Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: "Psychologist finds Wikipedians grumpy and closed-minded "
> Media Forums > News Worth Discussing
Son of a Yeti
A New Scientist article
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1634...ml?DCMP=OTC-rss
about findings of a psychologist on the typical Wikipedian psychological profile.

QUOTE

As Amichai-Hamburger expected, the Wikipedians were more comfortable online. "They feel the internet is a more meaningful place to them," he says. But to his surprise, although Wikipedia is founded on the notion of openly sharing and collecting knowledge as a community, they scored low on agreeableness and openness.


I wonder whether this is a result of negative selection. That is most of the open minded and bold editors have already been banned or discouraged by the admins' actions.
Kato
I don't know if it is the same study - but a recent psychology report revealed:

"Wikipedia members score lower on traits of agreeableness, conscientiousness and openness."

thread about that here:

http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=20875
Somey
It's always nice when scientific studies verify and validate common-sense conclusions that are obvious to anyone with direct experience of the situation.
everyking
I agree that the personalities that tend to dominate on Wikipedia match those characteristics. Perhaps it's because the administrative culture on Wikipedia allows such personalities to thrive, by rewarding individuals who act "boldly" on their own say so. Alternatively, it might be that personalities who gravitate towards prolific participation on websites are more likely to have those traits...I suspect there's something more to it, though, because the Wikipedia culture has more of this kind of thing than nearly every other web community I've experienced.
EricBarbour
Must blog this.......must blog this.......
Crestatus
They are definitely on to something.

I'll admit to being more comfortable on the Net instead of IRL, as I had an inherited speech impairment that often leaves me tongue tied. Typed text makes it far easier to communicate.
Son of a Yeti
QUOTE(emesee @ Sun 4th January 2009, 11:24pm) *


I started a thread on this recently and it was not even the first one unhappy.gif

I propose to merge.
thekohser
We may want to look into this, from my old buddy, old pal, Nihiltres.

QUOTE

I'd heard of this study earlier, and it seems to be one of those studies that's interesting in theory, but probably useless in practice. Seeing that people outside the Wikipedia community are interested in it, I decided to take a look.

The first thing that jumps out at me is that the report does not describe how the participants were found—the closest thing to a hint is that "[t]he data were collected via online questionnaires". This does not inspire confidence. From the news I've heard, it's my understanding that it collected (mostly?) Israelis; this calls into question whether Israelis, Israeli Wikipedians, or Israeli non-Wikipedians are representative of the wider community (and non-community). I suspect that it is not representative, not to mention the small sample size.

The second thing that jumps out at me is that if you look at the data table provided in the report, Wikipedians scored *higher* on the openness trait. The table gives a mean score of 3.75 for male Wikipedians (SD 0.63) compared with a mean score of 3.55 for male non-Wikipedians (SD 0.51), and a mean score of 3.92 for female Wikipedians (SD 0.38) compared with 3.64 (SD 0.59) for female non-Wikipedians. There's clearly a major error here, given that the paper is claiming, in its conclusion, that Wikipedians have less openness.

This may have been caused by what appears to be a copy-and-paste error evident in the text. Below the text reading "the average of the agreeableness trait among the Wikipedia members is significantly lower as compared with that of participants who are not Wikipedia members" the text mentions "In addition, a significant difference was found in the openness trait […]" followed by a verbatim copy of the previous text regarding agreeableness—an incongruous phrasing, to say the least! smile.gif

This paper looks to be a trainwreck: when the conclusion is not supported by the data published in the paper, with such an elementary mistake in the text, the paper fails to be convincing. The fact that the sample is probably not representative of the population to be studied is also troubling.

I'd find it interesting if Wikipedians did overall score much differently—and I'd find it further interesting if Wikipedians were markedly different from the denizens of other Internet fora—but this study simply doesn't inspire confidence at a basic level, let alone one worthy of rigorous peer review.

(Disclosure: I am a volunteer administrator on Wikipedia.)

P.S. As far as I can tell, no one on the Wikipedia Review has noticed this basic error, despite a number of snarky anti-Wikipedia comments. Surely that says something about the quality of the discussion there, thekohser, that I need not put into words. wink.gif


Woah, betcha didn't think I'd actually follow up on this with such ethical fortitude, huh, Nihiltres?
emesee
well, what do our anecdotal experiences tell us about the reality and truth of the situation?
Angela Kennedy
QUOTE

I'd heard of this study earlier, and it seems to be one of those studies that's interesting in theory, but probably useless in practice. Seeing that people outside the Wikipedia community are interested in it, I decided to take a look.

The first thing that jumps out at me is that the report does not describe how the participants were found—the closest thing to a hint is that "[t]he data were collected via online questionnaires". This does not inspire confidence. From the news I've heard, it's my understanding that it collected (mostly?) Israelis; this calls into question whether Israelis, Israeli Wikipedians, or Israeli non-Wikipedians are representative of the wider community (and non-community). I suspect that it is not representative, not to mention the small sample size.

The second thing that jumps out at me is that if you look at the data table provided in the report, Wikipedians scored *higher* on the openness trait. The table gives a mean score of 3.75 for male Wikipedians (SD 0.63) compared with a mean score of 3.55 for male non-Wikipedians (SD 0.51), and a mean score of 3.92 for female Wikipedians (SD 0.38) compared with 3.64 (SD 0.59) for female non-Wikipedians. There's clearly a major error here, given that the paper is claiming, in its conclusion, that Wikipedians have less openness.

This may have been caused by what appears to be a copy-and-paste error evident in the text. Below the text reading "the average of the agreeableness trait among the Wikipedia members is significantly lower as compared with that of participants who are not Wikipedia members" the text mentions "In addition, a significant difference was found in the openness trait […]" followed by a verbatim copy of the previous text regarding agreeableness—an incongruous phrasing, to say the least! smile.gif

This paper looks to be a trainwreck: when the conclusion is not supported by the data published in the paper, with such an elementary mistake in the text, the paper fails to be convincing. The fact that the sample is probably not representative of the population to be studied is also troubling.

I'd find it interesting if Wikipedians did overall score much differently—and I'd find it further interesting if Wikipedians were markedly different from the denizens of other Internet fora—but this study simply doesn't inspire confidence at a basic level, let alone one worthy of rigorous peer review.

(Disclosure: I am a volunteer administrator on Wikipedia.)





I'd add to this critique the problem of 'trait measurement' often being subject to psychologist's fallacies in the way 'traits' are constructed by researchers, a common hazard in all 'psychological' or 'psychometric' tests. A key example of this elsewhere is 'negative affectivity', where a negative appraisal of a situation by a person (even temporarily) is posed as a personal and 'maladaptive' 'trait' rather than a quite rational response to negative circumstances!

'Agreeableness' is a vague concept at best, as is 'openness'. Both constructs- presuming you have a way of accurately measuring them (I don't think there is) are also subject to potential (I'd say actual) psychologists's fallacies in the way they are constructed as 'normal' or 'psychopathological' or 'maladaptive' traits by researchers.

See, look at me. I'm defendin teh wikipedians... wink.gif Still, it's been published by secondary sources. No matter what its flaws, by Wikipedian logic it has to be published as verified evidence, no matter how poor the peer review process might have been to let it in. And if 'Nihiltres' doesn't buy that, Kohs, DO tell him to go and look over on all the 'CFS' pages.
Somey
QUOTE(emesee @ Sun 28th June 2009, 10:46pm) *
well, what do our anecdotal experiences tell us about the reality and truth of the situation?

This is perhaps the most incisive and smart one-liner you've contributed yet, Mr. Emesee! smile.gif

Indeed, the only way IMO to properly "analyze" a group like the WP'ers is to collect as much anecdotal evidence as possible. Trying to quantify their behavior and turn it into a bunch of statistics is never gonna work, not leastwise because you simply can't know whether or not the people you're dealing with are who they say they are.

Still, it's nice that someone is trying, I suppose... I guess primarily-anecdotal studies aren't the sort of thing that get you an NSF grant, unfortunately.
Milton Roe
QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 29th June 2009, 1:46am) *

Still, it's nice that someone is trying, I suppose... I guess primarily-anecdotal studies aren't the sort of thing that get you an NSF grant, unfortunately.

Indeed. The NSF would take it especially hard to find that 2/3 of both their male and female responses had come from one single 52 year-old London statistician.

Hey, truncate THAT data! confused.gif
victim of censorship
QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 3rd January 2009, 5:16pm) *

It's always nice when scientific studies verify and validate common-sense conclusions that are obvious to anyone with direct experience of the situation.


OR in other words, Wikipedia is full of dimwits and jackasses.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.