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Wikipedia Review > Wikimedia Discussion > Editors > Notable editors > Durova
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The Joy
I sometimes wonder when a Cabalist like Durova falls, that those other Cabalists who come to the fallen's talk page are not sympathizing with her... they are mocking her.

Durova: "Ah, Lord Cabal, I've blocked !! and outed the mailing lis... aaaacck! Aaak!"
Cabal: "You have failed us for the last time, Durova. Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal?"
Cabal: "Prepare the others for a major banning attack. You are in command now, Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal!"
(Durova clutches her throat and falls as Jehochman nods his head for guards to dispose of her)
Amarkov
QUOTE(The Joy @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:13pm) *

I sometimes wonder when a Cabalist like Durova falls, that those other Cabalists who come to the fallen's talk page are not sympathizing with her... they are mocking her.

Durova: "Ah, Lord Cabal, I've blocked !! and outed the mailing lis... aaaacck! Aaak!"
Cabal: "You have failed us for the last time, Durova. Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal?"
Cabal: "Prepare the others for a major banning attack. You are in command now, Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal!"
(Durova clutches her throat and falls as Jehochman nods his head for guards to dispose of her)

Clearly, there's something going on...
Disillusioned Lackey
no, no, no, no. smile.gif

You've got her all wrong.

She's Karl (Du)ROVE(a)

Orchestrating minions and ministrations to forward agendas successfully....

...but ultimately managing to fuck things up so badly that a nation was driven to war on false pretenses, while outing its own very cleverly disguised spy gathering REAL data on WMD. Durova likewise killed many faithful contributors, with false accusations of evil-doer-dom.


She's Karl Rove™
I have said this before, and I want royalties and residuals. smile.gif
The Joy
QUOTE(Amarkov @ Tue 27th November 2007, 2:32am) *

QUOTE(The Joy @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:13pm) *

I sometimes wonder when a Cabalist like Durova falls, that those other Cabalists who come to the fallen's talk page are not sympathizing with her... they are mocking her.

Durova: "Ah, Lord Cabal, I've blocked !! and outed the mailing lis... aaaacck! Aaak!"
Cabal: "You have failed us for the last time, Durova. Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal?"
Cabal: "Prepare the others for a major banning attack. You are in command now, Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal!"
(Durova clutches her throat and falls as Jehochman nods his head for guards to dispose of her)

Clearly, there's something going on...


Wow. ohmy.gif
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(The Joy @ Tue 27th November 2007, 2:06am) *

QUOTE(Amarkov @ Tue 27th November 2007, 2:32am) *

QUOTE(The Joy @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:13pm) *

I sometimes wonder when a Cabalist like Durova falls, that those other Cabalists who come to the fallen's talk page are not sympathizing with her... they are mocking her.

Durova: "Ah, Lord Cabal, I've blocked !! and outed the mailing lis... aaaacck! Aaak!"
Cabal: "You have failed us for the last time, Durova. Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal?"
Cabal: "Prepare the others for a major banning attack. You are in command now, Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal!"
(Durova clutches her throat and falls as Jehochman nods his head for guards to dispose of her)

Clearly, there's something going on...


Wow. ohmy.gif


2nd the Wow.

Surely he said something to the effect of needing to get the hell away from this scandal. His real name and company got mired in this muck. He's a weasel himself, and just as sneaky and backhanded as she is. But it is perfectly expected that he'd betray her. That's what such people do. I'm surprised she deleted his edit, as to do so was so utterly revealing of the fact that he'd hurt her.

Well, well. She rode on his SEO coattails, and he on her admin coattails. No more.

The Dynamic Duo of joint Complex Investigations is no more.


He should have known better. But he is no better than she.

In Memorium


FORUM Image
Disillusioned Lackey
The only problem here is that people will think "she resigned" means "she's no longer on Wikipedia".

In reality, she'll be resysopped when no one is looking, just like TonySidaway.

He had the same "punishment" by Arbcom. (He quit under "suspicious circumstaces").

Which a few months later, meant nothing.

Its rigged.
The Joy
QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Tue 4th December 2007, 12:23pm) *

The only problem here is that people will think "she resigned" means "she's no longer on Wikipedia".

In reality, she'll be resysopped when no one is looking, just like TonySidaway.

He had the same "punishment" by Arbcom. (He quit under "suspicious circumstaces").

Which a few months later, meant nothing.

Its rigged.


Tony got his bit back!?! ohmy.gif Oh, the incivility!
Fox
I thought Tony Sidaway was required by Arbcom to pass RFA to get his bit back.
BobbyBombastic
Tony Sidaway is not an admin.
thekohser
Did anyone actually buy anything from the "Durova for ArbCom" store?

I just got my big-sized lapel button in the mail today. It looks fantastic. Maybe an eBay item for when Wikipedia shuts down in a couple of years. I checked my "Orders" report, and it looked like I was the only one to purchase anything.

You're lousy capitalists, Wikipedia Review.

Greg
Disillusioned Lackey
You should never have admitted that.

wink.gif
Joseph100
QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Tue 4th December 2007, 9:06pm) *

You should never have admitted that.

wink.gif

My Tribute to Durova....



The world is a better place with out the Durova's of the world making it suck more.
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(Joseph100 @ Wed 5th December 2007, 5:48am) *

The world is a better place with out the Durova's of the world making it suck more.




I'm much more for the classics smile.gif
Joseph100
QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Wed 5th December 2007, 7:24am) *

QUOTE(Joseph100 @ Wed 5th December 2007, 5:48am) *

The world is a better place with out the Durova's of the world making it suck more.





I'm much more for the classics smile.gif


Agreed, but in keeping with the Web 2.0 theme, I figured it was more relevant.
Disillusioned Lackey
Web 2.0 is no excuse for dissing the classics!

FORUM Image
thekohser
You know what? I see that Jimbo has been repeatedly stating that it doesn't matter that Wikia.com hosted these "private, invitation-only" mailing lists comprised of influential Wikipedians.

Is it possible that he learned ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from the Essjay scandal? I quote a key passage here:

QUOTE
When Essjay was hired by Wikia in January 2007, he made changes to his Wikia profile and "came clean on who he really was," identifying himself as Ryan Jordan.[20][21][22][23][24] Other Wikipedia editors questioned Essjay on his Wikipedia talk page about the apparent discrepancy between his new Wikia profile and his previously claimed credentials.[3][25] Essjay posted a detailed explanation in response to the first inquiry, stating that:

“ There are a number of trolls, stalkers, and psychopaths who wander around Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects looking for people to harass, stalk, and otherwise ruin the lives of (several have been arrested over their activities here)...You will eventually say something that will lead back to you, and the stalkers will find it...I decided to be myself, to never hide my personality, to always be who I am, but to utilize disinformation with regard to what I consider unimportant details: age, location, occupation, etc..." [3] ”

He later commented on his Wikipedia user page about having fooled Schiff by "doing a good job playing the part."[14]


Essjay : Wikia : "I did it to evade the trolls and stalkers" :: Durova : Wikia-hosted Wpinvestigations-l : "We did it to evade the trolls and stalkers"

Seriously, nothing was learned. Correct?

Jimmy Wales has to be either the stupidest man or the worst pathological liar on the planet. I'm going with pathological liar. It's as if he can't HELP himself.

Greg
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 5th December 2007, 1:30pm) *

Jimmy Wales has to be either the stupidest man or the worst pathological liar on the planet. I'm going with pathological liar. It's as if he can't HELP himself.

Greg


Maybe they should found a Pathological Liars Club with Annual Picnics-Luaus, DeTestimonial Roasts, and Public Exhibitions of the Liar's Art —

Oh wait …

Jonny cool.gif
Moulton
QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 5th December 2007, 12:30pm) *
Jimmy Wales has to be either the stupidest man or the worst pathological liar on the planet. I'm going with pathological liar. It's as if he can't HELP himself.

I don't believe either of your disjunctive alternatives, Greg.

To my mind, it's more likely that Jimbo (like most people) harbors some inaccurate beliefs. Kelly Martin suggested he was in denial (presumably meaning that he was failing to examine the evidence for and against his beliefs in a sufficiently diligent, conscientious, or scientific manner).

That's my theory, Greg. I may be deluding myself in believing it, but until some better evidence comes along, it seems to be the most appropriate model to characterize Jimbo's beliefs and practices.
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 2:00pm) *

QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 5th December 2007, 12:30pm) *

Jimmy Wales has to be either the stupidest man or the worst pathological liar on the planet. I'm going with pathological liar. It's as if he can't HELP himself.


I don't believe either of your disjunctive alternatives, Greg.

To my mind, it's more likely that Jimbo (like most people) harbors some inaccurate beliefs. Kelly Martin suggested he was in denial (presumably meaning that he was failing to examine the evidence for and against his beliefs in a sufficiently diligent, conscientious, or scientific manner).

That's my theory, Greg. I may be deluding myself in believing it, but until some better evidence comes along, it seems to be the most appropriate model to characterize Jimbo's beliefs and practices.


Okay, we have one vote for the Maxwell Razor Theory Of Jimbo Mechanics.

You may say that you're a dreamer,
But I think you're the only one here.

Jonny cool.gif
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 5th December 2007, 12:30pm) *
Jimmy Wales has to be either the stupidest man or the worst pathological liar on the planet. I'm going with pathological liar. It's as if he can't HELP himself.


All three (and it is three, including the can't help self). Being stupid isn't the same thing as being unintelligent. Arrogance can shut off the clue-factor, in anyone. Esp. if they haven't a strong character to cope with flattering unction. Einstein had a great quote, Ill look up. Here it is:

QUOTE
‘The only way to escape the personal corruption of praise is to go on working. One is tempted to stop and listen to it. The only thing is to turn away and go on working. Work. There is nothing else.’

— Albert Einstein

Also, JImbo's response isn't going unnoticed, even by non-Wikipedians.

QUOTE

Communications Crisis: Wikipedia Woes - Gay Marketing Magazine, Wednesday, December 05, 2007

I worry that Jimbo Wales does not adequately grasp the key elements of PR communications crisis management though. His response to all this? An extremely glib "I advise the world to relax a notch or two".

Ouch.
Jonny Cache

¡¡¡ Man Durova Bored !!!

I do like the cool new avatar though …

Jonny cool.gif
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 2:00pm) *

To my mind, it's more likely that Jimbo (like most people) harbors some inaccurate beliefs. Kelly Martin suggested he was in denial (presumably meaning that he was failing to examine the evidence for and against his beliefs in a sufficiently diligent, conscientious, or scientific manner).
Actually, denial is a psychological process that can serve to render aspects of intellectual capacity null and void. "Failing to examine scientifically" isn't the issue. "In denial" means it (something) is too painful or hard to look at, and is shut off from perception. Your suppositions presume human behavior and thought processes to be rational. This is where you are getting the large error margin. Emotions play a huge role in allowing the implementation of intelligence to take place. Ergo, despite intelligence, a person impacted by denial (or emotional upset, etc) can make highly stupid choices.

Denial is harder to see than emotional upset, because it's main tool is defence against unwanted information, and the person in denial is by definition unawares. Basically a person in denial would rather eradicate the messenger than admit the message. Everyone has a bit of denial, but it predominates for others. Jimbo probably had a weakness for denial, and he's allowed his fame to inflate himself far too much, to the extent that he's completely obnoxious around anyone he's not afraid of impressing - not to mention making unwise business choices.

You can't pull someone out of denial. It gets dealt with when it causes the person so many problems (from shoving things under the rug) that they have a huge life crisis,and have no choice to reevaluate (divorce, business failure, etc).

We've seen lots of textbook denial in the Durova case. From her defenders, but most significantly from Durova. It's sad and unsettling to watch. I'd feel sorry for her, if she weren't so destructive to others and unapologetic about it.
Moulton
To me, it's more perplexing than saddening.

It's perplexing because I have so little understanding of the psychology of erratic leadership (notwithstanding the ubiquity of the phenomenon).

One thing I admire about Jimbo is that he's not afraid to fail.

Perhaps that's his primary method of learning.

It also explains why those who predict his failure (e.g. Larry Sanger) have abandoned Jimbo's ship to set a different course.

To Larry's credit, he is not laboring to cause the failure of Wikipedia.
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 3:23pm) *

To me, it's more perplexing than saddening.

It's perplexing because I have so little understanding of the psychology of erratic leadership (notwithstanding the ubiquity of the phenomenon).

One thing I admire about Jimbo is that he's not afraid to fail.

Perhaps that's his primary method of learning.

It also explains why those who predict his failure (e.g. Larry Sanger) have abandoned Jimbo's ship to set a different course.

To Larry's credit, he is not laboring to cause the failure of Wikipedia.


One of the factors that makes con games so eternally pervasive in human bound-to-do-it-again-and-again-for-ages is a constant supply of marks, and one of the marks of a mark is a stubborn denial that some human beings really can be precisely the way that they obviously are.

Jon Awbrey
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 1:23pm) *

To me, it's more perplexing than saddening.

It's perplexing because I have so little understanding of the psychology of erratic leadership (notwithstanding the ubiquity of the phenomenon).
It is textbook erratic leadership. Read "The Smartest Guys in the Room" about the Enron scandal. Denial, arrogance, and hubris can tear lives and companies and countries asunder. Old, old story.

It is perplexing because it is counter-intuitive that intelligent people would behave so.
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 1:23pm) *

One thing I admire about Jimbo is that he's not afraid to fail.
Sure he is. That's why one single word of dissention or criticism (even very useful criticism) is completely unwelcome. Someone truly fearless of failure would be more supple and flexible. And therefore less likely to fail.
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 1:23pm) *

Perhaps that's his primary method of learning.
Yes, but not how you are implying. If he doesn't like information, he rejects it and damns the person who spoke it as an evildoer. That's textbook denial.
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 1:23pm) *

It also explains why those who predict his failure (e.g. Larry Sanger) have abandoned Jimbo's ship to set a different course.
He had to leave. Jimbo doesn't like to hear what he doesn't like to hear. Larry wanted ads on Wikipedia and to create something substantive and sustainable. Jimbo thought this was dumb, didn't like being confronted, so Larry was out (principle: dont argue with your boss, even if you are right).
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 1:23pm) *

To Larry's credit, he is not laboring to cause the failure of Wikipedia.
Larry is smart enough to know that insulting a former employer looks cheap. And he probably is clear that Wikipedia has a shelf life, with such unsustainable, unprofessional (and unethical) practices. I mean, "duh".
Moulton
By failure, I mean undeniable failure.

Most people wince at criticism, even when they know it's coming from an authoritative source. But he plows ahead even in the face of plausible criticism. He plows ahead until failure is a realized outcome, not just a prediction. That tells me he values direct experience over analytical reasoning or model-based reasoning.
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