Sun 25th November 2007, 9:44pm
If they don't ban Moreschi too because of this, I'll be very surprised :
Yes, I know what people do in their living rooms is there own business. That does not mean what they do there is healthy, nor does it mean we cannot pass moral judgment upon what they do....Also, it's possible that two of the arbitrators working on this case had the opportunity to see Durova's evidence some time before it was acted upon, as members of this mailing list. Did they, in fact, read it? If so, I believe they should recuse. Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 21:25, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
He must've grown his balls back or something...
He continues on the talkpage...
(quoting this before it gets nuked...)
Secret mail listJzG comes out of the closet as a mailing list recipient...
Is this hosted on Wikipedia servers? • Lawrence Cohen 20:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
If you are referring to the Arbitration Committee's private mailing list, then yes. See mail:Arbcom-l. Cbrown1023 talk 21:07, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
I believe he's referring to Durova's secret mailing list, which explicitly excludes some, but not all, of the Arbiters. --Alecmconroy (talk) 21:09, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I'm referring to this secret mail list everyone keeps talking about. I was wondering if its hosted by Wikipedia, like the arbcom list is. • Lawrence Cohen 21:10, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I see what you mean now. Cbrown1023 talk 21:17, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Hosted by Wikia. Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 21:18, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Er... checkuser and private info is released on a third party website like that? • Lawrence Cohen 21:20, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Shrug. Not released, it's a private mailing list. Hosted by this third party, yes. Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 21:21, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
How do you know this? Isarig (talk) 21:23, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Them that asks no questions isn't told a lie. Watch the wall, my darling, while the gentlemen go by! Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 21:26, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
I would appreciate a straight answer. Isarig (talk) 21:28, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
I would dearly love to give you a straight answer. Not going to happen right now, though. Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 21:30, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
If this list exists, and checkuser and private information is released on it, are all the people on this list vetted by the Wikimedia Board to have access to that information? • Lawrence Cohen 21:24, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Possibly. The presence of a steward/Foundation person on that list would suggest so. Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 21:26, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Would you mind posting this extra info on the evidence page? • Lawrence Cohen 21:27, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
The Arbitrator will read both the Evidence and its talk page, in their entirety. Cbrown1023 talk 21:37, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
The mailing list to which Durova sent the email is not secret, merely private. It is hosted by Wikia. Its purpose is not "to combat sockpuppets of banned users", its purpose is to discuss how to more effectively combat harassment on Wikipedia. It is clear to those of us in this group that the current methods used to combat harassment are ineffective, due to a number of factors including, for example, the present practice of reflex reversion of any removal of a link to external harassment anywhere in Wikipedia.
The group includes a number of long-standing editors, mostly female , who have experienced harassment as a result of their on-wiki actions. It also includes some past and present members of the arbitration committee, some active administrators, CheckUsers and one or two others. I think most of us have OTRS access. It is private for the sole reason that much of what is discussed is essentially private - for example, some pseudonymous editors contribute under their real names, and have shared private information to help establish context. It's not some kind of super-secret cabal. The cabal is found, as it always was, on #wikipedia-en-cabal, but if I reveal this I will have to kill you.
I'm not quite sure how I ended up on that list, and I'll acknowledge that there is a bit of noise and a fair bit of hurt being shared there, but it is definitely not a covert replacement of "votes for banning".
It does, of course, involve a certain amount of discussion of the MO of some banned users who are serial ban evaders and have engaged in, supported or enabled harassment.
The arbitrators already know about the list and its makeup. It has been discussed, I believe, on the arbcom-l list well before this incident. Guy (Help!) 21:49, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Harassment, mostly female, checkuser and connected with the inner cabal....Are you thinking what I'm thinking?