From risker.wp at gmail.com Mon Oct 25 01:53:50 2010
From: risker.wp at gmail.com (Risker)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 21:53:50 -0400
Subject: [arbcom-l] Return of Poetlister
Message-ID: <AANLkTin9vrYsWrXF985aWbHTRZ7RhxQEgC7gS94E34YZ@mail.gmail.com>

Brian Sadowski, checkuser at Simple WP, gave me the heads up that one of
Poetlister's sock accounts (Londoneye) had recently SUL'd on his project.
Given PL's propensity to sock, he provided me with the IP address:
87.194.69.177. I'd appreciate someone else taking a close look at the
range, 87.194.64.0/21, preferably someone with some experience in looking at
PL socks (which is why Alison and John are included on this).

It appears that PL signed in under the Londoneye account on 18 October to
send an email to an unknown party, and then went to look at something on
Simplewiki 9 minutes later, having forgotten to log out. SUL for
Londoneye<http://toolserver.org/%7Evvv/sulutil.php?rights=1&user=Londoneye>

I've gone through the current list of socks and updated all of the blocks to
prevent account creation, talk page editing and email usage. Many of the
accounts were blocked several years ago, when these options were not
available, so they were set at the default condition with all of these
accesses available. There is a long enough period between the email and the
"block tidying" that it is hoped PL won't figure out how he was uncovered.

I am deliberately not including the Functionaries as a group on this email;
however, if someone feels that an independent checkuser is needed to look at
this case, make sure that Arbcom knows who it is and what their
results/opinion is. Discretion is very important given the history behind
this situation.

Best,

Risker/Anne
----------
From cooties at mac.com Mon Oct 25 07:10:26 2010
From: cooties at mac.com (Alison Cassidy)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 00:10:26 -0700
Subject: [arbcom-l] Return of Poetlister
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin9vrYsWrXF985aWbHTRZ7RhxQEgC7gS94E34YZ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin9vrYsWrXF985aWbHTRZ7RhxQEgC7gS94E34YZ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E49DFA0D-96B1-4499-8B04-46635BB362BF@mac.com>

Thanks, Anne,

I took a vey quick look and there's quite a lot of activity on that range, including a number of edits that I suspect as being Poetlister. Do we have any useragent information from Brian over on sewiki? That would be a useful data point ...

Regards,

-- Allie
----------
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Wed Nov 24 01:34:02 2010
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 01:34:02 +0000
Subject: [arbcom-l] ACE
Message-ID: <AANLkTin3ebM0BJoS3w1RNUYfSSDtC=VLchisstUNMac7@mail.gmail.com>

Just a note regarding the Arbcom elections, where I have
stood<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2010/Candidates/FT2>
.

In my extended statement<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FT2/ACE2010_extended_statement>I
have described the events of 2008. To be honest these hurt during 2009
and
2010, I promised disclosure and could not. Now, free of drama, it can be.
I've consulted and am told the tone is appropriate. There will be discussion
and analysis (especially at WR), but the committee of 2008 are almost all
ex-arbs now of no real drama value, and the disclosure speaks in a factual
way about the state of things in the historic past.

The matters concerned took place on a private list long ago. While opinions
may legitimately differ in the community (they will!), I would appreciate if
any arb could double check I haven't included any factually incorrrect or
misleading statements or significant factual omissions. I don't think there
are any, the sole point I know I'm taking on faith is a file note that there
was a second oversighting of Damian's stuff on 3 May 2008, which I obviously
cannot check in the log.

A second point came to mind that it is possible someone might feel that I
should disclose that at least one 2010 arbitrator did not approve of my 2008
"drop the games and leave" threat to Poetlister. Because of the privacy
implications and "raking the past", and it not being any kind of formal view
at the time, I have not explained the matter nor the reasons behind it
on-wiki and I don't think it's needed, but I am including a mention of it
here so that there is no concern later of improper concealment or failure to
double check. The answer seems obvious but worth an explicit double check.

In terms of abuse, I handled it first time. Now it's years on and "old
stuff". The editors and WR users most likely to be concerned (Damian and
Ottava) are both banned on enwiki and their bias is now understood rather
than "taken as valid" as of 2010; even WR is tired of them. I plan to ignore
completely.

Last - a reflection on the past. I learned a lot from 2008. I've chilled a
bit too, avoided problems thoroughly for a long time now. Then, it seemed
the whole committee was terminal except for urgent crises and cases. The
2010 committee seems to have its collaborative hat much more together due to
actions in late 2008, 2009 and 2010. It looks vastly better from here. If
elected I plan for a much quieter life, because procedures for proposals,
case handling, on-wiki posts and decisions, urgent cases, cases by motion,
etc, whose absence led to chaos in 2008, are now in place and bedded in.
(And also because as above, Damian's antics aren't an issue now, and I don't
see anyone stepping up to replace him.)

I look forward to whatever the community may choose.

Paul.
----------
From risker.wp at gmail.com Wed Nov 24 01:34:53 2010
From: risker.wp at gmail.com (Risker)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 20:34:53 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] 2010 ArbCom elections
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=mMdbZWRzyM3QmEcrda3UMJ9-dKq+PcA_z4GVb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimd+3LywcP_QjCUyzMksge+WzKdCv0k74d1ERP3@mail.gmail.com>
<4CB42F74.4060808@gmail.com>
<347AC8BD-FDC5-4FF0-B4E9-71315C111784@iinet.net.au>
<AANLkTimEgWNKbe=g9swbG2soW0w2sZoonuwUyx443Grf@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTim4L5HZsdsSXoX9FE5B+9VDmqG4u_7WGHtwtH-d@mail.gmail.com>
<4CE52384.50102@uberbox.org>
<6FC4A520-D61D-49E8-B92C-E42B61420506@iinet.net.au>
<AANLkTim=fYZ=oEK-pfDDxnRzzwQtm1384tDRUSW72niG@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikj_p0jGWt+tkvqc4JrN40BgF0BVmH2Rx4cAFPz@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTim1yU++Bkp23decM4ShseRTT_t0qEHVon9Ua47t@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTiku+fJq3iZWjL5V=bpaiBprUmmX4FNY1dghR3+1@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTimN00yM497cJinZZ95W1bErUavGc7WRy8=+uC7U@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTimJ6eMRxMdMh=Rqxc8dCg9M2LSz=HQ0sSDf-Hag@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikiKDpCXx-3nKKT2ow-Z5bXChJ_hu=d61_7KBrW@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTimx1EN0y_ew8uf6tjfdtk0Y1Asz3J7YKp1OBHpQ@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTi=mMdbZWRzyM3QmEcrda3UMJ9-dKq+PcA_z4GVb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikH3m_ooLjFRpRqpaJS8eYL2+ppj-3a2C-hchpD@mail.gmail.com>

If Iridescent asks for an investigation, as well he might, then I think we
will be obliged to do so. The only thing I am inclined to do at this point
is to perhaps make a discreet inquiry of a toolserver admin whether or not
there are any tables there which might possibly reveal this information, and
to check to make sure that they are all protected from viewing if so.

Just for the record, I did do some probing as to why Iri was checkusered on
those two occasions. Dominic checkusered Iri during one of the Poetlister
block/unblock discussions when Iridescent ventured the opinion that there
was no way Poetlister and Taxwoman were the same person; at that time,
Iridescent was known to be an editor of indeterminate gender working from
London, which bore more than a passing resemblance to PL. It's a
borderline check, but given the degree of (valid) concern about PL's socks,
not an unreasonable one.

The second time, Thatcher was looking at some disruptive IPs and sock
accounts and it looks as though Iridescent had edited from one of the same
IPs at some point. His username shows up in the middle of a long chain of
CUs with the same edit summary, at least.

Risker/Anne

On 23 November 2010 20:20, KnightLago <KnightLago at gmail.com> wrote:

> Since there is nothing we can do that will reveal who gave him the info,
> perhaps ignoring him is the best course of action.
>
> KL
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Carcharoth <carcharothwp at googlemail.com>wrote:
>
>> Is it me, or is that the purest possible form of trolling by MZM. The
>> only reason to post something like that is to get a response out of
>> someone, anyone, even us come to that. It is saying "come on then, I
>> know things I shouldn't, what are you going to do to me?" *sigh*
>> (Incidentally, anything we do may end up confirming what was posted.)
>>
>> Carcharoth
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Risker <risker.wp at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > And the silly season continues:
>> >
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=398487107
>> >
>> > The information is correct, incidentially: Iridescent shows up twice in
>> the
>> > CU logs, both in 2008, once by Dominic and once by Thatcher. MZMcBride
>> > doesn't show up.
>> >
>> > Risker/Anne
----------
From carcharothwp at googlemail.com Wed Nov 24 01:45:17 2010
From: carcharothwp at googlemail.com (Carcharoth)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 01:45:17 +0000
Subject: [arbcom-l] ACE
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin3ebM0BJoS3w1RNUYfSSDtC=VLchisstUNMac7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin3ebM0BJoS3w1RNUYfSSDtC=VLchisstUNMac7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikz3xr_WF6CDX2qPF7JUtDvhCqMoFZjODy=ywS+@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the note Paul. I'm replying to acknowledge receipt of your
e-mail. Speaking personally, I haven't had time to read your statement
yet, and I don't have time to do the double-checks you are asking for,
but maybe someone else will. As you say, it's in the hands of the
community now.

Carcharoth
----------
From risker.wp at gmail.com Wed Nov 24 02:05:03 2010
From: risker.wp at gmail.com (Risker)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:05:03 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Suggested committee positions for the election -
Candidates should skip this thread :-)
Message-ID: <AANLkTikNyX0J3sJ98OmcKN-j-LBvVeMBSxA-Z0pvXYFJ@mail.gmail.com>

As I'm sure everyone will agree, the Committee itself should remain above
the fray in the coming election. Both sitting and former arbitrators are
running in this election, as part of the 23-candidate field, so this
aloofness is probably pretty important.

There are a couple of things that may come up that may need to be
addressed. First, it might be worthwhile for the Committee to post a small
notice saying that we wish all of the candidates well, and have faith that
the community will choose wisely, and that any candidates should restrict
their communications to Arbcom-L to matters that do not directly or
indirectly involve the election.

Second, I'd appreciate someone else reviewing and posting on FT2 having
alternate accounts that have been disclosed to the committee; it's someone
else's turn. :-)

Finally, one of the candidate guides suggests that FT2 could regain CU/OS
permissions for the asking. I'm fairly certain the position we took with FT2
on that was that we wanted a "satisfactory" explanation of the threatening
letter to Poetlister, which he promised to submit but never did; and that
generally were not happy with granting CU/OS permissions after having read
the threatening letter to Poetlister. I think it is to our advantage to
confirm amongst ourselves whether or not my impression is correct. I have a
feeling someone may ask him about it, and we may need to "correct the
record" if he answers in a different way than we expect. Better to
anticipate than to be caught unawares.

Risker/Anne
----------
From carcharothwp at googlemail.com Wed Nov 24 02:46:32 2010
From: carcharothwp at googlemail.com (Carcharoth)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 02:46:32 +0000
Subject: [arbcom-l] Suggested committee positions for the election -
Candidates should skip this thread :-)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikNyX0J3sJ98OmcKN-j-LBvVeMBSxA-Z0pvXYFJ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikNyX0J3sJ98OmcKN-j-LBvVeMBSxA-Z0pvXYFJ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimS9xvnpHsJgphJJLdSC3w_ps4xf3oNEgfG47+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:05 AM, Risker <risker.wp at gmail.com> wrote:
> As I'm sure everyone will agree, the Committee itself should remain above
> the fray in the coming election.? Both sitting and former arbitrators are
> running in this election, as part of the 23-candidate field, so this
> aloofness is probably pretty important.

Well, there goes my idea to write an election guide (I had mostly
rejected the idea by this point anyway). I had been intending to ask
some questions of the candidates, but am not so sure now. Maybe I will
need to wait until next year before engaging fully in an election
season again, and this year I should disappear into article space
until the election is over (though keeping an eye on what is said
needs to be done as well).

The FT2 stuff is a headache.

Carcharoth
----------
From risker.wp at gmail.com Wed Nov 24 03:03:41 2010
From: risker.wp at gmail.com (Risker)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:03:41 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Suggested committee positions for the election -
Candidates should skip this thread :-)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimS9xvnpHsJgphJJLdSC3w_ps4xf3oNEgfG47+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikNyX0J3sJ98OmcKN-j-LBvVeMBSxA-Z0pvXYFJ@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTimS9xvnpHsJgphJJLdSC3w_ps4xf3oNEgfG47+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikzizWiLWvPwJKz3qCCFUDJDGW0m3kSxVJwK7=4@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 November 2010 21:46, Carcharoth <carcharothwp at googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:05 AM, Risker <risker.wp at gmail.com> wrote:
> > As I'm sure everyone will agree, the Committee itself should remain above
> > the fray in the coming election. Both sitting and former arbitrators are
> > running in this election, as part of the 23-candidate field, so this
> > aloofness is probably pretty important.
>
> Well, there goes my idea to write an election guide (I had mostly
> rejected the idea by this point anyway). I had been intending to ask
> some questions of the candidates, but am not so sure now. Maybe I will
> need to wait until next year before engaging fully in an election
> season again, and this year I should disappear into article space
> until the election is over (though keeping an eye on what is said
> needs to be done as well).
>
> The FT2 stuff is a headache.
>
> Carcharoth
>


Hmmm, good point, Carch... It's probably a bit weird for you, KnightLago
and Fayssal . I actually don't have an objection to any of the three of you
writing guides or asking questions, and I know we can safely assume any
questions would be based on publicly known information. I can't speak for
anyone else on this point, though.

For those of us scheduled to stick around, well...I'm not making any public
endorsements for anyone, though I have advocated for more candidates to step
up to the plate on various pages and seemed to be successful in drawing a
few out. (Unfortunately, it seems in one case that has been taken as an
endorsement, I'll have to clear that up.) We have to be in a position to
respond to relevant questions, like the alternate account ones.

Risker
----------
From risker.wp at gmail.com Wed Nov 24 03:16:52 2010
From: risker.wp at gmail.com (Risker)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:16:52 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] FT2 alternate account (from Suggested committee
positions for the election - Candidates should skip this thread :-)
Message-ID: <AANLkTikiyw=+8+rBYHYpAY3tJdxn7wN21HCsv-pwFuN0@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 November 2010 21:05, Risker <risker.wp at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Second, I'd appreciate someone else reviewing and posting on FT2 having
> alternate accounts that have been disclosed to the committee; it's someone
> else's turn. :-)
> <snip>
>


Well now...here's an issue. The two accounts that FT2 disclosed to Arbcom
are The Random Named and Frank174.

On his alternate disclosure at his "extended statement" <
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FT2/ACE2...d_statement> he says he
has edited under:


1. Saduski J<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Saduski_J&action=edit&redlink=1>(
talk <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Saduski_J> ?
contribs<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Saduski_J>?
deleted
contribs<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Saduski_J>?
logs<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&user=Saduski+J>?
edit
filter log<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Saduski+J>?
block
user <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Block/Saduski_J> ? block
log<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Saduski+J>
) (November - December 2009):

Used to experience being a newcomer of good intention but no experience,
the initial learning curve we expect newcomers to absorb, and the extent to
which help provided by the community is sufficient. Part for personal
learning, part for the WMF strategy
project<http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/>
.

Created brief articles on Venezuelan (ex)ministers Jesse
Chac?n<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Chac%C3%B3n>and Victoria
Mata <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Mata>, but 'retired' on
discovering how much there is to learn and how confusing Wikipedia is,
despite being a quite well meaning and intelligent "newcomer". Convinced me
that it is essential to prioritize better handholding and simplification for
newcomers on arriving, for the long term survival of the project itself.
2. Ft2 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ft2>
(talk<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ft2>?
contribs <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ft2> ? deleted
contribs <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Ft2>?
logs <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&user=Ft2> ? edit
filter log<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Ft2>?
block
user <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Block/Ft2> ? block
log<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Ft2>
) (December 2008):
Doppelganger<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:DOPPELGANGER>account.
Only edits are redirecting its user and talk pages to mine.
3. Account disclosed to Arbcom: Used to help co-ordinate real-world
editor events. Nothing contentious whatsoever, and no other use or project
activity. Unused for more than 1.5 years and I give a commitment it will not
be used in future.


Now, I think it's clear that User:The Random Named is account #3, based on
edits and the fact it was disclosed on 27 Dec 2007 (just before he took
office).

Frank174 has no edits, but does exist, and was created by him in the right
time frame for the New User testing.

Anyone want to take this particular bull by the horns?

Risker/Anne
----------
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Wed Nov 24 05:21:56 2010
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 05:21:56 +0000
Subject: [arbcom-l] ACE
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikz3xr_WF6CDX2qPF7JUtDvhCqMoFZjODy=ywS+@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin3ebM0BJoS3w1RNUYfSSDtC=VLchisstUNMac7@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikz3xr_WF6CDX2qPF7JUtDvhCqMoFZjODy=ywS+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinRQjE1U=QNrH6m-Bj_D=jB9uZYgGcbtuJaAaOZ@mail.gmail.com>

One omission. I owe you an alt account disclosure. It's [[User:The Random
Named]]. It's described in my statement as:

"Account disclosed to Arbcom:
"Used to help co-ordinate real-world editor events. Nothing contentious
whatsoever, and no other use or project activity. Unused for more than 1.5
years and I give a commitment it will not be used in future."

It's not public as its edits identify a locale.


Paul.
----------
From carcharothwp at googlemail.com Wed Nov 24 10:52:24 2010
From: carcharothwp at googlemail.com (Carcharoth)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:52:24 +0000
Subject: [arbcom-l] FT2 alternate account (from Suggested committee
positions for the election - Candidates should skip this thread :-)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikiyw=+8+rBYHYpAY3tJdxn7wN21HCsv-pwFuN0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikiyw=+8+rBYHYpAY3tJdxn7wN21HCsv-pwFuN0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik+vR-uwwZkH0freWOTYrvrZo_9fLwii1rj87ks@mail.gmail.com>

He has now double-disclosed the account "The Random Named" (see his
reacent e-mail). His creation of Frank174 is a matter of public
record:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...de_review_log=1

Though presumably there is no way to distinguish accounts created for
others or for himself.

I will write back to him to say that he doesn't need to worry about
The Random Named as it was disclosed in December 2007, but I will
point him to the user account creation log to remind him of those ones
(he has likely forgotten the early ones by now, but the Frank174 one
is only last year). Is that the best way to handle this?

Carcharoth
----------
From KnightLago at gmail.com Wed Nov 24 12:07:16 2010
From: KnightLago at gmail.com (KnightLago)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:07:16 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] 2010 ArbCom elections
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikH3m_ooLjFRpRqpaJS8eYL2+ppj-3a2C-hchpD@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimd+3LywcP_QjCUyzMksge+WzKdCv0k74d1ERP3@mail.gmail.com>
<4CB42F74.4060808@gmail.com>
<347AC8BD-FDC5-4FF0-B4E9-71315C111784@iinet.net.au>
<AANLkTimEgWNKbe=g9swbG2soW0w2sZoonuwUyx443Grf@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTim4L5HZsdsSXoX9FE5B+9VDmqG4u_7WGHtwtH-d@mail.gmail.com>
<4CE52384.50102@uberbox.org>
<6FC4A520-D61D-49E8-B92C-E42B61420506@iinet.net.au>
<AANLkTim=fYZ=oEK-pfDDxnRzzwQtm1384tDRUSW72niG@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikj_p0jGWt+tkvqc4JrN40BgF0BVmH2Rx4cAFPz@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTim1yU++Bkp23decM4ShseRTT_t0qEHVon9Ua47t@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTiku+fJq3iZWjL5V=bpaiBprUmmX4FNY1dghR3+1@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTimN00yM497cJinZZ95W1bErUavGc7WRy8=+uC7U@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTimJ6eMRxMdMh=Rqxc8dCg9M2LSz=HQ0sSDf-Hag@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikiKDpCXx-3nKKT2ow-Z5bXChJ_hu=d61_7KBrW@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTimx1EN0y_ew8uf6tjfdtk0Y1Asz3J7YKp1OBHpQ@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTi=mMdbZWRzyM3QmEcrda3UMJ9-dKq+PcA_z4GVb@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikH3m_ooLjFRpRqpaJS8eYL2+ppj-3a2C-hchpD@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikAcTqC8afcgOvatE42YpnZnk1aOPYwAaqTD+kX@mail.gmail.com>

I thinking checking with the toolserver admins, and pointing out a further
disclosure of confidential information, and seeing if they want to
re-evaluate his having an account there is a good idea. But unless we are
willing to force MZM to reveal who he got the info from under pain of being
blocked or banned, then there is really nothing to investigate. There are
too many people with access to the information, directly and indirectly, and
log searches are not logged. There is literally nothing to investigate
unless we take a firm stand with MZM, which I would support. Thoughts?

KL


On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Risker <risker.wp at gmail.com> wrote:

> If Iridescent asks for an investigation, as well he might, then I think we
> will be obliged to do so. The only thing I am inclined to do at this point
> is to perhaps make a discreet inquiry of a toolserver admin whether or not
> there are any tables there which might possibly reveal this information, and
> to check to make sure that they are all protected from viewing if so.
>
> Just for the record, I did do some probing as to why Iri was checkusered on
> those two occasions. Dominic checkusered Iri during one of the Poetlister
> block/unblock discussions when Iridescent ventured the opinion that there
> was no way Poetlister and Taxwoman were the same person; at that time,
> Iridescent was known to be an editor of indeterminate gender working from
> London, which bore more than a passing resemblance to PL. It's a
> borderline check, but given the degree of (valid) concern about PL's socks,
> not an unreasonable one.
>
> The second time, Thatcher was looking at some disruptive IPs and sock
> accounts and it looks as though Iridescent had edited from one of the same
> IPs at some point. His username shows up in the middle of a long chain of
> CUs with the same edit summary, at least.
>
> Risker/Anne
-----------
From: carcharothwp at googlemail.com (Carcharoth)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 12:18:03 +0000
Subject: [arbcom-l] 2010 ArbCom elections
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikAcTqC8afcgOvatE42YpnZnk1aOPYwAaqTD+kX@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimd+3LywcP_QjCUyzMksge+WzKdCv0k74d1ERP3@mail.gmail.com>
<4CB42F74.4060808@gmail.com>
<347AC8BD-FDC5-4FF0-B4E9-71315C111784@iinet.net.au>
<AANLkTimEgWNKbe=g9swbG2soW0w2sZoonuwUyx443Grf@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTim4L5HZsdsSXoX9FE5B+9VDmqG4u_7WGHtwtH-d@mail.gmail.com>
<4CE52384.50102@uberbox.org>
<6FC4A520-D61D-49E8-B92C-E42B61420506@iinet.net.au>
<AANLkTim=fYZ=oEK-pfDDxnRzzwQtm1384tDRUSW72niG@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikj_p0jGWt+tkvqc4JrN40BgF0BVmH2Rx4cAFPz@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTim1yU++Bkp23decM4ShseRTT_t0qEHVon9Ua47t@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTiku+fJq3iZWjL5V=bpaiBprUmmX4FNY1dghR3+1@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTimN00yM497cJinZZ95W1bErUavGc7WRy8=+uC7U@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTimJ6eMRxMdMh=Rqxc8dCg9M2LSz=HQ0sSDf-Hag@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikiKDpCXx-3nKKT2ow-Z5bXChJ_hu=d61_7KBrW@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTimx1EN0y_ew8uf6tjfdtk0Y1Asz3J7YKp1OBHpQ@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTi=mMdbZWRzyM3QmEcrda3UMJ9-dKq+PcA_z4GVb@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikH3m_ooLjFRpRqpaJS8eYL2+ppj-3a2C-hchpD@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikAcTqC8afcgOvatE42YpnZnk1aOPYwAaqTD+kX@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimaZAVGO0PQfxeBov8PW_gLL=+9DAZ9ai+TAvVn@mail.gmail.com>

It would be reasonable to ask him if his information source is
accessible to others, not just him. We can't force him to reveal his
sources, but we can ask him whether this is a one-off leak or an
ongoing security hole. Same question to the toolserver admins.

Carcharoth
----------
From risker.wp at gmail.com Wed Nov 24 12:21:44 2010
From: risker.wp at gmail.com (Risker)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:21:44 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] FT2 alternate account (from Suggested committee
positions for the election - Candidates should skip this thread :-)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik+vR-uwwZkH0freWOTYrvrZo_9fLwii1rj87ks@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikiyw=+8+rBYHYpAY3tJdxn7wN21HCsv-pwFuN0@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTik+vR-uwwZkH0freWOTYrvrZo_9fLwii1rj87ks@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikAoG7hSDym7na7o9Ffh06YJn6KkjBEq+xsscUT@mail.gmail.com>

He needs to disclose Frank174, or to say that he has disclosed two
alternative accounts to arbcom, but he can't lump this one into the "because
it discloses private information" because this one does not.

Risker/Anne
----------
From carcharothwp at googlemail.com Wed Nov 24 12:21:49 2010
From: carcharothwp at googlemail.com (Carcharoth)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 12:21:49 +0000
Subject: [arbcom-l] 2010 ArbCom elections
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimaZAVGO0PQfxeBov8PW_gLL=+9DAZ9ai+TAvVn@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimd+3LywcP_QjCUyzMksge+WzKdCv0k74d1ERP3@mail.gmail.com>
<4CB42F74.4060808@gmail.com>
<347AC8BD-FDC5-4FF0-B4E9-71315C111784@iinet.net.au>
<AANLkTimEgWNKbe=g9swbG2soW0w2sZoonuwUyx443Grf@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTim4L5HZsdsSXoX9FE5B+9VDmqG4u_7WGHtwtH-d@mail.gmail.com>
<4CE52384.50102@uberbox.org>
<6FC4A520-D61D-49E8-B92C-E42B61420506@iinet.net.au>
<AANLkTim=fYZ=oEK-pfDDxnRzzwQtm1384tDRUSW72niG@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikj_p0jGWt+tkvqc4JrN40BgF0BVmH2Rx4cAFPz@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTim1yU++Bkp23decM4ShseRTT_t0qEHVon9Ua47t@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTiku+fJq3iZWjL5V=bpaiBprUmmX4FNY1dghR3+1@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTimN00yM497cJinZZ95W1bErUavGc7WRy8=+uC7U@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTimJ6eMRxMdMh=Rqxc8dCg9M2LSz=HQ0sSDf-Hag@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikiKDpCXx-3nKKT2ow-Z5bXChJ_hu=d61_7KBrW@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTimx1EN0y_ew8uf6tjfdtk0Y1Asz3J7YKp1OBHpQ@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTi=mMdbZWRzyM3QmEcrda3UMJ9-dKq+PcA_z4GVb@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikH3m_ooLjFRpRqpaJS8eYL2+ppj-3a2C-hchpD@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikAcTqC8afcgOvatE42YpnZnk1aOPYwAaqTD+kX@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTimaZAVGO0PQfxeBov8PW_gLL=+9DAZ9ai+TAvVn@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin4PTeMM9XiVPnyn=ALWuCy4z-psAyB=e4_jdqv@mail.gmail.com>

PS. Dominic and Thatcher (if still active) should be told as well.
Also, MZM might say (with some justification) that the parts of the
logs revealed do not actually breach privacy, and therefore this is
information that should be disclosed upon request. I believe some
checkusers have said in the past that they would tell anyone on
request if they had been checked.

Carcharoth
----------
From roger.davies.wiki at gmail.com Wed Nov 24 12:48:29 2010
From: roger.davies.wiki at gmail.com (Roger Davies)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 12:48:29 +0000
Subject: [arbcom-l] FT2 alternate account (from Suggested committee
positions for the election - Candidates should skip this thread :-)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikAoG7hSDym7na7o9Ffh06YJn6KkjBEq+xsscUT@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikiyw=+8+rBYHYpAY3tJdxn7wN21HCsv-pwFuN0@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTik+vR-uwwZkH0freWOTYrvrZo_9fLwii1rj87ks@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikAoG7hSDym7na7o9Ffh06YJn6KkjBEq+xsscUT@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CED099D.3080601@gmail.com>

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From carcharothwp at googlemail.com Wed Nov 24 12:50:43 2010
From: carcharothwp at googlemail.com (Carcharoth)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 12:50:43 +0000
Subject: [arbcom-l] FT2 alternate account (from Suggested committee
positions for the election - Candidates should skip this thread :-)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikAoG7hSDym7na7o9Ffh06YJn6KkjBEq+xsscUT@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikiyw=+8+rBYHYpAY3tJdxn7wN21HCsv-pwFuN0@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTik+vR-uwwZkH0freWOTYrvrZo_9fLwii1rj87ks@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikAoG7hSDym7na7o9Ffh06YJn6KkjBEq+xsscUT@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik2J4RCAp1RiR+=X9YBepAOead92H2SWiPu+9cO@mail.gmail.com>

I'm happy to assume he has forgotten to disclose Frank174 and remind
him, but that shouldn't really be our role, which is why I was
proposing to point him to the accounts he has created. Alternatively,
just a simple list of accounts disclosed could be sent to him, but I'm
not going to do that until I can see the e-mail or diff by which he
disclosed these accounts. You said "December 2007". Can you link to
the e-mail in the mailing list archives? Obviously saying "FT2
disclosed 2 accounts to ArbCom" in response to a need to confirm the
one disclosed account would be crass. What would probably be best is
during every elections for the list of disclosed accounts to be gone
through and the candidates told what they have disclosed to us. Though
it is distressing in some ways how many throwaway accounts some people
have (see Roger's e-mail about Giano).

Carcharoth
----------
From carcharothwp at googlemail.com Wed Nov 24 12:58:00 2010
From: carcharothwp at googlemail.com (Carcharoth)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 12:58:00 +0000
Subject: [arbcom-l] FT2 alternate account (from Suggested committee
positions for the election - Candidates should skip this thread :-)
In-Reply-To: <4CED099D.3080601@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikiyw=+8+rBYHYpAY3tJdxn7wN21HCsv-pwFuN0@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTik+vR-uwwZkH0freWOTYrvrZo_9fLwii1rj87ks@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikAoG7hSDym7na7o9Ffh06YJn6KkjBEq+xsscUT@mail.gmail.com>
<4CED099D.3080601@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinZcWCTiZtRx3gxdGY4_vqq=VXhaC=GPd=KRy2S@mail.gmail.com>

The Ragussa account is very early:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cat...hive_1#Chequers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giacomo_Leoni

Never heard of that account before, but from the early history of the
article above, that's blindingly obvious.

Carcharoth

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Roger Davies
<roger.davies.wiki at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Incidentally, there are also at least two undisclosed Giano accounts:
> User:Conte Giacomo (1700 edits) and User:Ragussa (300 edits).
>
> Roger
----------
From risker.wp at gmail.com Wed Nov 24 14:28:10 2010
From: risker.wp at gmail.com (Risker)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:28:10 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] FT2 alternate account (from Suggested committee
positions for the election - Candidates should skip this thread :-)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinZcWCTiZtRx3gxdGY4_vqq=VXhaC=GPd=KRy2S@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikiyw=+8+rBYHYpAY3tJdxn7wN21HCsv-pwFuN0@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTik+vR-uwwZkH0freWOTYrvrZo_9fLwii1rj87ks@mail.gmail.com>
<AANLkTikAoG7hSDym7na7o9Ffh06YJn6KkjBEq+xsscUT@mail.gmail.com>
<4CED099D.3080601@gmail.com>
<AANLkTinZcWCTiZtRx3gxdGY4_vqq=VXhaC=GPd=KRy2S@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinbjS+bK9U4AodkknFMdEQkGZvL8aXFYKXxpBx6@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I remember this discussion about the Ragussa account from a long time
ago, I think even before I was on Arbcom. That account was abandoned
because it gives away quite a bit of personal information about Giano if
one follows its contribs very closely. It probably should have been on the
arbwiki ages ago, but it doesn't seem to be, and it should be classified an
abandoned account. He'd disclosed the Conte Giacomo account the last time
he ran, not sure why he didn't this time.

Carcharoth, the entire purpose of the list of wikipedia (alternate)
accounts on the arbwiki is so that we don't have to constantly try to root
through our mailing list archives to find these things, and if we nuke the
archives, as some have suggested, then establishing the standard as "I have
to see the email" is going to be problematic.

Risker/Anne

Why do people drink white rum when dark rum is so much better?

Hmmm. If you look at that account's contributions, it's mainly concerned with Wikipedia:Meetup/Birmingham 2. (Was that Birmingham, England or Birmingham, Alabama?) What does that tell us about FT2's location? Did he attend the meetup incognito?

You should know about things like that. Not sure about what it tells "us" given that most of the above is about you.

Why are people so insanely fond of gawking at Baxter's swanning-around?

He's crazy, kick him and move on.

Gotta hand it to the man, when he does something he goes all the way. I can't even keep track of all the elaborate deceptions he's cooked up (or better yet, why he even bothered). His obsessive sockpuppeting is almost unbelievable.

Why do people drink Lowlands when there's Islay? Different people have different tastes. And these people are wrong.

Depends. White rum makes for a better Mai Tai.

You probably also think martinis are better with vodka than with gin. Philistine.

Speaking of which, why the hell would James Bond, a quintessential snobby Brit in his tastes, drink VODKA martinis? The Empire always drank gin.

Commander James Bond works for the Admiralty, who run the intelligence services, whereas it is the Army that drinks gin. In remembering British class mores, one must recall the hostility between Navy and Army. Toodle pip!

Well then WTF doesn't Commander Bond drink Mai Tais with a little umbrella? Between sodomy and the lash, I mean. Or mojitos or daquiris or (if you must) some non-wog grog.

Vodka? The guy fights SMERSH all the time. It's not right.

I understand that they distilled vodka in the Romanov era, and possibly before - did 007 not have a penchant for cavier also?