. Since our culture unwisely teaches the former rather than the latter, it remains a cultural neurosis that gets reified in the pages of the sudsy operatics of Wikipedia's long-running drama engine.

What's needed here is therapeutic education. But that education is going to have to be packaged up in the form of a post-modern comic opera that sets a new standard in edutainment that transcends Dilbert & Sullivan, transcends Bugs Bunny vs. Elmer Fudd, transcends Roadrunner vs. Wiley Coyote, and even transcends Buffy, Gilmore Girls, and The Matrix.
Well put. You do realize that restorative justice is generally too subtle for apes. Every ape thinks he or she is an island, or maybe a universe if you're talking about a real egomaniac.

Perhaps we should force all the admins to watch W. I saw it last night. Subtle but effective mockery of Mr. Bush, as a crude and shallow retributive personality with little regard for others or for the rule of law.

It was apparently too subtle for Bush to figure out that Oliver Stone was not being complementary to him:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Movies/11/...sh.w/index.html

This is the ironic dilemma of the Wikisphere. On the one hand, the project advertises itself as the sum of all human knowledge.

But when it comes to demonstrating that knowledge to students, educators and scholars around the world, the dominant players in the Wikisphere regress to anachronistic governance practices that predate not only the Age of Enlightenment, they even predate the advent of the Rule of Law itself.

But since the Wikisphere is thus also host to endless reruns of the oldest and most fundamental stories and political dramas in the annals of human history, it occurs to me that the optimal strategy is to exploit that drama engine to intentionally reprise the most efficacious versions of those dramatic passages in the historical record chronicling the advance of civilization from the pre-Hammurabic era down through the ages to modern times.

The contrast between GWB and Barack Obama will help to highlight this cultural learning curve of Western Civilization.

The epoch of the Reptilian Right is ending, and Wikipedia will be host to that angst-ridden apocalypse by way of its native Post-Modern Theater of the Absurd.
GlassBeadGame
QUOTE(Selina @ Wed 12th November 2008, 12:06pm) *

QUOTE(AlioTheFool @ Wed 12th November 2008, 3:51pm) *

I guess "Nevard" wants to prove he's as petty and vindictive as Brandt himself. Would be impressive if he could pull it off.

Shouldn't think SV would still feel the need to by now...

I find myself agreeing though I wouldn't before but he's proved to everyone this was never about Wikipedia now, just his own petty ego trip. He deserves whatever comes to him!


Just what we all need, an "encyclopedia" that gives people what they "deserve."
Doc glasgow
You do realise that Mr Brandt still has a Wikipedia biography!



Alison
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 13th November 2008, 2:01am) *

You do realise that Mr Brandt still has a Wikipedia biography!


... complete with links to WW and Hivemind! ohmy.gif

How long before we see Brandt going gunning for French admins, then? ("Cerveau de ruche"?? biggrin.gif )

EDIT: And the talk page has some fascinating dialog, with Squeaky weighing in, and some French editor talking about the other language articles being, "filled with slander by users like SlimVirgin or Jayjg." ohmy.gif ohmy.gif And, of course, there's a link to WR smile.gif
Piperdown
more insight into the mysterious southern florida power rump ranger:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=210596862

maybe his name refers to his curiosity about the subject of that edit as well.
JohnA
It would be even quicker for Daniel to get rid of the French autobio as France as very strict privacy laws.
Gold heart
QUOTE(JohnA @ Thu 13th November 2008, 12:07pm) *

It would be even quicker for Daniel to get rid of the French autobio as France as very strict privacy laws.

Then Wikipedia is in 'big trouble' in France. ohmy.gif

And why is it just a handful of admins trying to sort out this BLP issue? Apathy! Or complicity perhaps? The silence of the majority is deafening! huh.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.