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Daniel Brandt
This is as close as I can get to a photo of Coren (Marc-André Pelletier), but the label on this photo is sloppy and I don't know which one he is. He was on the "Growing Pains" panel, day two, at Wikimania 2009. I'm trying to add to my collection of arbitrators on hivemind.

Can anyone tell me if he's in this photo? I think that's Cary Bass on the left, so that leaves three choices: 1. solid light-colored shirt, 2. blue and white striped shirt, and 3. dark shirt on the extreme right.

There's an "ogg" video file here that's an hour and a half long, but I don't have a video player that can handle it. While the resolution on that video is horrible, it may at least offer a clue as to who is who, if all else fails. But someone must know the answer without going to all the trouble of listening to it.
Obesity
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 9th February 2010, 1:10am) *

This is as close as I can get to a photo of Coren (Marc-André Pelletier), but the label on this photo is sloppy and I don't know which one he is. He was on the "Growing Pains" panel, day two, at Wikimania 2009. I'm trying to add to my collection of arbitrators on hivemind.

Can anyone tell me if he's in this photo? I think that's Cary Bass on the left, so that leaves three choices: 1. solid light-colored shirt, 2. blue and white striped shirt, and 3. dark shirt on the extreme right.

There's an "ogg" video file here that's an hour and a half long, but I don't have a video player that can handle it. While the resolution on that video is horrible, it may at least offer a clue as to who is who, if all else fails. But someone must know the answer without going to all the trouble of listening to it.


blue and white striped shirt definitely looks like Kirill Lokshin
Somey
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 9th February 2010, 12:10am) *
Can anyone tell me if he's in this photo? I think that's Cary Bass on the left, so that leaves three choices: 1. solid light-colored shirt, 2. blue and white striped shirt, and 3. dark shirt on the extreme right.

Sorry, he's not in the photo - from left to right it's Cary Bass, Kat Walsh, Jimbo, James Forrester, Kirill Lokshin, and Fayssal. Coren is probably the one at the speaker's lectern in the video, and I'm afraid he has a bit of a lisp, doesn't he? ermm.gif
EricBarbour
What's really depressing about that photoset: the pics in which various nerdy guys pose next to Richard Stallman.
That guy is a smelly old hippie, and not a "celebrity" by even the most twisted logic.

That is one meeting I'm happy to miss. A sea of pasty nerds with their noses buried in laptops.
And every damn one of them convinced that their mess is the greatest creation in academic history.
BelovedFox
QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Tue 9th February 2010, 8:51am) *

What's really depressing about that photoset: the pics in which various nerdy guys pose next to Richard Stallman.
That guy is a smelly old hippie, and not a "celebrity" by even the most twisted logic.

That is one meeting I'm happy to miss. A sea of pasty nerds with their noses buried in laptops.
And every damn one of them convinced that their mess is the greatest creation in academic history.


The wiki meetups I've been to were a lot of fun, but I do think that Wikimania probably attracts the hardcore of the hardcore and not necessarily the people I'd want to see. At the least, there were no laptops out at my meetup... why go somewhere if you can do that from the comfort of your own home?

As to the topic: the only person it could be in the photo is extreme right, but as Somey suggests that's probably not him. The rest (save Jimbo) I've met.
Daniel Brandt
QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 9th February 2010, 12:37am) *

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 9th February 2010, 12:10am) *
Can anyone tell me if he's in this photo? I think that's Cary Bass on the left, so that leaves three choices: 1. solid light-colored shirt, 2. blue and white striped shirt, and 3. dark shirt on the extreme right.

Sorry, he's not in the photo - from left to right it's Cary Bass, Kat Walsh, Jimbo, James Forrester, Kirill Lokshin, and Fayssal. Coren is probably the one at the speaker's lectern in the video, and I'm afraid he has a bit of a lisp, doesn't he? ermm.gif

Since Coren was listed by Wikimedia.org as the official presenter of "Growing Pains," I'm now guessing that he was permanently stationed at the lectern, given that there don't appear to be additional seats at the table.

Somey, you obviously ran part of video file if you know what he sounds like. If you can send me your best (highest-resolution) screen shot of the man behind the lectern, I will hunt for a better photo. There are a lot of photos of Wikimania 2009 posted on Flickr and perhaps other sites, where the people in the photos are not identified. A low-res screen shot might allow me to find a better photo by comparing them. I'm hoping that once you start the video, you might be able to capture something more useful for me than what I can barely see on that static page. Get some more of his shirt if you can — maybe he steps away from the lectern a bit more?
carbuncle
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 9th February 2010, 6:10am) *

There's an "ogg" video file here that's an hour and a half long, but I don't have a video player that can handle it. While the resolution on that video is horrible, it may at least offer a clue as to who is who, if all else fails. But someone must know the answer without going to all the trouble of listening to it.

Somey is right, Coren is the speaker at the podium. The video is a static shot from far away so you won't see any more than in the screenshot.

(It looks like I posted my reply just as Mr Brandt was posing his question to Somey. The camera actually zooms out a few seconds into the video so everyone gets slightly smaller. Coren never steps away from the podium. I honestly can't tell if he wears glasses or has a beard, or evn if his shirt has long or short sleeves. )
A Horse With No Name
Well, it is a safe bet that this Marc-Andre Pelletier is not the one we are looking for. rolleyes.gif

This one, however, may be a closer fit.
Daniel Brandt
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 9th February 2010, 8:15am) *

Well, it is a safe bet that this Marc-Andre Pelletier is not the one we are looking for. rolleyes.gif

This one, however, may be a closer fit.

Possibly, but it would be risky. He has a lot of namesakes in the Montreal area. That's why I won't list him on hivemind without a pic. Coren is about 40 years old, and said two years ago, "I've been a sysadmin for a bit over 20 years, most of past 10 with Linux."
Daniel Brandt
I finally got that video running, and the only clue I came away with is that it looks like Coren is wearing a dark baseball cap with a white logo in front. There is someone in other Wikimania 2009 pics who has a baseball cap like that, but my confidence is too low to go with it.

Image Image

I don't want to implicate anyone. This guy, for example, might be a candidate, except that if he started teaching in 1988, then if he is about 40 now it means he started teaching at age 18. (There is, however, a resemblance to that pic from Wikimania!)

In his 2008 Arbcom answer, Coren says, "I'm a male homo sapiens getting dangerously close to his forties, currently living in a suburb of Montréal, in Québec."

Being an arbitrator on Wikipedia is bad enough, but Coren also administers a porn site. That's why I want to avoid making a mistake.
Obesity
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 9th February 2010, 12:41pm) *

I finally got that video running, and the only clue I came away with is that it looks like Coren is wearing a dark baseball cap with a white logo in front. There is someone in other Wikimania pics who has a baseball cap like that, but my confidence is too low to go with it.


When did you become so careful about verifying the authenticity of your Hivemind content? I say just post it anyway.

I'm still LOLing from that picture you posted of Boobie Gibson.
Obesity
QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 9th February 2010, 1:37am) *

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 9th February 2010, 12:10am) *
Can anyone tell me if he's in this photo? I think that's Cary Bass on the left, so that leaves three choices: 1. solid light-colored shirt, 2. blue and white striped shirt, and 3. dark shirt on the extreme right.

Sorry, he's not in the photo - from left to right it's Cary Bass, Kat Walsh, Jimbo, James Forrester, Kirill Lokshin, and Fayssal. Coren is probably the one at the speaker's lectern in the video, and I'm afraid he has a bit of a lisp, doesn't he? ermm.gif


I think Fayssal is kind of handsome. wub.gif
A Horse With No Name
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 9th February 2010, 12:41pm) *

I finally got that video running, and the only clue I came away with is that it looks like Coren is wearing a dark baseball cap with a white logo in front. There is someone in other Wikimania 2009 pics who has a baseball cap like that, but my confidence is too low to go with it.


They look like the same guy to me. Either that or two near-identical men wearing the exact same cap -- a bit of a coincidence, no? smile.gif

QUOTE(Obesity @ Tue 9th February 2010, 1:01pm) *

I think Fayssal is kind of handsome. wub.gif


You have the worst taste in men! biggrin.gif
Somey
Daniel should use the photo in this Facebook page and just crop it to the guy in the middle. It's probably not him, but he'll be so embarrassed that he'll probably send him an 8x10 glossy just to get the thing removed!

I gotta say though, the guy speaking from the lectern in that OGG video didn't sound like a 40-year-old to me, he sounded more like a 20-year-old. Maybe he just has a well-preserved voice, but by the time most guys turn 40 their voices get a little deeper and more gravelly-sounding than that.
Daniel Brandt
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 9th February 2010, 12:25pm) *

They look like the same guy to me. Either that or two near-identical men wearing the exact same cap -- a bit of a coincidence, no? smile.gif

No, no, no, Horse. Of course the two pics from Wikimania are the same person. I meant that he bears a resemblance to the person in the Linkedin photo that I linked to, in the sentence "This guy, for example..."
Milton Roe
QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 9th February 2010, 11:36am) *

Daniel should use the photo in this Facebook page and just crop it to the guy in the middle. It's probably not him, but he'll be so embarrassed that he'll probably send him an 8x10 glossy just to get the thing removed!

I gotta say though, the guy speaking from the lectern in that OGG video didn't sound like a 40-year-old to me, he sounded more like a 20-year-old. Maybe he just has a well-preserved voice, but by the time most guys turn 40 their voices get a little deeper and more gravelly-sounding than that.

If they smoke. Otherwise, the voice is one of the most well-preserved things about a person. Until they get to the stage of "wit single, voice treble" of poor Falstaff.

Saw Bill Murray on Anthony Bourdain last night. He looks like hell, but he's a lot older than in Groundhog Day, and out in the real world, time keeps on slipping, slipping. Close your eyes, though, and there's no difference.
A Horse With No Name
QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Tue 9th February 2010, 1:41pm) *

QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 9th February 2010, 11:36am) *

Daniel should use the photo in this Facebook page and just crop it to the guy in the middle. It's probably not him, but he'll be so embarrassed that he'll probably send him an 8x10 glossy just to get the thing removed!

I gotta say though, the guy speaking from the lectern in that OGG video didn't sound like a 40-year-old to me, he sounded more like a 20-year-old. Maybe he just has a well-preserved voice, but by the time most guys turn 40 their voices get a little deeper and more gravelly-sounding than that.

If they smoke. Otherwise, the voice is one of the most well-preserved things about a person. Until they get to the stage of "wit single, voice treble" of poor Falstaff.



I know a lot of middle-aged men who sound like tween girls. wacko.gif
Milton Roe
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 9th February 2010, 11:48am) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Tue 9th February 2010, 1:41pm) *

QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 9th February 2010, 11:36am) *

Daniel should use the photo in this Facebook page and just crop it to the guy in the middle. It's probably not him, but he'll be so embarrassed that he'll probably send him an 8x10 glossy just to get the thing removed!

I gotta say though, the guy speaking from the lectern in that OGG video didn't sound like a 40-year-old to me, he sounded more like a 20-year-old. Maybe he just has a well-preserved voice, but by the time most guys turn 40 their voices get a little deeper and more gravelly-sounding than that.

If they smoke. Otherwise, the voice is one of the most well-preserved things about a person. Until they get to the stage of "wit single, voice treble" of poor Falstaff.



I know a lot of middle-aged men who sound like tween girls. wacko.gif

Andropause. Help may be just a shot of juice away. smile.gif

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 9th February 2010, 11:40am) *

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 9th February 2010, 12:25pm) *

They look like the same guy to me. Either that or two near-identical men wearing the exact same cap -- a bit of a coincidence, no? smile.gif

No, no, no, Horse. Of course the two pics from Wikimania are the same person. I meant that he bears a resemblance to the person in the Linkedin photo that I linked to, in the sentence "This guy, for example..."

Looks a lot like the guy in the meetup, but if the guy on linkedin was really fomally employed in 1983, he's just too old (as I think was pointed out). Unless our WP person simply lied about being on the low side of 40 (however close) in 2008. Even if he turned 40 in 2008, he'd have been born 1968 and been 15 in 1983, 16 at the outside. Is that possible? I don't know Canadian employment law (or anything about Canadian CV padding).
A Horse With No Name
QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Tue 9th February 2010, 1:54pm) *

Looks a lot like the guy in the meetup, but if the guy on linkedin was really fomally employed in 1983, he's just too old (as I think was pointed out). Unless our WP person simply lied about being on the low side of 40 (however close) in 2008. Even if he turned 40 in 2008, he'd have been born 1968 and been 15 in 1983, 16 at the outside. Is that possible? I don't know Canadian employment law (or anything about Canadian CV padding).


Then, again, the LinkedIn guy may not be him. Do a Facebook search for that name and you get a ton of guys.
carbuncle
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 9th February 2010, 7:07pm) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Tue 9th February 2010, 1:54pm) *

Looks a lot like the guy in the meetup, but if the guy on linkedin was really fomally employed in 1983, he's just too old (as I think was pointed out). Unless our WP person simply lied about being on the low side of 40 (however close) in 2008. Even if he turned 40 in 2008, he'd have been born 1968 and been 15 in 1983, 16 at the outside. Is that possible? I don't know Canadian employment law (or anything about Canadian CV padding).


Then, again, the LinkedIn guy may not be him. Do a Facebook search for that name and you get a ton of guys.

I wonder if he knows Mel Lefevbre? tongue.gif
CharlotteWebb
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 9th February 2010, 7:07pm) *

Then, again, the LinkedIn guy may not be him. Do a Facebook search for that name and you get a ton of guys.

Okay, do any of them have "friends" easily recognizable as arbcombatants...?
A Horse With No Name
Did anyone think to email Coren and just ask, "Hey, is this bearded character in the baseball cap really you?" ermm.gif
Somey
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 9th February 2010, 11:41am) *
There is someone in other Wikimania 2009 pics who has a baseball cap like that, but my confidence is too low to go with it.

Image Image

That's Leo Fishman.

It's the same guy as the one in this photo, and if you look at the largest version, you can zoom in his name-tag enough to read it.

Apparently he lives in Buenos Aires, where he owns a bicycle. I'd be surprised if he even has an account on the English Wikipedia, but whoever he is, he's probably not Fishman92 (T-C-L-K-R-D) , founder of the "Fishmaniacs Network."

Also, I gotta say, having seen the original photo from which Leo's headshot above was cropped, the South American WP'ers tend to be much better-looking than their North American counterparts! wub.gif
Cla68
QUOTE(Somey @ Wed 10th February 2010, 4:23am) *

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 9th February 2010, 11:41am) *
There is someone in other Wikimania 2009 pics who has a baseball cap like that, but my confidence is too low to go with it.

Image Image

That's Leo Fishman.

It's the same guy as the one in this photo, and if you look at the largest version, you can zoom in his name-tag enough to read it.

Apparently he lives in Buenos Aires, where he owns a bicycle. I'd be surprised if he even has an account on the English Wikipedia, but whoever he is, he's probably not Fishman92 (T-C-L-K-R-D) , founder of the "Fishmaniacs Network."

Also, I gotta say, having seen the original photo from which Leo's headshot above was cropped, the South American WP'ers tend to be much better-looking than their North American counterparts! wub.gif


The Argentinian Critical Mass riders also appear to be much better looking and in better shape (except for that guy in the left foreground) than their North American counterparts. In contrast to their North American comrades, it appears that many of them, if not most, may actually ride their bicycles on days that they're not participating in a Critical Mass protest.
carbuncle
QUOTE(Somey @ Wed 10th February 2010, 4:23am) *

That's Leo Fishman.

It's the same guy as the one in this photo, and if you look at the largest version, you can zoom in his name-tag enough to read it.

Apparently he lives in Buenos Aires, where he owns a bicycle. I'd be surprised if he even has an account on the English Wikipedia, but whoever he is, he's probably not Fishman92 (T-C-L-K-R-D) , founder of the "Fishmaniacs Network."

Also, I gotta say, having seen the original photo from which Leo's headshot above was cropped, the South American WP'ers tend to be much better-looking than their North American counterparts! wub.gif

Leo Fishman! Of course it is, how silly of me - I've met him at the Argentinian Nacktreiten meet-ups! I didn't recognize him with his clothes on. wink.gif
Coren
QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 9th February 2010, 9:02am) *

Somey is right, Coren is the speaker at the podium. The video is a static shot from far away so you won't see any more than in the screenshot.

(It looks like I posted my reply just as Mr Brandt was posing his question to Somey. The camera actually zooms out a few seconds into the video so everyone gets slightly smaller. Coren never steps away from the podium. I honestly can't tell if he wears glasses or has a beard, or evn if his shirt has long or short sleeves. )


I probably had my glasses on, though they are frameless and tend to be discreet even in good lighting conditions. No beard.

Incidentally, I have a rather squeaky voice when I talk (and mikes do evil things to it), but I sing a powerful bass. Go figure.

None of the pictures you guys have found are me -- and I doubt you can find any; I didn't see any Wikimania pictures that had me visible except from the back in a few crowd shots. None of the social site pictures either.

I'm half tempted to put you out of your misery by providing a picture provided you do not misstate my involvement with the dirty story site: I am the *system* administrator; saying that I administer it without qualification would be akin to say that the white house electrician administers the presidency.

-- Coren
Daniel Brandt
QUOTE(Coren @ Wed 10th February 2010, 4:43pm) *

I'm half tempted to put you out of your misery by providing a picture provided you do not misstate my involvement with the dirty story site: I am the *system* administrator; saying that I administer it without qualification would be akin to say that the white house electrician administers the presidency.

-- Coren

Here's my offer: provide a usable picture for hivemind, and a birthdate, and your "Coren" entry with that picture will look like this:

Marc-André Pelletier
aka Marc A. Pelletier
Montreal area, Quebec, Canada
Linux sysadmin, www.uberbox.org
born:yyyy-mm-dd





Trick cyclist
QUOTE(Daniel%20Brandt @ Wed 10th February 2010, 11:20pm) *

Here's my offer: provide a usable picture for hivemind, and a birthdate

As a matter of interest is there a photo of Daniel Brandt on Hivemind? You know, in the interests of consistency and all that? Jus' sayin'.
thekohser
QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 9th February 2010, 11:23pm) *

Also, I gotta say, having seen the original photo from which Leo's headshot above was cropped, the South American WP'ers tend to be much better-looking than their North American counterparts! wub.gif


I'm sure that at least some of the grown men attending the 2009 Wikimania conference in Argentina also found this young disciple to be much better-looking than even some of the adult females in attendance. I hope he got his parents' permission to be hangin' with the elders.
RMHED
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 11th February 2010, 2:07am) *

QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 9th February 2010, 11:23pm) *

Also, I gotta say, having seen the original photo from which Leo's headshot above was cropped, the South American WP'ers tend to be much better-looking than their North American counterparts! wub.gif


I'm sure that at least some of the grown men attending the 2009 Wikimania conference in Argentina also found this young disciple to be much better-looking than even some of the adult females in attendance. I hope he got his parents' permission to be hangin' with the elders.

You're sure?

Do you move in those kind of circles Greg?

Or would it be more accurate to say you're guessing?
A Horse With No Name
QUOTE(Coren @ Wed 10th February 2010, 5:43pm) *
I sing a powerful bass. Go figure.


Aha! Now we know who Coren really is:

Coren
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Wed 10th February 2010, 6:20pm) *

Here's my offer: provide a usable picture for hivemind, and a birthdate, and your "Coren" entry with that picture will look like this:



I'm still trying to find a half decent picture of myself that isn't overly old, but I'll admit I'm not so hot about giving you an exact birthday. I'll confirm, though, that I am 40 right now.

I am wondering about something however: in general "hive mind" means a group of people who all think exactly the same way and reinforce that pattern of groupthink to self-perpetuate; the selection of people on your page is about as diverse as one is likely to find on enwp: I see rabid eventualists, heavy-duty content writers, career mandarins, deletionists, hardline BLP enforcers... many of whom found themselves on opposite sides of numerous spats over the years. What, exactly, is the groupthink that is common to all of them? (Or all of us, I suppose I should say).

-- Coren
Somey
QUOTE(Coren @ Sun 14th February 2010, 9:56am) *
What, exactly, is the groupthink that is common to all of them? (Or all of us, I suppose I should say).

Good question, but IMO we have to remember that Daniel's main issue is personal accountability. It seems like a fairly safe assumption that everyone, or almost everyone, on that list supports the idea that allowing open/anonymous editing of highly-ranked content is a good thing, either openly or tacitly.

Don't get me wrong - some of the people on the list have actually indicated support for preventative features (i.e., flagged revisions, semi-protection of all BLP's) and/or policies to allow BLP article subjects some measure of redress and control (i.e., opt-out, "courtesy deletion," or even just "default to delete"). Because of that, maybe they don't belong on the list, or at least the same list, with the others - after all, in a true "hive mind" there's little room for contrary opinions on anything substantive. But either way, I'm not going to pretend that BLP-specific preventative features will go far enough, and Daniel is much more of a hard-liner than I am.

So... If I'm not mistaken, Daniel believes that anyone who participates "constructively" at all on Wikipedia, except perhaps for the purpose of ultimately undermining it, is still supporting the system - in other words, "the only good Wikipedian is an ex-Wikipedian."
Coren
QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 14th February 2010, 12:23pm) *

But either way, I'm not going to pretend that BLP-specific preventative features will go far enough, and Daniel is much more of a hard-liner than I am.



Well, I make no secret of my own position: enwp's inclusion criteria are way too lax in general, and disastrously so for biographies. (This, in fact, cost me some support in my elections). Preventative features will, at least, allow us to control the damage somewhat; but I'd favor a major cleanup.

The trick, of course, is how to manage to make this actually happen. Community projects are, in the end, at the mercy of the collective whim. All I can do, personally, is to push the committee in the "right" direction as much as I can, and hope that the cumulative effect pushes the entire project in the right direction too -- even if it's not as far as I would hope.

The alternative is to give up on the project entirely; and I'm really unable to figure out how that could possibly help. If everyone who thinks that Wikipedia's handling of biographies sucks leaves, the project will simply go on with only people who see nothing wrong with unverified "biographies" of people languishing years with no supervision at the top of Google results.

Daniel seems to be under the impression that this would, magically, reduce the impact Wikipedia has. It wouldn't. It'd just end up with even less control.

-- Coren
Lar
QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 14th February 2010, 12:23pm) *

QUOTE(Coren @ Sun 14th February 2010, 9:56am) *
What, exactly, is the groupthink that is common to all of them? (Or all of us, I suppose I should say).

Good question, but IMO we have to remember that Daniel's main issue is personal accountability. It seems like a fairly safe assumption that everyone, or almost everyone, on that list supports the idea that allowing open/anonymous editing of highly-ranked content is a good thing, either openly or tacitly.

Not me.

Near as I can tell I'm just on there because I don't take Brandt seriously enough, and that pisses him off.

QUOTE(Coren @ Sun 14th February 2010, 12:54pm) *

Daniel seems to be under the impression that this would, magically, reduce the impact Wikipedia has. It wouldn't. It'd just end up with even less control.

How dare you argue with Brandt? Don't bother trying to confuse him with logic or facts. Brandt is Right™ about Everything™ and everyone with any clue knows it. Get a grip, man.
Somey
QUOTE(Coren @ Sun 14th February 2010, 11:54am) *
The alternative is to give up on the project entirely; and I'm really unable to figure out how that could possibly help... (schnip) Daniel seems to be under the impression that this would, magically, reduce the impact Wikipedia has. It wouldn't. It'd just end up with even less control.

Well, don't get me wrong, fellas - I'm not really trying to defend Daniel's apparent policy of potentially including all WP contributors, regardless of their positions on BLP and related issues. There have been plenty of times when his insistence on this has been personally frustrating and upsetting for me, and at least twice I thought he was just being completely unreasonable. Nevertheless, I'm not going to say the idea of listing some WP'ers identities is fundamentally wrong, and it may even amount to a form of justice in some cases, and provide a psychological boost for people who are (or have been) at the short end of the stick in disputes with folks like JoshuaZ, Durova, Slimmy, and so on. (Sorry if I've left anyone out!)

I don't think people (including myself) fully understand - yet - the psychological impact of being humiliated in some way by a set of anonymous account names in a Wiki environment, especially when you yourself are using your real name (or even some derivative of it). It's one of the most interesting issues we deal with here, and you rarely see it discussed on Wikipedia at all, other than in passing references on policy talk pages on occasion. The best thing we can do is probably try to convince people that any feelings of humiliation they might experience are unnecessary and unworthy of them, but not all people can be convinced of that.

Anyhoo, if an effective opt-out policy is ever implemented and Daniel doesn't either drastically reduce the length of that list, or remove it altogether, then I suspect most of us will stop supporting him, as I would. But so far I'm still taking him at his word in that regard.
A Horse With No Name
QUOTE(Coren @ Sun 14th February 2010, 10:56am) *
What, exactly, is the groupthink that is common to all of them?


Easy: they are all hypocrites. dry.gif
BelovedFox
QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 14th February 2010, 7:33pm) *

QUOTE(Coren @ Sun 14th February 2010, 11:54am) *
The alternative is to give up on the project entirely; and I'm really unable to figure out how that could possibly help... (schnip) Daniel seems to be under the impression that this would, magically, reduce the impact Wikipedia has. It wouldn't. It'd just end up with even less control.

Well, don't get me wrong, fellas - I'm not really trying to defend Daniel's apparent policy of potentially including all WP contributors, regardless of their positions on BLP and related issues. There have been plenty of times when his insistence on this has been personally frustrating and upsetting for me, and at least twice I thought he was just being completely unreasonable. Nevertheless, I'm not going to say the idea of listing some WP'ers identities is fundamentally wrong, and it may even amount to a form of justice in some cases, and provide a psychological boost for people who are (or have been) at the short end of the stick in disputes with folks like JoshuaZ, Durova, Slimmy, and so on. (Sorry if I've left anyone out!)

I don't think people (including myself) fully understand - yet - the psychological impact of being humiliated in some way by a set of anonymous account names in a Wiki environment, especially when you yourself are using your real name (or even some derivative of it). It's one of the most interesting issues we deal with here, and you rarely see it discussed on Wikipedia at all, other than in passing references on policy talk pages on occasion. The best thing we can do is probably try to convince people that any feelings of humiliation they might experience are unnecessary and unworthy of them, but not all people can be convinced of that.

Anyhoo, if an effective opt-out policy is ever implemented and Daniel doesn't either drastically reduce the length of that list, or remove it altogether, then I suspect most of us will stop supporting him, as I would. But so far I'm still taking him at his word in that regard.


I would like this opportunity to thank Somey for a rational, concise and well-reasoned response. smile.gif I understand the form of limited payback a list like Hivemind potentially generates, but I guess I'm a bit leery at the whole idea of "internet justice" in the first place. It's one thing to administrate your own site where you can be god, it's another thing for people like the /b/tards to make people's lives living hell for some rather trivial (in the scheme of things) slights.
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